Yeah, I don't know why they display a chaperone if the program asks for seated mode. And why it's offset in front and to the left, after setting it up at the actual seated position. Seems buggy to me.
Yes, I am working on VR features. As both Vive and Rift are shipping within a month, this has become the most important thing. Tyre physics can wait another month.
A good VR implementation with all the wrinkles ironed out will help bring in more users and that will be good for everyone. It's not possible to be in Steam, for reasons discussed before, but Valve have kindly supported us by sending Vives and we can be fully up to date with the software. On the Rift side, I have been in touch with Oculus and there is still a possibility of having LFS in the Oculus store. This is ongoing and I won't be able to say any more because if there was any more information, it would be under NDA. You'll just have to leave that to me, I'm working on it.
One requirement is that it must be possible to operate the game with a controller only. For the last two days I have worked on a system that draws a crosshair in the view centre and allows you to click buttons using the space bar. Obviously this "Click" function needs to be assignable to a controller button. At first I thought this task would be a few hours but the complexity is quite surprising. Various adaptations and improvements have become necessary. I think the only other buttons that are needed are "Escape" and "Show Virtual Keyboard". These will soon be available in a compatible test patch.
Yes, I am working on VR features. As both Vive and Rift are shipping within a month, this has become the most important thing. Tyre physics can wait another month.
A good VR implementation with all the wrinkles ironed out will help bring in more users and that will be good for everyone. It's not possible to be in Steam, for reasons discussed before, but Valve have kindly supported us by sending Vives and we can be fully up to date with the software. On the Rift side, I have been in touch with Oculus and there is still a possibility of having LFS in the Oculus store. This is ongoing and I won't be able to say any more because if there was any more information, it would be under NDA. You'll just have to leave that to me, I'm working on it.
One requirement is that it must be possible to operate the game with a controller only. For the last two days I have worked on a system that draws a crosshair in the view centre and allows you to click buttons using the space bar. Obviously this "Click" function needs to be assignable to a controller button. At first I thought this task would be a few hours but the complexity is quite surprising. Various adaptations and improvements have become necessary. I think the only other buttons that are needed are "Escape" and "Show Virtual Keyboard". These will soon be available in a compatible test patch.
It's up to HTC/Valve to sort this out by disabling chaperone in seated mode. Too bad the article makes it look like it's a bug in LFS rather than OpenVR SDK. Still, it's good to see LFS beeing mentioned somewhere.
Would be nice to see LFS on Steam or Oculus Store on the launch day, but as far as I know neither is possible. I do know there will be something called "Oculus Concepts" alongside Oculus Store, which will basicaly be what Oculus Share is right now, so maybe LFS will aprear at least there.
Are there any plans to implement any VR related features before the headsets start shipping? Like for example the image in the mirrors changing depending on head possition. I know the chaperone camera binded to a key is on the to-do-list.
Would be nice to see LFS on Steam or Oculus Store on the launch day, but as far as I know neither is possible. I do know there will be something called "Oculus Concepts" alongside Oculus Store, which will basicaly be what Oculus Share is right now, so maybe LFS will aprear at least there.
Are there any plans to implement any VR related features before the headsets start shipping? Like for example the image in the mirrors changing depending on head possition. I know the chaperone camera binded to a key is on the to-do-list.
LFS supports VR headsets natively out of the box, so there's no need for software hacks like VorpX.
I think you are talking about VorpX and it doesn't work with all games, here is the list:
http://www.vorpx.com/supported-games/
Scawen did alot more than just making it work with VR headsets. Menus and replays are displayed on a virtual monitor, HUD is floating in the air... you wouldn't be able to that with VorpX even if it would support LFS.
EDIT: They are definitely sending Vive Pres to the press, here is another Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUThUBrzhbM
EDIT2: HTC claims they took 15000 preorders in first 10 minutes. It's sold out until May.
Last edited by Amynue, .
Uhhhh.... scawen shouldn't have to do a whole lot, if anything to make LFS VR compatable. Like I've said, I don't know the names for half of this stuff, but I do know they make some sort of third party drivers that pretty much allows you to play just about anything using the occulus.
One big drawback - you still look nerdy using them though
I don't know... maybe the guy who is not interested in VR, yet thinks it's a good idea to go into a thread about a VR headset and tell people they should stop talking about it.
There is no real reviews yet because they haven't sent any units to the press. It's only available to selected developers and Scawen happens to be one of them.
If you think VR support is a waste of time and it's delaying LFS development, I'm afraid you are wrong. From my perspective VR is what brought Scawen back to active development of LFS. He seems genuinely excited about new possibilities VR brings to the world of simracing. It also an opportunity to make LFS shine again and gain new players.
Like it or not, VR has captured the imagination of a diverse group of people from all over the planet. It's normal that you would want to talk about if you are involved, and normal to feel excluded if you aren't.
But please - stop with the condescension and name calling? It really lowers the tone of the conversation.
This thread is all about Scawen's opinion on a subject he obviously has a great interest in - he will respond if he feels like it, and I'm very grateful for the time he does take to share his thoughts and knowledge.
I would take Scawen's opinion on VR over a faceless blogger because of the context, his undoubtable technical knowledge, and his ability to communicate the specific points that matter - few other commentators can tick all three boxes.
But please - stop with the condescension and name calling? It really lowers the tone of the conversation.
This thread is all about Scawen's opinion on a subject he obviously has a great interest in - he will respond if he feels like it, and I'm very grateful for the time he does take to share his thoughts and knowledge.
I would take Scawen's opinion on VR over a faceless blogger because of the context, his undoubtable technical knowledge, and his ability to communicate the specific points that matter - few other commentators can tick all three boxes.
Thread title literally asks Scawen's opinion. Could you not being an ass and let people discuss about VR devices?
Can't afford both Vive and Rift, otherwise I would. Going to wait and see how they compare, and take it in to consideration after that.
Should be receiving an S7 Edge + Gear VR combo in a few days though, interested to see how mobile VR feels.
