The online racing simulator
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Scawen
Developer
Quote from Pasci :Would it be possible to add a shadow to the displayed text for "pit lane speed limit" and the arrow?

Options - Display - Drop shadows : [yes]

Quote from jamesd256 :Maybe should be a separate thread, but it would be great if you could assign a button to recentre the headset tracking.

Pressing F8, then using space is not good for your racing. One button push on the wheel would be ideal.

I think this command does that: /vr reset_headset

You can assign text commands to keys and wheel buttons in Options - Controls - CTRL+ / ALT+
jamesd256
S1 licensed
Well it turns out there were a few factors in the blocky image:

Now the patch is installed, I am able to run at 225% rendering. 8x AA helps too. But there was still something not quite right. The shadows of the trees on the track looked bad still, but the overall image was very close now.

Finally I had another play with changing the custom resolution in SteamVR settings - still learning about all this, and playing with this in native Steam games had no effect for me, but with LFS via OpenVR, it does. This can be seen by the render target resolution in the view options going up with the increase. So I found I could go up to 200% with my Geforce 780 before things started going wrong.

With all this set, I am pleased to report, the image is really good now. Now things are clear, I am able to really see what stereo mirrors does for the realism, and for me it's huge - kudos to the devs for being the only sim that has this.

Personally I am not too bothered about licensed tracks and cars for now. In fact, I specifically want to learn in road cars. I can't relate to a ton of down force or cars that do 80mph in second gear.

For this reason, having played Project Cars, Raceroom and LFS, LFS is the best, especially for VR. So I wish the devs luck in reviving the momentum of the title!
jamesd256
S1 licensed
This looks promising, because there needs to be improvement in resolution and anti-aliasing for sure.

I am very confident about this because I am now playing Raceroom at 1440p with 1.25 supersampling (Riftcat settings) and 8x AA and FSAA on in game, and the image is beautiful, so if anyone says Riftcat can't look good, they are wrong (as long as your phone has the pixel density and bandwidth, I use an LG G6, which is perfect for VR).I am seeing no compression artifacts, and no lag either.

My first choice was LFS though, and I still want it work, as there is so much to love about this game compared the mainsream titles. Really hoping I can get it looking as good. Will try the patch tonight, thanks for the heads up.
nikopdr
S3 licensed
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185-Test-Patch-U5%3A-Fixes---VR-updates

Have you tried this test patch? Might be a possible solution to blurry image, but can't say much at all as i don't own a VR set. But it sounds like the resolution is just low, which supersampling will fix. Smile
jamesd256
S1 licensed
Thanks for the reply. I would have said that the bandwidth limit leads to compression artifacts / blocks rather than pixellation. I'm getting 24Mbps over 5Ghz wifi, and 14Mbps is roughly enough for 1080p. On USB 3, I can push to 40Mbps, but it doesn't improve the image much at 1080p.

Steam Home room looks great, and pans/scrolls really smooth, so I know it's not Vridge.

I just tried Project Cars Pagani edition, and had the most visceral, immersive couple of laps I could have hoped for - excellent, and no gimmick.

This proves that the resolution issues are nothing to do with Vridge settings, and that LFS fails to perform like Project cars or steam home. I would be happy to include grabs from the phone by photographing the screen - the difference is massive - impossible to read menu text or view race distance in LFS, but Project Cars I can do both just fine.

I'm posting this in the interest of solving this - I want to experience LFS VR properly.
redbot_
S3 licensed
The stream resolution can be set in VRidge settings. The pixelation is due to the limitations in bandwidth. You can try to increase the bandwidth from Vridge settings. But usually it is limited by how much your phone can handle. Even if you use USB 3 card, the phone may not support USB 3, so you may be getting lower speeds.

Reduce the framerate if still seeing pixelated. It's a compromise, but using a phone as VR headset is always gimmicky. Don't expect smoothness anywhere near a real VR headset. I couldn't manage it to drive anywhere near how you would on a screen, as the latency and stuttering is too high. But, It's nice to have the experience Smile
jamesd256
S1 licensed
I don't know why but it's working now Smile

Thanks for the suggestions anyway. FYI it works with NVENC over wifi, but obviously better on USB 3 as you say.

I bought a USB 3 PCIe card, as my Mobo only has 2.0. The issue is the phone regularly drops out of tethering mode on USB, which kind of kills the fun.

Another question though, do you know how to set the resolution LFS sends to the VR view? The image is pretty pixellated. In the steam home room, there is much higher resolution with much less pixellation. I can't set the resolution in the screen options as it complains this is only for full screen, but VR must be used with the app windowed
Ped7g
S3 licensed
https://www.lfs.net/downloads

OS requirements
LFS works on both 32 and 64 bit Windows (XP, Vista, 7, 8 and 10).

