Quote from Scawen :

If the width is 3x the height (or more) it assumes you are using a three screen setup (EDIT: and in that case confines the interface to the centre screen).

I think that is now outdated but I think it might work if it was changed to 4x instead of 3x.

Then it would still detect 3 screen setup if you connected 3 monitors with a 4:3 aspect ratio (12:3 overall -> assume 3 screens). But in the case of your setup it would not assume 3 screens and would display a 16:9 interface.

Quote from nacim :

Hello Scawen,
Thanks for the insight. If you could add this to a test patch I would gladly try it.

I've tried that small change in a test patch now.
It also includes an experimental VR test so it's not the 'official' test patch yet, but you can find it here:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1954788#post1954788

Thanks for the logs. I see LFS resolution adjustment is set to 100% (the "RT size" line near the start is the same as the "size" line near the end).

In the case with SteamVR set to 100% your pre-distortion render target size is 4032x2240. The reason these are bigger than the physical screen resolution is because of the distortion: all parts of the render target further out from the eye centre points are deliberately squashed when they are mapped to the screens inside the headset, to compensate for the lens distortion.

If LFS was set to 225% at this time, that would multiply both X and Y by 1.5 so the render target in-game would be 6048x3360 which is really a massive image to render. It's interesting that you say that doesn't seem to harm performance much. I suppose the graphics card is very powerful and has a lot of memory.

So it looks like the issues really come from somewhere else. Probably the way I've implemented the D3D9->D3D11 texture sharing.

I've tried a small change in 0.6U10 and would like to know if it affects your frame dropping problems at all. It now avoids the use of a thread to submit the frame. The thread was meant to allow LFS to continue processing without waiting for the render to finish. But maybe it causes other problems. It's worth a quick test.


[EDIT: removed link to U10 patch - not recommended]

Changes from 0.6U9 to 0.6U10:

VR test:
- Different method of submitting frame to VR
- Avoiding the use of a thread to submit image
- It's possible this may avoid dropped frames

View setup:
- LFS now assumes 3 screens when aspect ratio is 4:1
- previously assumed 3 screens when aspect ratio was 3:1
- this improves support for ultrawide monitors

Some more updated translations - thank you translators!


DOWNLOAD:

IF YOU ALREADY HAVE 0.6U:
PATCH 0.6U TO 0.6U10 (SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVE)

[EDIT: removed link to U10 patch - not recommended]

Last edited by Scawen, Tue 7 Apr 2020, 07:45.

Quote from Drifteris :

I've tried assetto corsa running 80Hz mode and it runs so smooth even with many cars. While in LFS even when fps counter is showing 80fps it doesn't even feel like 80fps
and then gets worse when it drops and stutters.

There is a problem with the public version of LFS in VR on some computers.

In fact there are two problems, and it seems to be worse on some computers than others.

1) LFS is rendered in D3D9 then a shared texture is used to update D3D11 render targets. Some code is used to try to time that well, and it seems to work quite well on some computers but I believe it is worse on others, judging by the descriptions.

2) LFS uses 100 Hz physics update and these steps do not correspond exactly with the refresh rate of any VR headsets.

In the best case, on many computers, only problem (2) is a real problem. In this case, the view looks quite good when looking straight ahead, but you can see a slight stutter when you look sideways. Different people might be more sensitive to that - you can see the stutter of the scenery, the 100 Hz physics updates being rendered at 90 Hz or 75 Hz or whatever.

In the worst case, on some other computers, apparently there is a worse stuttering problem. I think this is related to problem (1) which has now been eliminated in the current development version by using D3D11 for the main LFS render.

Quote from mbutcher :

There are a number of possible reasons that you only get stability at 80Hz. Your super sampling value is too high. Set it to 115% at the very most for best results in LFS. You're right that the LFS physics engine is out of sync with your headset so you will get some noticeable stutter when cornering. The halving of your perceived frame-rate is an effect called asynchronous time-warp (Oculus term), where frames are being interpolated every other frame to try and reduce any effects of cyber sickness.

Drop your super-sampling value and try again.

I tried that and even 50% supersampling (on LFS) and it doesn't change much. Getting huge frame drops near other cars especially. dynamic reflections off and x4 and no difference. Dropping from 80fps to 65-45 causing huge stuttering. If only driving on 80fps wasn't bad enough. And my PC is capable of running VR games.