Should be receiving an S7 Edge + Gear VR combo in a few days though, interested to see how mobile VR feels.
Last edited by Matrixi, .
I know, right? How is it that no-one else can figure out how to do menus in VR?
No, I set it up for a seated experience. There are two options in the setup and I chose "seated". I am beside a wall in so I cannot set a large open room play area (because I can't push the headset through the wall). SteamVR is buggy about this. Sometimes it shows a ring on the floor, sometimes it shows a box around me, sometime it shows a box in front of me and to my left. LFS specifies a SEATED VR experience.
Just trust me, the behaviour in the SteamVR system is buggy, wrong, inconsistent and annoying. Also, just try to imagine how many times I've reconfigured and reconfigured the area setup, trying to fix this.
I'm the sort of person who tries many times over, before I state that some software is bugged.
There are some crappy little earphones, yes. But I am not interested for one second to stick them in my ears. I have headphones if I wanted to use them. But I am in a racing simulator and I have to put the headset on and take it off loads of times. Also I have to lift it frequently to see the keyboard. So actually it is not really good that it disables my speakers without asking me, and that there is no option to enable them. I am in a seated experience and have a warm box on my face. It's going to be more comfortable to not have headphones on if you are trying to race for an hour, unless you like being drenched with sweat and your VR headset to be fogged up.
Now I am just supposing here, but Valve don't seem to think about seated experiences a lot. As a Vive user, I can see that the seated experience support is very buggy and it's the same with the speakers, it's an oversight. They don't seem to really test seated things or think about them much.
No, that was the last I heard.
As far as I know chaperone is supposted to show up only when you get close to the boundaries of your "play space", which you assign during the installation. So you may have to reconfigure that.
That's kinda good since the speakers are not good for VR and the software is written with headphones in mind. Not sure if you noticed, but Vive Pre have a cable with audio connector somewhere near the back of the strap. Did you get earphones with your Pre? Some guy on Reddit claims that his Pre was bundled with some HTC in-ear earphones.
Yes, many people who tried it, noticed that the image wasn't 1:1 and everthing apeared to be a couple inches further than it was in reality. That's probably because the camera is a few inches away from the possition of your eyes and it not real steroscopic image. Well but still should be good enough to locate your keyborard, phone or booze. Definitely something worth implementing. Rift DK2 had the nose gap for that
Could you check how much it weights? Would apriciate it.
A bit off topic but - any news on your submission for the Rift CV1/SDK 1.0? I've seen that your thread on Reddit about patch 0.6M caught the attention of Philanthropi (Developer Relations, Oculus VR).
By the way you should request a developer flair.
For those whose computer failed the Oculus Rift test, as mine did with i7-3770 CPU / 12 Gb memory / GTX 580 (due to poor processor and graphix card), my pc passed the ValveVR test as 'Ready' (with caveat).
In other words, with pc spec like mine, you may not be able to use the OR, but you may have chance with other VR headset.
In other words, with pc spec like mine, you may not be able to use the OR, but you may have chance with other VR headset.
I got the Vive Pre set up and running today.
After updating the Nvidia drivers, it was able to use Direct mode and then LFS ran well as expected, maintaining the required 90 fps.
Good news is the lighthouse is far quieter. The old one was very noisy and quite unbearable but the new one is not disturbing. It is an audible whirring with the volume something like a computer fan. I can even leave it running while I do something else.
The picture seems quite nice. I guess I'll do a comparison with the Rift DK2 at some point. Obviously as a "first generation" device, the resolution is still low when looking into the distance. But that doesn't really bother me. Actually it works quite well and I'd like to go and do some racing with it on.
I am interested in the camera, that supposedly allows you to see the world, temporarily, through the headset. That would be helpful to see the keyboard when online. Although there is only one camera so I expect the scale of things to look a bit funny. Trying to switch on the camera in the SteamVR software, it just told me nothing was working, but there was no explanation. Haven't looked further into this yet.
On the bad side, there was a lot of installing, waiting for drivers to install, error messages, switching off, switching on, updating firmware, more error messages, waiting, random success messages, more firmware, computer restart, etc... I have no idea why it's so hard. It seems to take hours. Anyway, after enough restarts and retries it eventually works (except for the camera, apparently). The SteamVR software is buggy and sometimes just crashes, sometimes the headset is detected then suddenly it claims the headset isn't there, then you can't exit the software because it is eternally "preparing to exit" or similar. Task manager is required at that point. After many attempts, I could run the room setup but that is quite buggy too. It's best to avoid running SteamVR at all. LFS, though OpenVR, can switch on the headset. But the settings are only available through SteamVR. Once I managed to run SteamVR long enough to be able to switch off the awful "chaperone" which is an annoying grid that just makes a mess of the picture. The idea is to stop you walking in to a wall, and I'm sure that's useful for room scale experiences but is totally pointless when you are seated in a racing game! There is no easy way to switch off the chaperone but eventually I set it to "developer mode" and now, as long as SteamVR is not running, I can run LFS and not see the chaperone. One other thing I don't like is it's quite hard to allow the speakers to work. By default, the Vive takes over the sound and it wants you to wear headphones. There is no option in SteamVR to switch off this behaviour and it must be done in the Windows audio settings which seem very confusing. Anyway after randomly switching things on and off for 20 minutes or so, I could hear sound again! At least that setting does stick!
The unit looks much nicer, smaller, and is a lot shorter from front to back. I found it more comfortable than the old Vive. The cardboard packaging was of a high quality and it seemed physically like a production unit instead of a prototype. Even all the plugs were UK style so no adapter was required.
Overall I'm quite pleased with it, because it is usable and seems to provides a good VR experience. I will look into the camera, to find out how it can be enabled and if this can be controlled by the software. Ideally I'd like to assign camera on/off to a wheel button.
After updating the Nvidia drivers, it was able to use Direct mode and then LFS ran well as expected, maintaining the required 90 fps.