Minimum computer requirements
2 GHz CPU, 256 MB memory, DirectX 9 capable 3D graphics card.

Recommended computer requirements
3 GHz CPU, 1024 MB memory,
3D graphics card with at least 512MB memory.
LFS is mostly CPU dependent due to its physics calculations.
A full multiplayer grid requires a fast CPU more than a fast GPU.

I'm not sure, if they updated it since new Blackwood and Rockingham versions, or these are still with the old tracks on mind. Never mind, I actually read them just now, and this "minimum" can't be right for the revamped Blackwood, probably even the "oldest" revamp of Westwood will give hard time to such PC.

Then again, there's new graphics engine in the works, which will basically move the whole game like ~1-3 generations ahead in the PC-game-tech world, so what is now minimum to run new Blackwood, may be not enough after the next big patch. Although if you are already running new Blackwood smoothly, the extra performance hit of new patch may be not that big... (who knows, there will certainly be some period of test patches before the final release, when you will be able to test).

But I bet Scawen want to stay strong in VR, so I guess the "minimum" specs coming with VR headsets should cover LFS even after the patch. Those are often quite powerful machines, so for non-VR you can use even something weaker, but if you can get those VR minimum specs, you should be safe with LFS for next couple of years.
nikopdr
S3 licensed
Quote from SimulatorRental.com :The rest should all be Caesar pizza products... any skins made with VR on them, will only be used at car shows and birthdays... or maybe for the AI to drive...

I expect ADESA skin to be black text on white background so it can be color changed. Hopefully in the future, LFS, will have a color pallet value allocated as a background color (clear), that can change without changing the whole graphics color. The smaller ADESA group will likely want to change cars... oh well only need the one skin.

Ok no problem, I can make the VR skins as extra Smile so 3 left all with caesar pizza and ADESA, am i correct?
SimulatorRental.com
S3 licensed
The rest should all be Caesar pizza products... any skins made with VR on them, will only be used at car shows and birthdays... or maybe for the AI to drive...

I expect ADESA skin to be black text on white background so it can be color changed. Hopefully in the future, LFS, will have a color pallet value allocated as a background color (clear), that can change without changing the whole graphics color. The smaller ADESA group will likely want to change cars... oh well only need the one skin.
Flotch
S3 licensed
VR ... Wink
progress reports !
Scawen
Developer
Test Patch U5:

VR:

FIX: Head tracking / mirrors wrong if car leaned with horizon lock

LAN:

Easier to set up LAN race: local IP address is shown on host screen
You can enter the local network computer name instead of IP address

Misc:

FIX: Rare manual shift at high speed to 1st/rev during auto shift
Most translations updated - thank you translators!

Download:

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185
Ped7g
S3 licensed
I don't think so from market point of view, but I'm not an expert, it's just my gut feeling that they will need some SW incentive to even sell this.

Anyway, that's not your problem, but you can still check what *you* can get out of this for yourself... Smile
Like asking at least for one free unit for testing is probably no brainer. Smile Getting even some exposure in some way may be nice too. If they don't push any SW lineup, you can very likely even hijack it, just releasing some youtube videos/etc at proper timing with good keywords may bring some extra exposure then. Maybe like at least asking some of the people previously testing LFS VR (Gamer's muscle?) to do another check how LFS works with "Index", to give them nudge that LFS still exists.

Also by "Valve's time" definition, Index may come out just a while around your new graphics update, so you can get probably some "synergy" kick out of it. Although I wouldn't want to be the person trying to synchronize two events from Valve's and Scavier's timelines... Big grin
Scawen
Developer
Quote from MagicFr :testing this weekend Smile

Thanks. I've noticed a bug - when your car is sideways or upside-down, you will find in VR that moving left/right/up/down has the wrong effect. Also the mirror views are messed up in that case. The more sideways, the worse the effect.

I've fixed it in my version and hope to release another minor test patch tomorrow.

Quote from Pasci :I noticed a translation error for the Deutsch/German translation file. The string "3a_smallall" should be "Alle" (all) and not "Beide" (both).

Thanks, maybe I'll change this myself if a translator doesn't notice it.

Quote from Pasci :@Scawen: Perhaps you can add a "simple" extension for LAN multiplayer by supporting hostnames for connection instead only IP addresses?