Also the "monitor view" setting if none selected then it causes lagging and frames drop aswell. so that's that.

Using valve index it seems that only 80Hz option is stable and kinda keeps 80fps on LFS. 90Hz seems to drop to 45fps, 120hz to 60fps and 144hz to 72. Not sure why this half the frame things happen.

Also i'm not sure whether i've used 144hz monitor too much and now 80hz VR looks laggy or it's just not optimized as good. I do understand that physics run at 100fps but the game seems smoother on higher frames even if there is some sort of frames ghosting going on or not.

Super Sampling doesn't seem to change much aswell in my case so i just set it to 225%

Quote from MusicRacerAu :

Hi.. needing something to pass the time during this whole corona madness...

Hey there! Crazy times indeed... LFS is pretty immersive with wheel (and more so with VR), but it can be pretty additive and entertaining with keyboard/mouse. Most of us started off that way many moon ago

Quote from Pistolero 667 :

With next level V3 motion, Valve index VR headset, Fanatec Direct drive wheel and buttkiker, The formula BMW on Blackwood is just amazing!

Hello and welcome! Glad to hear that you're having so much fun in LFS with your impressive setup.

Quote from fairuz13 :

...just stopping by and saying hi

Hello!

Quote from N2OGamingMaster :

Hi, I am new here...

Hello and welcome!

Quote from Daniel G.B :

hi all...

Hi!

Hi,

I'm new on LFS. Excuse my bad english, i'm French. I'm very happy to join this community of LFS.

I'm very impressed by LFS. For me it gives by far the most realistic feeling. Have tried many sims like rfactor 2 (best of the others), Asseto corsa and competitione, Raceroom etc. but always frustrating and never get this sense of inertia, control and realistic feeling delivered by LFS.

I'm really fall instantly in love like someone who look for many years for it's soulmate and finally met her!! :)Same thing with LFS.

I initially build my rig for the other sims mentionned but i never expected to have this feeling in LFS!!

With next level V3 motion, Valve index VR headset, Fanatec Direct drive wheel and buttkiker, The formula BMW on Blackwood is just amazing! Never had this immersion, feeling this level of connection with tarmac, even by the mainstream so-called sims.

Many Thanks to developpers. Respect

Last edited by Pistolero 667, Mon 30 Mar 2020, 08:00.

I can't start LFS anymore. LFS close after display view calibration.

The openvr.log contains following information

The deb.log contains this data

Today I updated the PiTool. Afterwards the firmware of the headset was updated automatically, too. By the way, SteamVR home works without any problems. I haven't tested any other games yet.

I already rename the cfg.txt. After that I can start LFS. But when I configure 3D again, I got the same issue.

Does anyone else use the pimax 8k and have updated the pitool?

Best VR implementation, because the game is made for Index (but not only), their top-of-the-line virtual reality headset. Valve is leading the industry into the future of gaming and many will follow. Once again they are raising the bar into new heights.

Quote from nikopdr :

... even movement is similar to other "adventure" games where you have to point and click to move.

It has 4 different movement styles:
Blink (Teleport), Shift (Teleport), Continuous Head & Continuous Hand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9Nj1lYyQmI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFjtVmka54E

Last edited by Evolution_R, Wed 11 Mar 2020, 19:45.

Quote from Evolution_R :

I'm talking about Half-Life Alyx - https://store.steampowered.com/app/546560/HalfLife_Alyx/

What's revolutionary and ahead of its time in this? It's nice to look at but comparing gameplay mechanics etc to other VR games they haven't really invented much, even movement is similar to other "adventure" games where you have to point and click to move. Also considering that VR headsets weren't even being developed for consumer usage until early 2010s, I don't think it was started right after they had finished with HL2 and it's addons

(sorry for offtopic)

For me it's never too late, better late than never.

It took Valve 13 years to make another ahead-of-its-time-masterpiece Half-Life game.

And surely I do believe Live for Speed will go again ahead-of-its-time with the updated physics, graphics and VR.

Last edited by Evolution_R, Tue 10 Mar 2020, 10:00.