Good news is the lighthouse is far quieter. The old one was very noisy and quite unbearable but the new one is not disturbing. It is an audible whirring with the volume something like a computer fan. I can even leave it running while I do something else.
The picture seems quite nice. I guess I'll do a comparison with the Rift DK2 at some point. Obviously as a "first generation" device, the resolution is still low when looking into the distance. But that doesn't really bother me. Actually it works quite well and I'd like to go and do some racing with it on.
I am interested in the camera, that supposedly allows you to see the world, temporarily, through the headset. That would be helpful to see the keyboard when online. Although there is only one camera so I expect the scale of things to look a bit funny. Trying to switch on the camera in the SteamVR software, it just told me nothing was working, but there was no explanation. Haven't looked further into this yet.
On the bad side, there was a lot of installing, waiting for drivers to install, error messages, switching off, switching on, updating firmware, more error messages, waiting, random success messages, more firmware, computer restart, etc... I have no idea why it's so hard. It seems to take hours. Anyway, after enough restarts and retries it eventually works (except for the camera, apparently). The SteamVR software is buggy and sometimes just crashes, sometimes the headset is detected then suddenly it claims the headset isn't there, then you can't exit the software because it is eternally "preparing to exit" or similar. Task manager is required at that point. After many attempts, I could run the room setup but that is quite buggy too. It's best to avoid running SteamVR at all. LFS, though OpenVR, can switch on the headset. But the settings are only available through SteamVR. Once I managed to run SteamVR long enough to be able to switch off the awful "chaperone" which is an annoying grid that just makes a mess of the picture. The idea is to stop you walking in to a wall, and I'm sure that's useful for room scale experiences but is totally pointless when you are seated in a racing game! There is no easy way to switch off the chaperone but eventually I set it to "developer mode" and now, as long as SteamVR is not running, I can run LFS and not see the chaperone. One other thing I don't like is it's quite hard to allow the speakers to work. By default, the Vive takes over the sound and it wants you to wear headphones. There is no option in SteamVR to switch off this behaviour and it must be done in the Windows audio settings which seem very confusing. Anyway after randomly switching things on and off for 20 minutes or so, I could hear sound again! At least that setting does stick!
The unit looks much nicer, smaller, and is a lot shorter from front to back. I found it more comfortable than the old Vive. The cardboard packaging was of a high quality and it seemed physically like a production unit instead of a prototype. Even all the plugs were UK style so no adapter was required.
Overall I'm quite pleased with it, because it is usable and seems to provides a good VR experience. I will look into the camera, to find out how it can be enabled and if this can be controlled by the software. Ideally I'd like to assign camera on/off to a wheel button.
Test Patch 0.6M2 (now M9)
WARNING : THIS IS A TEST
NOTE : THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN NEW TYRE PHYSICS OR ANY NEW CONTENT
PLEASE TEST BEFORE YOU POST
PLEASE AVOID : OFF-TOPIC FEATURE REQUESTS / UNRELATED COMMENTS
Hello Racers,
Here is a new TEST PATCH : 0.6M9
- New siren sound and doppler effect on all car sounds
- A long requested feature, to filter out demo servers, has been added
- Virtual Keyboard (press backspace) so you don't need to use the keyboard
- Look and Click feature (for VR) so you don't need to use the mouse
- An improvement to the steering input of remote cars
- Input smoothing for multiplayer replays
This test patch is mainly compatible with 0.6M
- You can connect online with 0.6M
- You can play replays from 0.6M
- An M9 guest's horn or flash will not be seen on pre-M8 guests
- The host must be M8 or later to allow a guest to use a siren
You cannot upload hotlaps made with this test patch because it is only a test patch, not an official patch.
Please keep a backup of your LFS.exe from 0.6M so you can easily go back if there are any problems.
Changes from 0.6M8 to 0.6M9 :
More translation updates! Thank you translators!
Audio :
Reduced the minimum volume to play a sound (can hear further away)
Added doppler effect to all car sounds that didn't have it already
Removed doppler effect resulting from SHIFT+U mode camera velocity
Updated commands.txt with commands /cansiren /siren /ujoin /uai
Siren sound :
Command /cansiren now works on players that have not joined race
Command /cansiren username 0 now switches off username's siren
Fix :
Fixed a recently introduced bug in the /key and /button commands
Changes from 0.6M7 to 0.6M8 :
Multiplayer :
More accurate horn and flash with shorter transmission delay
Siren sound :
Text command /siren=off/fast/slow
Only allowed on cars with a horn and if allowed by host
Allow a multiplayer guest to use siren : /cansiren username 1
InSim :
New ISS state flags to notify if local PC is in dialog / text entry
New packet SMALL_LCS - set local car switches (lights, horn, siren)
Changes from 0.6M6 to 0.6M7 :
VR :
Crosshairs auto-hide in game when buttons visible (e.g. N or InSim)
Virtual keyboard :
Added Serbian / Croatian / Slovenian keyboard (QWERTZ)
Added Slovak, Turkish, Bulgarian and Romanian keyboards
Changes from 0.6M5 to 0.6M6 :
Multiplayer :
New Demo filter at bottom of List of Hosts screen
Virtual keyboard :
Czech and Hungarian keyboard layouts are now supported
Mouse button function (e.g. throttle) disabled if clicking keyboard
Look and click :
Crosshairs did not work with vertical scroll bar
Changes from 0.6M3 to 0.6M5 :
Virtual keyboard :
Can now operate assigned keys - Speed Limiter, Reset, etc.