I think what I can do is show on the host screen, the local IP address(es) so it's easier to know what to type in on the guests. Would that help, so you don't need to run cmd and type ipconfig? I've done that in the development version already so can probably copy it over.
Ped7g
S3 licensed
Quote from RC-Maus :+ many off my steam friends never heard off LFS.

@Scawen: as Valve is preparing to launch their own VR headset, maybe you can check with them, how badly they would want to go out of their common legal work to meet your needs for some kind of inclusion...

I think I see like more issues with this (IMO it's very unlikely this will work for both sides), but who knows...
From the "leaked" info it doesn't seem Valve has any strong SW lineup for it, which I'm a bit puzzled with, how they want to push that HW, and maybe they can at least somehow add demo version as some kind of "check if it works with this", etc... even if you don't enter steam directly.

Also it means you will have to check VR version against new HW soon, maybe they can send you some unit at least. Smile
Scawen
Developer
Thanks for the feedback.

Quote from AndyG :One other thought - are your shadows done in the MSAA pass? They seem to be the main culprits of the remaining distant shimmer issues. I know from experience though that this can be a very difficult problem to solve, depending on how your renderer is structured.

Do you mean the car shadows? I'll have a quick go at switching on anisotropic filtering for them. I've been experimenting with that on the new shadow system where there is a similar problem (but worse). Anisotropic filtering helps though I haven't yet dealt with the well known issue that comes up at the seam between two cascades. I can fix it by a brute force method but I'll be having a look at the other two documented solutions.

EDIT: I've tried that on the public version car shadows and it is helpful, in VR and not. So I'll include that. The car shadows will use the user setting for anisotropic filtering. There are no cascades to mess things up.

Quote from MagicFr :Antialiasing x4 or x8 made now visual change for me.

Yes that is hard to see, I managed to see the difference along the top of a light object against a dark background. It got rid of some faint ripples that were there with 4x. But as you say the supersampling was a lot more useful.

EDIT: Attached a screenshot. The top of that wall across the middle of the picture is a good example of the difference between 4xAA and 8xAA.

Quote from nikopdr :Hey, there's a small glitch with the replays and the filtered view: when you speed up replays over 8x or above, the view glitches out and starts spazzing around depending how low the filter time is.

Good find, thanks.
Last edited by Scawen, .
nikopdr
S3 licensed
Hey, there's a small glitch with the replays and the filtered view: when you speed up replays over 8x or above, the view glitches out and starts spazzing around depending how low the filter time is. I guess it's mostly dependent on fps as single player replays have this effect after 16x speedup, but just pointing this out so everyone with a VR set knows to avoid speeding the replays too much in cockpit/custom view Tongue
AndyG
S3 licensed
Quote from AndyG :... LFS will be VR class leading in my opinion (because of the way you've implemented proper 3D mirrors primarily).

A bit off topic, but one other thing you're missing perhaps is a sharpening facility, which can help a lot with current generation (low resolution!) VR HMDs. In Project CARS 2 we implemented the SweetFX Luma Sharpen filter, which is available under the MIT license.
Scawen
Developer
Test Patch U3 with some more VR updates.

Resolution adjustment range now 0.25 to 2.25 (0.5 squared to 1.5 squared)

FIX: Free view FOV was wrong after entering VR in free view
FIX: Names above cars looked wrong in Pimax headsets

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185
bouba
Demo licensed
Not related to VR, but in the past we had the new persistent tire marks feature. It's great for immersion but it's a horrible distraction for hotlapping and driving consistently. It's mostly a problem in multiplayer where noobs/crashers drive off track or drift all over the place and leave huge tire marks which accumulate over the races and the result is a track that's painted in them. It'd be great to have the option to enable or disable persistent tire marks.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from AndyG :I'm not convinced it's the case here. In 2D mode if I turn VSYNC on (which is 60fps for my screen), it runs perfectly smoothly. Similarly, 300fps with VSYNC off is smooth.

I still think it may be the same issue. It just depends what you call severe. The 100Hz physics displayed at 90Hz issue can be quite bad when you look sideways. A definite problem.

You can see the same effect with 60Hz VSync on a monitor, it just doesn't look as bad as it does in VR. To try it, select a low FOV then drive along beside something big and nearby, e.g. pit garages, looking sideways. You can see the edges seem to be jittering along.

Trouble is it's a major graphics and physics engine redesign to avoid this, there's no quick solution and for sure it's not something I can do in the current public version, I would only do it in the new development version. It's too big a job to code up twice in the two separate diverged code bases.
AndyG
S3 licensed
Superb, thank you. I will test this as soon as I can, hopefully later tonight.