Quote from Meseplayer :

Hi Nacim,

You seem to have a nice driving setup, for sure not the cheapest;-)
The third screen is the best in my mind, but it also would have been nice to see a screen (or even a video) from inside a car, both standard and open wheeler, maybe when entering a curve, how You see the apex and curbes?

Thanks, sadly it's not my personal setup but a simrig I built at work (racing game studio, we must have a simrig ). Still, I can go play whenever I wish outside work hours.

Well, apexes are sure way easier to see than with a 16:9 or my 21:9, but can still be blocked by the A pillar on some rare occasions. On LFS it's not really a problem, I see this more often on Dirt Rally 2.0.
I attached a quick photo I got from my mate trying to survive with a Group B Lancia Delta S4 I'll try to make some shots with LFS when I can

If you really need the maximum visibility in corners, a VR headseat is perfect. Still, we mostly use the screen as LFS act weirdly with our HTC Vive, head movement have ghosting that Assetto Corsa doesn't have. @Scawen do you have any idea on how I can fix this btw ?

Quote from Pasci :

@nacim: Which seat do you use? Looks interesting. Homemade or a purchased solution? :-)

It's the Fanatec RennSport Cockpit V2 with the Sparco Pro 2000 seat so no, not a homemade solution

This thread came at a good time. I'm also considering getting a 49" monitor because I would like the option to use a monitor setup from time to time, rather than having to use VR, even for casual racing sessions. I do not get on well with traditional multi-monotor setups, so I'm interested in trying an extra-wide. It's a big expense so I'm interested to get opinions from people who have used them. Rony, nacim, how do you get on with yours?

Last edited by mbutcher, Sun 2 Feb 2020, 17:11.

A reminder - server will be password protected 1 hour before qualifying start to keep not knowing crowded server jumpers out of way,pass will be always the same: green

Some historic stats:
Last race won by: GenR uNite
Last FOX race won by: Litti (202nd RTFR - AS Clasic Boot Chicanes) / Finland - 4 wins in row
Most FOX race wins: Botsi - 2 wins (Finland - 7 wins)
Last Rockingham race won by: Litti VR (208th RTFR - FBM @ RO International Long) / Finland - 5 wins in row
Most Rockingham race wins: MareX #88 & GenR uNite & Ardeeé - 2 wins (Finland - 9 wins)
Current rating leader: S1DUS*Botsi (+2 points)

2020 standings after 1 of 25 races:
GenR uNite - 13
B2ﾏ FasT - 13
Teho | Ngottini - 11
Event rating,standings and other statistics

Server link: Ronys Tuesdays Fun Race

Last edited by Eclipsed, Mon 20 Jan 2020, 15:39. Reason : Gracias,sinjor!

Quote from Evolution_R :

Yes... and DOF too.

I wouldn't still make an effect that varies per person... For example it's hard to see DOF for me at all, even though i try to concentrate on the surroundings of where i focus. for me DOF has always been a game breaking distraction rather than immersion as usually they end up simulating a near sighted person with 100-200 meters of vision, if there is going to be dof it should atleast be a toggle option

Motion blur is another subject, but this is also hard to replicate with monitor becase you need to have a fixed focus point, that usually is the center of the screen and it's unadjustable, unlike your own eyes when you can decide the focus point you're looking into etc.

These things imo translate quite badly to a 2d screen, and i would assume same problem exists in VR headsets since these monitors cant read where your eyes are looking at(and hopefully never will ) which results the desired effects to appear fake-looking and to effects what you would see in photography rather than in real life.

Well the index is long gone but I had huge issue on my msi "gaming vr" laptop running it. I had to downgrade gpu drivers and even like that it was not crazy flawless. Changing the framerate would kill it black screen all the time. I still think it is a shame for the Index not to support 100Hz native and MSI got me mad too. The index also run full size dp with no official mini dp adaptor. As a consequence everybody blames the afaptators... Anyway I loved the experience and I will try again when the time comes.

if your VR headset is not 100hz you are going to see a mismatch of physics/fps, thats why the "stuters" or whatever one calls it.
im on a index and the best is to use 144hz, but hard to maintain the proper fps.
LFS needs a revamp to properly work in VR because of the hz.
At the moment its impossible to run it like assetto corsa. And everyone that doesnt feel the "stutters" is just not paying proper attention. Look to the sides when driving, its better to see it that way.