Most Latin keyboards and Greek and Cyrillic are now supported
The key to toggle the keyboard is now backspace (or controller)
Virtual keyboard is now drawn in front of overlapping buttons
Shift and Alt Gr keys now affect the characters on keyboard
Dead keys (for diacritics / accents) are displayed in red
Virtual keyboard position moved above text entry dialog
VR :
Crosshairs can now go past the interface edge and fade out
Talk function (T key) can now be assigned to a wheel button
Fixes :
LFS could crash if interrupted while generating track
The Alt Gr key + a number could cause the text colour to change
Simultaneous Left + Right view keys were not working properly
Changes from 0.6M2 to 0.6M3 :
VR :
Look and click (with space or button) can be used instead of mouse
OpenVR SDK now 0.9.17 and supports live IPD adjustment (Vive Pre)
Removed interface aspect ratio 1:1 and added 14:9 (default)
New click and type buttons in place of some slider bars
Virtual keyboard :
Automatically displayed in VR mode below text entry dialog
Can be toggled by controller button or backslash key (VK_OEM_5)
Misc :
Input and sound are now enabled by default when LFS is not focussed
Mouse click on demo exit screen now exits LFS or opens www.lfs.net
Fixes :
Out-of-path start warning incorrectly showed local player name
Dedicated server did not search for path after out-of-path start
Non-dedicated server could crash if guest driver drove off track
Changes from 0.6M to 0.6M2 :
Multiplayer :
Reduced steering wobble each time a position packet is received
Smoothed steering / brake / throttle inputs in multiplayer replays
MPR smoothing is disabled by switching on network debug (SHIFT+F8)
Passwords hidden on Start New Host and Join Specific Host screens
Training lessons :
Previous and best times are shown during the lesson replay
SHIFT+R now restarts the lesson without returning to instructions
SHIFT+X exits from replay or lesson back to the instructions screen
Press 1 to watch or restart replay without finishing the lesson
ESC once starts the replay / another time to exit lesson
Lesson editor :
Reverse and open configurations may now be selected
Lesson image filename no longer needs to start with zzz_
Image does not need to be square (but is still shown in a square)
On entry to lesson editor the current track and config are selected
You can now select the lighting (weather) for a lesson
Misc :
Layout editor now allows unmovable objects to intersect
Fixes :
LFS could crash if a shadowed object near a paused car was deleted
INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS :
A FULL version of LFS 0.6M must already be installed
To install the PATCH using the SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVE :
1) Move or save the patch into your main LFS folder
2) Double click the patch to extract it to that folder
3) When you see "Confirm File Replace" select "Yes to All"
4) Now you can start LFS in the normal way
NOTE : You can see if the patch is correctly installed when you run
the program (LFS.exe). At the bottom of the entry screen : 0.6M9
DOWNLOADS :
PATCH 0.6M TO 0.6M9 (SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVE) (if you already have 0.6M) :
www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_PATCH_6M_TO_6M9.exe (1.6 MB)
PATCH 0.6M TO 0.6M9 (ALTERNATIVE ZIP) (if you already have 0.6M) :
www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_PATCH_6M_TO_6M9.zip (2.0 MB)
FOR HOSTING ONLY
DEDICATED HOST 0.6M9 (non-graphical version for hosting only) :
www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S3_DCON_6M9.zip (1.8 MB)
NOTE : THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN NEW TYRE PHYSICS OR ANY NEW CONTENT
PLEASE TEST BEFORE YOU POST
PLEASE AVOID : OFF-TOPIC FEATURE REQUESTS / UNRELATED COMMENTS
Hello Racers,
Here is a new TEST PATCH : 0.6M9
- New siren sound and doppler effect on all car sounds
- A long requested feature, to filter out demo servers, has been added
- Virtual Keyboard (press backspace) so you don't need to use the keyboard
- Look and Click feature (for VR) so you don't need to use the mouse
- An improvement to the steering input of remote cars
- Input smoothing for multiplayer replays
This test patch is mainly compatible with 0.6M
- You can connect online with 0.6M
- You can play replays from 0.6M
- An M9 guest's horn or flash will not be seen on pre-M8 guests
- The host must be M8 or later to allow a guest to use a siren
You cannot upload hotlaps made with this test patch because it is only a test patch, not an official patch.
Please keep a backup of your LFS.exe from 0.6M so you can easily go back if there are any problems.
Changes from 0.6M8 to 0.6M9 :
More translation updates! Thank you translators!
Audio :
Reduced the minimum volume to play a sound (can hear further away)
Added doppler effect to all car sounds that didn't have it already
Removed doppler effect resulting from SHIFT+U mode camera velocity
Updated commands.txt with commands /cansiren /siren /ujoin /uai
Siren sound :
Command /cansiren now works on players that have not joined race
Command /cansiren username 0 now switches off username's siren
Fix :
Fixed a recently introduced bug in the /key and /button commands
Changes from 0.6M7 to 0.6M8 :
Multiplayer :
More accurate horn and flash with shorter transmission delay
Siren sound :
Text command /siren=off/fast/slow
Only allowed on cars with a horn and if allowed by host
Allow a multiplayer guest to use siren : /cansiren username 1
InSim :
New ISS state flags to notify if local PC is in dialog / text entry
New packet SMALL_LCS - set local car switches (lights, horn, siren)
Changes from 0.6M6 to 0.6M7 :
VR :
Crosshairs auto-hide in game when buttons visible (e.g. N or InSim)
Virtual keyboard :
Added Serbian / Croatian / Slovenian keyboard (QWERTZ)
Added Slovak, Turkish, Bulgarian and Romanian keyboards
Changes from 0.6M5 to 0.6M6 :
Multiplayer :
New Demo filter at bottom of List of Hosts screen
Virtual keyboard :
Czech and Hungarian keyboard layouts are now supported
Mouse button function (e.g. throttle) disabled if clicking keyboard
Look and click :
Crosshairs did not work with vertical scroll bar
Changes from 0.6M3 to 0.6M5 :
Virtual keyboard :
Can now operate assigned keys - Speed Limiter, Reset, etc.