Can I push my luck slightly and ask for your input on the thread below please? If you can sort that, together with the AA/SS additions, LFS will be VR class leading in my opinion (because of the way you've implemented proper 3D mirrors primarily).

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93165-Severe-Lack-of-Smoothness-in-VR
Test Patch U16: Updates and fixes
Scawen
Developer
WARNING: THIS IS A TEST

THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN NEW TYRE PHYSICS OR THE NEW GRAPHICS SYSTEM

PLEASE TEST BEFORE YOU POST


Hello Racers,

Here is a new test patch: 0.6U16

The changes are listed below.

0.6U16 is compatible with 0.6U

- You CAN connect online with 0.6U
- You CAN play replays from 0.6U

Please back up or rename your LFS.exe from version U so you can revert to it if necessary.


Changes from 0.6U15 to 0.6U16:

Interface:

Key control (4/5/6/7) of free view FOV improved and reaches 2 deg
Prevented auto-repeat on block message and light switching keys

InSim:

IS_CPP FOV can now be used in-car but not smoothed (0 = no change)
IS_CPP Pos is now relative to "Centre view" not the user setting
FIX: It was possible to miss IS_PSF packet after taking over car
FIX: STime in IS_PSF packet was wrong after car was taken over
NOTE: for these fixes the new driver taking over must have U16

Misc:

Added a little more logging about D3D initialisation to deb.log


Changes from 0.6U14 to 0.6U15:

F12 pit instructions:

Pressure change with new tyre no longer counts as SETUP CHANGES
A new 'cancel' option beside the 'setup changes requested' line
Settings that will be adjusted are now shown in light red colour
FIX: rear tyre pressure was limited by front tyre pressure limits
FIX: symmetric pressure/camber request remained after pit stop

Multiplayer:

More accurate transmission of fuel load from local to remote car
Remote car fuel load is now shown in F12 if /showfuel is enabled
Rolling resistance included in catch-up phase of prediction
FIX: Remote cars with worn tread could wrongly get a puncture

Misc:

Auto-repeat key function reinstated (disabled in previous test)
MPR / SPR are now prevented from being named temp_mpr / temp_spr
Free view mode minimum field of view reduced from 10 to 2 degrees
InSim NLP / MCI minimum time interval reduced to 10 ms (was 40 ms)
Mouse X and Y sensitivity (in Axes tab) lower limit reduced to 0.5
FIX: Message MPR_BLANK sometimes displayed when watching live MPR


Changes from 0.6U13 to 0.6U14:

Multiplayer:

Command /showfuel (no/yes) allows remote car fuel load to be seen
Most admin commands with parameter omitted report current value
FIX: Car on pit speed limiter sent maximum packets per second
FIX: Remote car's tyre temperature over 200 appeared black (cold)
FIX: Remote tyre temperatures increased too slowly in skid or spin

MPR debug commands:

/mprlag X simulates online packet delay of X ms (+ no smoothing)
/mprsmooth X (0 or 1) to disable or enable input smoothing

CPU usage display:

In Graphics or Misc options (in-game) click the car icon then 'P'
You can now see CPU usage for Physics, Draw, Prediction, etc.
The "Pred" line shows CPU usage for prediction of remote cars
Prediction time also shows up in an MPR if /mprlag is set

Support for live multiplayer replays:

Replay identified as live when starting to watch an unfinished MPR
Does not exit replay after fast forwarding to current time
Catch up to live position by clicking >| button
Skins can be downloaded while watching a live replay
Save replay while temp_mpr is being viewed - copy instead of rename
Start new mpr while temp_mpr is in use - tries temp_mpr_1 (up to 9)
/mprflush X to flush mpr to file every X seconds (0 = disable)

VR:

Virtual keyboard is shown at dialog height if no dialog is visible
Space bar VR click auto disabled when you type with real keyboard

Misc:

Increased distance for car subobjects to become invisible
FIX: Free view roll is now reported in InSim IS_CPP packet


Changes from 0.6U12 to 0.6U13:

Multiplayer:

Reduced steering glitch each time a position packet is received
- this requires the sender and receiver to have the new version

Position packets are sent more frequently in response to steering
- packet frequency is further increased at higher speeds
- this requires only the sender to have the new version

Maximum packets per second (/pps) has been increased to 12
- this doesn't change much except in specific circumstances
- FIX: /pps command while in multiplayer was not sent to guests
- this requires only the server to have the new version


Changes from 0.6U11 to 0.6U12:

Skin downloads:

Faster skin downloads when joining server (and auto updater)
Slightly faster skin downloads when driver joins race in-game
FIX: Skin downloading could get stuck after a large header

Interface:

Pit speed limit is shown when car speed is below 2/3 of limit
Command /spectv no - prevent selecting TV camera on spectate
Momentary flick to rear view after SHIFT+R is now avoided
Avoided downshift after pressing SHIFT+X to exit free view
In fact any 'key held' function after SHIFT+key is prevented
Some updated translations - thank you translators!