@loopingz Sorry but I dont understand the difficulty in running the Index at 80/90/120 or 144. You just go into the steam vr settings and select the prefered refresh rate.

In my experience, after long tests: The only acceptable refresh rate in LFS is 144hz, everything else has the annoying mismatch between physics/fps.
Having said that, good luck trying to run LFS at 144hz because the cpuframetime is hardly bellow 6.6ms which is the maximum time to render a frame at 144hz. GPU is practically idle. 1070/i7 6700k here.
A real shame, LFS could really show what 144hz VR is.

On a side note: curious that Richard Burns Rally also suffers from this problem in VR (vr mod made by kegetys) - everything bellow 144 is not smooth.

I want to try VR so much now!

Quote from GT4_PL :

...
Scawen when fix optimized for VR? and 100fps limit to 150fps limit physics?

...

iirc, Scawen mentioned that among the tire physics update he would like to segregate physics and graphics in different thread, allowing a largely greater optimized VR experience than the current 100Hz used.
This implies aswell the timescale with a 10ms unit currently, and not 1ms as we may expect in a coming future (drag racing fans on the starting line )

Let's first expect a great progress regarding SO 2.0 (Eric, do not be afraid, you can show it to us ) and Scawen lightings tests before having Scawen getting hardcore on the above topic ^^

i play newest version 0.6U9 tested, use Valve Index set 90hz.

Look better resolution quality adjust 150-200% enough and 4x antialiasing. Tried 8x see no different a bit drop fps. 4x better stable fps 90 fps smooth.
Still no optimized there are input lag a bit tearing. I tried set lowest 25% resolution adjust quality so same input lag tearing, i mean frame rate mismatch.

I tried set to 120hz VR. Weird bad optimized input lag than 90hz, becuase LFS engine physics is 100 fps limit?. Because Index have 144hz.

Scawen when fix optimized for VR? and 100fps limit to 150fps limit physics?

Sorry my bad english.

my specs:


I played BONEWORKS VR so great optimized and smooth.

Last edited by GT4_PL, Wed 18 Dec 2019, 17:26.

Quote from Whiskey :

That's really low fps, even for a normal screen. I guess you could get much better experience if you manage to get them higher.

The video itself reports to be 60 fps, but to be honest I got pretty uncomfortable watching it, it's not smooth at all.

It's not smooth only at the beginning. Later on it gets better.

It's pretty hilarious (6:30) that you can just get out of the car and walk around it. I don't have a VR set and I just wonder - how many other racing sims allow you to do that?

0.6U test first time use Valve Index VR and full tracking test.

Quote from bobloblaw :

I’m pretty sure LFS uses device ID as reported by the device to identify wheels, so it’s strange that you’re having that problem. I would take a long look at your config files, possibly back then up and start from scratch.

When using more than one wheel on the same computer, LFS will detect all of the buttons from all of the wheels, as if they are buttons on the other wheels, for example I can press all the buttons on the first wheel, and they register on the first seat, as buttons 1-20-something. If I press all of the buttons on another seat they will continue to register on the first seat as well, as a buttons 20-40 something... and so on through any wheel attached to the machine.

While scawen fixed this in the beginning, so it sorts out all the buttons correctly, I suspect there is still a subroutine, or line of code that is passing button commands to the wrong seat/instance.

Quote from bobloblaw :

I would hold off on planning upgrades, as the system requirements will change with the next lighting update.

This is also why I am waiting... lack of cash is just primary reason.

Quote from bobloblaw :

Have you ever considered running one or two motion platform rigs, possibly with VR? Lots of upfront costs but probably less headaches and more interest and $.

Yes, but if I cannot afford $6k of new PCs there is no way I can afford $10-$30K of motion sim and vr equipment. And then I have to redo the inside of the trailer, and find and pay for new storage location for the stuff I remove from the trailer...

I’m pretty sure LFS uses device ID as reported by the device to identify wheels, so it’s strange that you’re having that problem. I would take a long look at your config files, possibly back then up and start from scratch.

I would hold off on planning upgrades, as the system requirements will change with the next lighting update.

Have you ever considered running one or two motion platform rigs, possibly with VR? Lots of upfront costs but probably less headaches and more interest and $.