Most Latin keyboards and Greek and Cyrillic are now supported
The key to toggle the keyboard is now backspace (or controller)
Virtual keyboard is now drawn in front of overlapping buttons
Shift and Alt Gr keys now affect the characters on keyboard
Dead keys (for diacritics / accents) are displayed in red
Virtual keyboard position moved above text entry dialog
VR :
Crosshairs can now go past the interface edge and fade out
Talk function (T key) can now be assigned to a wheel button
Fixes :
LFS could crash if interrupted while generating track
The Alt Gr key + a number could cause the text colour to change
Simultaneous Left + Right view keys were not working properly
Changes from 0.6M2 to 0.6M3 :
VR :
Look and click (with space or button) can be used instead of mouse
OpenVR SDK now 0.9.17 and supports live IPD adjustment (Vive Pre)
Removed interface aspect ratio 1:1 and added 14:9 (default)
New click and type buttons in place of some slider bars
Virtual keyboard :
Automatically displayed in VR mode below text entry dialog
Can be toggled by controller button or backslash key (VK_OEM_5)
Misc :
Input and sound are now enabled by default when LFS is not focussed
Mouse click on demo exit screen now exits LFS or opens www.lfs.net
Fixes :
Out-of-path start warning incorrectly showed local player name
Dedicated server did not search for path after out-of-path start
Non-dedicated server could crash if guest driver drove off track
Changes from 0.6M to 0.6M2 :
Multiplayer :
Reduced steering wobble each time a position packet is received
Smoothed steering / brake / throttle inputs in multiplayer replays
MPR smoothing is disabled by switching on network debug (SHIFT+F8)
Passwords hidden on Start New Host and Join Specific Host screens
Training lessons :
Previous and best times are shown during the lesson replay
SHIFT+R now restarts the lesson without returning to instructions
SHIFT+X exits from replay or lesson back to the instructions screen
Press 1 to watch or restart replay without finishing the lesson
ESC once starts the replay / another time to exit lesson
Lesson editor :
Reverse and open configurations may now be selected
Lesson image filename no longer needs to start with zzz_
Image does not need to be square (but is still shown in a square)
On entry to lesson editor the current track and config are selected
You can now select the lighting (weather) for a lesson
Misc :
Layout editor now allows unmovable objects to intersect
Fixes :
LFS could crash if a shadowed object near a paused car was deleted
INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS :
A FULL version of LFS 0.6M must already be installed
To install the PATCH using the SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVE :
1) Move or save the patch into your main LFS folder
2) Double click the patch to extract it to that folder
3) When you see "Confirm File Replace" select "Yes to All"
4) Now you can start LFS in the normal way
NOTE : You can see if the patch is correctly installed when you run
the program (LFS.exe). At the bottom of the entry screen : 0.6M9
DOWNLOADS :
PATCH 0.6M TO 0.6M9 (SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVE) (if you already have 0.6M) :
www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_PATCH_6M_TO_6M9.exe (1.6 MB)
PATCH 0.6M TO 0.6M9 (ALTERNATIVE ZIP) (if you already have 0.6M) :
www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_PATCH_6M_TO_6M9.zip (2.0 MB)
FOR HOSTING ONLY
DEDICATED HOST 0.6M9 (non-graphical version for hosting only) :
www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S3_DCON_6M9.zip (1.8 MB)
Last edited by Scawen, .
Yes, Eric has a DK2 and that has influenced the development of Westhill and Rockingham. He often checks his work out in VR because it's such a good view on things. There is extra incentive to include more 3D geometry in models and so on.
Maybe it's a program that pops up in 3D space and you can control your phone in there, like looking at the actual phone screen, or perhaps just a set of menus accessing various features. So you can be in VR but you don't have to leave behind the comfort and security of your beloved phone in the real world, and you don't have to miss a single facebook post about a cup of coffee one of your friends bought or any inane tweet by a spamming celebrity.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Happy to hear that, thanks.
Smartphones are what HTC is mostly known for so probably it didn't cost them much extra to implement that, but it does seem quite pointless and adds unnecesary weight and bulk to a headset which is already quite overweight compared to the Rift.
I was wondering... does Eric have any VR headset? Now that you have the Pre, DK1 is of no use to you, so maybe you could give it to Eric so he can step into the world he modeled
You could go even further and implement VR into the editor 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKO9fEjNiio - Unreal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzjxRi5J4XI - Unity
EDIT:
Not sure if that website is to be trusted but it claims that the Vive will cost £689 in the UK (€882).
http://mashable.com/2016/02/21/htc-vive-price-release-date/#U4gpl5Fluuqc
Last edited by Amynue, .
Reason : unconfirmed UK price
My dad's now officially a superfan
Bit of a long read, but I'm proud of the tricks that an old dog has learned.
My dad is 56, and in the last year has gone from someone that couldn't even watch my younger brothers play Gran Turismo on the TV without feeling sick, to playing LFS in a Rift for about an hour to an hour and a half, nearly every night, for the last 6 months.
I taught him the basics last year, starting off in Gran Turismo 6 on my Logitech G25. He could only do 10-15 minutes every other day as it made him feel ill, but he wanted to beat a lap time my younger brother had set.
About the same time as that, a friend of mine introduced us to AutoSolo events, and because AutoSolo events in the UK are pretty much marketing for MX-5's, he ended up buying one. His previous car preferences were big German automatic power barges. He was shifting it at about 3500rpm, and in the wet on his first track day, he was black flagged because he seemed to have no idea what to do when losing traction, and was fishtailing close to the barriers quite a bit. It didn't really knock his confidence, but it made him realise he needed to pretty much learn to drive again for this kind of environment. I would never let him drive my car by himself, because I knew that if it started to go wrong, it would be in a barrier.
He ended up buying himself a G27, and stuck with GT6 on PS3. I set it up as best I could with all assistance turned off, wheel set to simulation, track edge grip set to 'Real', no slicks etc.
I then gave him simple laptime targets to aim for, on short tracks. When he'd beat it, I'd up the target, and wait a week or so for him to get there. I'd also watch and see where he was going wrong, which at the start was everywhere, but rather than saturate him with all the things he's doing wrong, I picked just one thing per week or so to try, promising him it should net enough laptime to hit the target.