Changes from 0.6U to 0.6U11:

Graphics:

Car shadows now use anisotropic filtering to reduce shimmering

Views:

Horizon lock now has a strength slider option
View filter time maximum value increased to 1 second
FIX: Filtered view went wrong with low filter time + replay speedup

VR:

Updated OpenVR to version 1.10.30
Improved timing of obtaining view each frame
New "Antialiasing" option to select 4x or 8x multisampling
New "Resolution adjustment" slider (also known as supersampling)
Names over cars could fade differently in each eye in Pimax headset
FIX: Head tracking / mirrors wrong if car leaned with horizon lock
FIX: Free view FOV was wrong after entering VR in free view
FIX: Names above cars looked wrong in Pimax headsets
FIX: Some trees looked wrong in Pimax headsets

Controls:

Gearshift debounce setting now applies to all controller buttons
FIX: Rare manual shift at high speed to 1st/rev during auto shift

Force Feedback:

New settings are available under Axes / FF in Options - Controls
FF Steps maximum value is now 10000 (the maximum in DirectInput)
FF Rate is now controlled by a user setting (25 / 50 / 100 Hz)

LAN:

Easier to set up LAN race: local IP address is shown on host screen
You can enter the local network computer name instead of IP address

Interface:

LFS now assumes 3 screens when aspect ratio is 4:1 (was 3:1)
Yellow and blue flags now alternate with RCM or penalty message

More telemetry data for OutSim:

Enable by setting the OutSim Opts value in cfg.txt
All data options can be switched on with the value ff
The new data is documented in a header file OutSimPack.h

Misc:

When LFS is set to close the reason is logged to deb.log file
CAR.lfs scripts are reliably run when user car is spawned or reset
FIX: Memory leak related to threads (most often for skin download)
FIX: Replays from old Westhill before 2015 now marked as obsolete
FIX: Stop-go penalty caused car to get stuck in custom pit stop
FIX: Driver names ending with a lead byte could corrupt text
FIX: Issues with driver names ending with caret character


INSTALLATION:

A FULL version of LFS 0.6U must already be installed


To install the PATCH using the SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVE:

1) Move or save the patch into your main LFS folder
2) Double click the patch to extract it to that folder
3) When you see "Confirm File Replace" select "Yes to All"
4) Now you can start LFS in the normal way

NOTE: You can see if the patch is correctly installed when you run
the program (LFS.exe). At the bottom of the entry screen: 0.6U16


DOWNLOADS:

IF YOU ALREADY HAVE 0.6U:
PATCH 0.6U TO 0.6U16 (SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVE)
www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_PATCH_6U_TO_6U16.exe (1.6 MB)

FOR HOSTING ONLY:
DEDICATED HOST 0.6U14 (non-graphical version for hosting only):
www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S3_DCON_6U14.zip (1.8 MB)
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
I think I've sorted this now, but I'm not sure if maybe it works too much now.

When the user's car is created (at start or leaving pits) or reset (including race restarts) or if you take over the car, then the script is run just after the multiplayer packets have been processed.

The car is fully set up by then and assigned to the user, so the script commands work as expected.

I just wondered if it's too much, doing it when the car is reset, or maybe that is what you want.

I'm planning to release another VR test patch today so you could give it a go then.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from AndyG :Just out of interest, why does the "full screen anti-aliasing" (is this MSAA?) LFS graphics option disappear in VR mode? It's there for the mirrors, but not for the main display - I wondered if it was just a bug maybe?

It's full-scene, not full screen (as it works in a window too). But yes, it is multisampling. I think maybe the term is not used much these days, possibly because people might think it refers to supersampling AA, though you can see it described here in the Microsoft documentation for DX9.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/direct3d9/full-scene-antialiasing

I removed the option and used a fixed value of 4x in VR. It is so important in VR, it should never be switched off. Also it should not be set too high. Too many people just go through and put every setting to the max (and 16x can severely reduce frame rate in some cases) but in the case of VR, performance was the most important thing, so it seemed best to just leave it on the setting that produces the best performance. I think maybe when developing for the Vive there was also a flickering problem when MSAA was disabled, because it didn't have the extra screen copy, so that was another reason to remove the option.
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