It started off as simply changing gear too late and being on the limiter. Then it was using all the track on exit. Then on being wide before entry. After each new tip, he'd find better laptime, and then hit a wall where he'd get no faster, and then I'd observe and pick another one of his original faults to get him to focus on. The next I think was trail braking, and not having dead pedals. Another second shaved off.
A bit later on I wanted to try him on a less forgiving racing simulator, to see how he'd fair. I managed to get hold of a pretty dated gaming PC, just about good enough to racing sims. He wanted to drive in an MX-5, so at the time all I had was iRacing. He struggled badly at first, but after a couple of weeks of not giving up, he was comfortable in it.
Then I got Assetto Corsa, and set him a challenge to learn the Nordschleife, the MX-5 community project car for AC sweetened the deal. He spent a few months then doing nothing but the Nordschleife in an MX-5. His first goal was under 10 minutes, because that seems to be the standard measure. He did that and more. He also now knows the track from memory.
Then came the Oculus Rift.
I first tried one of these at a LAN party my older brother invited me to. It was running LFS, an old friend for me. I was blown away by it. I went home early the same day just to go convince my dad to go halves on one and place an order as soon as possible.
He first go on it, and he felt disappointed, it made him feel sick, he nearly fell out of his chair and accidentally punched my younger brother out of fear who was standing at the side of him, when going into a barrier.
He couldn't touch it for a couple of days, still feeling sick.
Not wanting to feel like I'd used him and his money to get something he couldn't use himself, I told him it was normal to be like that, and you just need to do a couple of minutes each day to build up to it.
What motivates my dad is a target laptime that he's only just slightly away from. About the only racing sim his PC had the power to run comfortably was LFS. iRacing was stuttering, Assetto Corsa was badly implemented and unclear and smudgey. LFS was unusually perfect, sitting at a rock solid 75fps no matter what.
After a few weeks, my made up advice actually seemed to work! He could do increasingly longer stints and come off it feeling fine.
I picked South City Classic as his track—I pick small ones because if you make a mistake, you get to have another go in less than a minute again—and I put him in an LX-6, just because I think if you can drive that effectively, you can a little MX-5 in real life. I also wanted to really challenge him.
The last time he drove his MX-5 at a track day, he was a danger to himself if anything were to go wrong. He was also slow. On AutoSolo's he was understeering or spinning out.
He kept practicing on LFS in the Oculus, trying to learn how to catch the LX-6 when the back end started to break away, usually wrenching the wheel and being spat out the opposite way. Exactly what I wanted him to experience, and why I chose the LX-6.
Next AutoSolo event, which he'd entered as an AutoTest entry, he won the AutoTest and got a little trophy, and was quicker than my older brother, a "car guy".
All the while he'd been playing racing sims, I'd drummed into him that there is no innate talent, just time spent "bum in seat" and practicing. Another encouraging made up lie that I only really half believed. It seemed to have stuck though, as he's been practicing religiously.
When Rockingham released (where we actually do our autosolos, and he did his second slightly better track day) he wanted to learn the track properly, in something similar to his MX-5, in preparation for a track day this year. I put him in an LX-4 (faster than an MX-5, but I think it's best to practice in something faster), and gave him another laptime target. He beat my time. I set a new one. He beat that. I set a new one trying my best (not been sim racing for a couple of years now), and he beat me. I then really struggled to beat his lap record, but just pipped it by a few thousandths.
This is where I changed the game.
He was legitimately challenging me on fastest lap time, but I noticed that he'd literally spend 2 hours going around, trying for that one killer lap, with lots of sliding and mistakes along the way. In my trying to beat it, I'd be near it lap after lap.
I then set a challenge of best race time over 8 laps, with the fuel taken out. I didn't want him focusing on the ultimate lap, but on how fast he could do 8 laps in, and told him that the name of the game now is consistency and quality, rather than explosive luck and quantity.
He took off quite calmly, not trying to get the fastest possible lap, but trying to be neat. About 6 laps in, he sets a laptime 6 10ths faster than he'd ever done when trying. He didn't notice, and I didn't bring it to his attention. Lap 7 went by about the same, lap 8 a little slower, but he noticed it was the fastest he'd ever done and was cheering. Laps 9 and 10 were slow as he tried to push hard again thinking he could beat that lap too.
I then had my turn to set a time, 8 laps, and I beat his time by 6 or so seconds, even though my fastest lap was a couple of tenths slower. That seemed to teach him the importance of consistency, and how fluking into a fastest lap after hours of trying, and not having it even near repeatable, isn't much to brag about.
He's been keeping a notepad of his 8 lap times next to the computer, with photographic evidence on his phone of any times he's proud of. His race pace now is about 5 seconds quicker than my first attempt. I think it would take me a couple of hours of getting back into sim racing again to beat him now. I think after a year and a bit of solid practice in racing sims, my dad is currently faster than me... I'm almost scared to try and have a go at beating him again, but will try tonight, and if I can't beat him, then my second little encouraging white lie about practice being everything has turned out to be true too.
Any angle the LX-4 gets to, he's bringing it back. He goes on the grass, he relaxes the tension on the wheel and eases it back on the track. Gets in a spin, and he's locking all the wheels. He's doing EVERYTHING right. He's now only the second person I'd let drive my car without me in it, and not be worried.
The best thing about all of this, is the little MX-5 sitting in the garage, that he's changed the springs, shocks, and roll bars on (following advice of people that race them), he hasn't even had chance to drive it on a track day since becoming the driver he has, and since fitting all those parts.
While my engine was being rebuilt (original FD with 60,000 miles!), he let me use the MX-5 as a run about to get to work, and that thing is absolutely incredible. With its current settings, it is far more balanced, more agile, and more predictable than my FD. It does EVERYTHING you'd expect an LX in LFS to do. The same LX-4/6 my dad has fallen in love with over the last few months, to the point of talking to his friends at work about 'Westfields' and how good they are, not wanting to say he's been playing video games.
He's now building his own dedicated racing sim PC, in preparation for the next gen, higher resolution HMD's.
The last step of the training I wanted to put him through is to load up Rockingham with a load of dumb and slow AI drivers, to see how he copes in traffic. I'm not sure if his current PC will cope with it though. We'll find out tonight.
But yeah, I legitimately think that if me and my dad had a race on Rockingham in the LX-4 now, I'd struggle, and honestly most likely lose. I want to see if I can set that up this weekend, and if I do, I'll be a strange blend of humiliated and proud.
Can't wait for the next track day. He's going to see just how good his little MX-5 is.
The entire point of this thread though, is to thank the LFS developers. I caught my dad last night, after one of his nightly 8 lap runs, really slowly driving his LX-4 into the Rockingham garages, parking it up, turning off the engine, looking around, and then patting the wheel affectionately before getting out of the headset.
He's an LFS addict now, and it's thanks to your excellent and comfortable implementation of VR, the efficiency of your game being able to run on older hardware, the selection of road cars you offer, rather than just racing cars, and the excellently detailed and accurate Rockingham track, which is one he can relate to, down to every detail.
YOUR racing sim, more than any of the others—and I'm happy to buy and enjoy them ALL—has easily had the biggest impact on him.
If LFS development momentum is taking off again, I'd say it's about time for me to get back into it and try and keep up!
Thank you Scavier!
My dad is 56, and in the last year has gone from someone that couldn't even watch my younger brothers play Gran Turismo on the TV without feeling sick, to playing LFS in a Rift for about an hour to an hour and a half, nearly every night, for the last 6 months.
I taught him the basics last year, starting off in Gran Turismo 6 on my Logitech G25. He could only do 10-15 minutes every other day as it made him feel ill, but he wanted to beat a lap time my younger brother had set.
About the same time as that, a friend of mine introduced us to AutoSolo events, and because AutoSolo events in the UK are pretty much marketing for MX-5's, he ended up buying one. His previous car preferences were big German automatic power barges. He was shifting it at about 3500rpm, and in the wet on his first track day, he was black flagged because he seemed to have no idea what to do when losing traction, and was fishtailing close to the barriers quite a bit. It didn't really knock his confidence, but it made him realise he needed to pretty much learn to drive again for this kind of environment. I would never let him drive my car by himself, because I knew that if it started to go wrong, it would be in a barrier.
He ended up buying himself a G27, and stuck with GT6 on PS3. I set it up as best I could with all assistance turned off, wheel set to simulation, track edge grip set to 'Real', no slicks etc.
I then gave him simple laptime targets to aim for, on short tracks. When he'd beat it, I'd up the target, and wait a week or so for him to get there. I'd also watch and see where he was going wrong, which at the start was everywhere, but rather than saturate him with all the things he's doing wrong, I picked just one thing per week or so to try, promising him it should net enough laptime to hit the target.
It started off as simply changing gear too late and being on the limiter. Then it was using all the track on exit. Then on being wide before entry. After each new tip, he'd find better laptime, and then hit a wall where he'd get no faster, and then I'd observe and pick another one of his original faults to get him to focus on. The next I think was trail braking, and not having dead pedals. Another second shaved off.
A bit later on I wanted to try him on a less forgiving racing simulator, to see how he'd fair. I managed to get hold of a pretty dated gaming PC, just about good enough to racing sims. He wanted to drive in an MX-5, so at the time all I had was iRacing. He struggled badly at first, but after a couple of weeks of not giving up, he was comfortable in it.
Then I got Assetto Corsa, and set him a challenge to learn the Nordschleife, the MX-5 community project car for AC sweetened the deal. He spent a few months then doing nothing but the Nordschleife in an MX-5. His first goal was under 10 minutes, because that seems to be the standard measure. He did that and more. He also now knows the track from memory.
Then came the Oculus Rift.
I first tried one of these at a LAN party my older brother invited me to. It was running LFS, an old friend for me. I was blown away by it. I went home early the same day just to go convince my dad to go halves on one and place an order as soon as possible.
He first go on it, and he felt disappointed, it made him feel sick, he nearly fell out of his chair and accidentally punched my younger brother out of fear who was standing at the side of him, when going into a barrier.
He couldn't touch it for a couple of days, still feeling sick.
Not wanting to feel like I'd used him and his money to get something he couldn't use himself, I told him it was normal to be like that, and you just need to do a couple of minutes each day to build up to it.
What motivates my dad is a target laptime that he's only just slightly away from. About the only racing sim his PC had the power to run comfortably was LFS. iRacing was stuttering, Assetto Corsa was badly implemented and unclear and smudgey. LFS was unusually perfect, sitting at a rock solid 75fps no matter what.
After a few weeks, my made up advice actually seemed to work! He could do increasingly longer stints and come off it feeling fine.
I picked South City Classic as his track—I pick small ones because if you make a mistake, you get to have another go in less than a minute again—and I put him in an LX-6, just because I think if you can drive that effectively, you can a little MX-5 in real life. I also wanted to really challenge him.
The last time he drove his MX-5 at a track day, he was a danger to himself if anything were to go wrong. He was also slow. On AutoSolo's he was understeering or spinning out.
He kept practicing on LFS in the Oculus, trying to learn how to catch the LX-6 when the back end started to break away, usually wrenching the wheel and being spat out the opposite way. Exactly what I wanted him to experience, and why I chose the LX-6.
Next AutoSolo event, which he'd entered as an AutoTest entry, he won the AutoTest and got a little trophy, and was quicker than my older brother, a "car guy".
All the while he'd been playing racing sims, I'd drummed into him that there is no innate talent, just time spent "bum in seat" and practicing. Another encouraging made up lie that I only really half believed. It seemed to have stuck though, as he's been practicing religiously.
When Rockingham released (where we actually do our autosolos, and he did his second slightly better track day) he wanted to learn the track properly, in something similar to his MX-5, in preparation for a track day this year. I put him in an LX-4 (faster than an MX-5, but I think it's best to practice in something faster), and gave him another laptime target. He beat my time. I set a new one. He beat that. I set a new one trying my best (not been sim racing for a couple of years now), and he beat me. I then really struggled to beat his lap record, but just pipped it by a few thousandths.
This is where I changed the game.
He was legitimately challenging me on fastest lap time, but I noticed that he'd literally spend 2 hours going around, trying for that one killer lap, with lots of sliding and mistakes along the way. In my trying to beat it, I'd be near it lap after lap.
I then set a challenge of best race time over 8 laps, with the fuel taken out. I didn't want him focusing on the ultimate lap, but on how fast he could do 8 laps in, and told him that the name of the game now is consistency and quality, rather than explosive luck and quantity.
He took off quite calmly, not trying to get the fastest possible lap, but trying to be neat. About 6 laps in, he sets a laptime 6 10ths faster than he'd ever done when trying. He didn't notice, and I didn't bring it to his attention. Lap 7 went by about the same, lap 8 a little slower, but he noticed it was the fastest he'd ever done and was cheering. Laps 9 and 10 were slow as he tried to push hard again thinking he could beat that lap too.
I then had my turn to set a time, 8 laps, and I beat his time by 6 or so seconds, even though my fastest lap was a couple of tenths slower. That seemed to teach him the importance of consistency, and how fluking into a fastest lap after hours of trying, and not having it even near repeatable, isn't much to brag about.
He's been keeping a notepad of his 8 lap times next to the computer, with photographic evidence on his phone of any times he's proud of. His race pace now is about 5 seconds quicker than my first attempt. I think it would take me a couple of hours of getting back into sim racing again to beat him now. I think after a year and a bit of solid practice in racing sims, my dad is currently faster than me... I'm almost scared to try and have a go at beating him again, but will try tonight, and if I can't beat him, then my second little encouraging white lie about practice being everything has turned out to be true too.
Any angle the LX-4 gets to, he's bringing it back. He goes on the grass, he relaxes the tension on the wheel and eases it back on the track. Gets in a spin, and he's locking all the wheels. He's doing EVERYTHING right. He's now only the second person I'd let drive my car without me in it, and not be worried.
The best thing about all of this, is the little MX-5 sitting in the garage, that he's changed the springs, shocks, and roll bars on (following advice of people that race them), he hasn't even had chance to drive it on a track day since becoming the driver he has, and since fitting all those parts.
While my engine was being rebuilt (original FD with 60,000 miles!), he let me use the MX-5 as a run about to get to work, and that thing is absolutely incredible. With its current settings, it is far more balanced, more agile, and more predictable than my FD. It does EVERYTHING you'd expect an LX in LFS to do. The same LX-4/6 my dad has fallen in love with over the last few months, to the point of talking to his friends at work about 'Westfields' and how good they are, not wanting to say he's been playing video games.
He's now building his own dedicated racing sim PC, in preparation for the next gen, higher resolution HMD's.
The last step of the training I wanted to put him through is to load up Rockingham with a load of dumb and slow AI drivers, to see how he copes in traffic. I'm not sure if his current PC will cope with it though. We'll find out tonight.
But yeah, I legitimately think that if me and my dad had a race on Rockingham in the LX-4 now, I'd struggle, and honestly most likely lose. I want to see if I can set that up this weekend, and if I do, I'll be a strange blend of humiliated and proud.
Can't wait for the next track day. He's going to see just how good his little MX-5 is.
The entire point of this thread though, is to thank the LFS developers. I caught my dad last night, after one of his nightly 8 lap runs, really slowly driving his LX-4 into the Rockingham garages, parking it up, turning off the engine, looking around, and then patting the wheel affectionately before getting out of the headset.
He's an LFS addict now, and it's thanks to your excellent and comfortable implementation of VR, the efficiency of your game being able to run on older hardware, the selection of road cars you offer, rather than just racing cars, and the excellently detailed and accurate Rockingham track, which is one he can relate to, down to every detail.
YOUR racing sim, more than any of the others—and I'm happy to buy and enjoy them ALL—has easily had the biggest impact on him.
If LFS development momentum is taking off again, I'd say it's about time for me to get back into it and try and keep up!
Thank you Scavier!
Can't remember the last time I fired up LFS and tbh, didn't think I would again.. but life changes and some things are thrown your way to make you reconsider what makes life tick.. so wondered what had changed within LFS over the past few years (granted content-wise, not much and I have no interest in the VR side of things).. but after grabbing my wheel back off my eldest.. I plugged it in and was pleasantly surprised.
There's still imperfections, but it's a lot better than I remembered from last time.. whilst Rockingham is OK.. the newly improved Westhill (only ran a few tests on National thus far) is great!
The new dedi host improvements over "back in the day" are cool too. Took longer to apt-get install wine on one of my Debian boxes and add the port forwarding on the Draytek router than it did to get it working (much simpler than days gone by).
The AI are still a bit rough, but much improved too.. although getting them to stop hitting the brakes really hard when you pass them within close proximity would be welcomed
(yes, I like to play offline games sometimes).
Anyways.. looks like a few of us old dSRC members might be returning for some fun in the near future
Cheers..
Ian
There's still imperfections, but it's a lot better than I remembered from last time.. whilst Rockingham is OK.. the newly improved Westhill (only ran a few tests on National thus far) is great!
The new dedi host improvements over "back in the day" are cool too. Took longer to apt-get install wine on one of my Debian boxes and add the port forwarding on the Draytek router than it did to get it working (much simpler than days gone by).
The AI are still a bit rough, but much improved too.. although getting them to stop hitting the brakes really hard when you pass them within close proximity would be welcomed
(yes, I like to play offline games sometimes).Anyways.. looks like a few of us old dSRC members might be returning for some fun in the near future
Cheers..
Ian
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG