Banned cargame.nl for a month.
His previous post goes too far.
Better to have a break from here.
Meanwhile, I'm working on the tyre physics. The VR support really needed the 3D mirrors and that's why I did it. It really is the icing on the cake for VR support. Actually as I stated before there is something pretty bad about 2D mirrors in VR!
His previous post goes too far.
Better to have a break from here.
Meanwhile, I'm working on the tyre physics. The VR support really needed the 3D mirrors and that's why I did it. It really is the icing on the cake for VR support. Actually as I stated before there is something pretty bad about 2D mirrors in VR!
VR is way too expensive to get mainstream. And still at such an high price, HTC managed to sell over 100,000 units in the first 6 months so there must be more than five people using it. I still think it can't work in most games but to a genre where your body is stationary inside the 3d world, it sounds like salvation.
So alright let's move to Windows 10 NSA edition which provides so much better visuals, stability, compatibility and of course privacy. Being Scawen I'd ditch DirectX to go for Vulcan whenever possible to increase the compatibility toward Linux and MAC to bring more users so I guess we are not on the same planet.
So alright let's move to Windows 10 NSA edition which provides so much better visuals, stability, compatibility and of course privacy. Being Scawen I'd ditch DirectX to go for Vulcan whenever possible to increase the compatibility toward Linux and MAC to bring more users so I guess we are not on the same planet.
It does, two years further, there are five people using some VR and thats it. I say something about it and I am the one who is crazy. Well, just a middle finger and some Youtube celebration if another patch comes out about VR. Lets find out how good this LFS t-shirts will burn with 100ml of fuel.
I might be crazy but it's completely retarded to recommend VR here in front of all those people and if you don't like the 2D cockpit views then you can piss off because you are just a fool. The fools here are the people who still believe in all this VR nonsense. It doesn't sell and it doesn't look like it will ever do. In the meantime sticking with Windows XP, now that's hilarious.
Last edited by cargame.nl, .
Isolation is good when racing, surely? There's plenty of time for family interaction when I'm not racing, in the same way as I wait until their favourite TV program has finished before I try to have a deep conversation with them.
Many of my on-track failures have come from interaction with meatspace. I don't have VR (just headphones at max volume) and I'm totally 'dialed-in' when racing, anything less usually means a crash.
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OT:
I find it odd enough that most other people choose to race from the back seat with weird elongated arms (ie, FOV 90), but from follow? That must've taken some getting used to
Many of my on-track failures have come from interaction with meatspace. I don't have VR (just headphones at max volume) and I'm totally 'dialed-in' when racing, anything less usually means a crash.
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OT:
I find it odd enough that most other people choose to race from the back seat with weird elongated arms (ie, FOV 90), but from follow? That must've taken some getting used to
Gotta love it when Dave is making a fool out of himself again. But it must be that we're kids and don't know what we're talking about...
Anyway, I'd love to try out VR sometime. And I think it's pretty clear that the VR update has done good things for LFS with all the new users and news coverage.
The price to get my rig ready and buy a VR kit is a little too steep for now I think. Especially because VR is still not really there yet.
Anyway, I'd love to try out VR sometime. And I think it's pretty clear that the VR update has done good things for LFS with all the new users and news coverage.
The price to get my rig ready and buy a VR kit is a little too steep for now I think. Especially because VR is still not really there yet.
Wrong. It does isolate your vision, yes, as that is the whole point, you have to be inside the virtual world. It doesn't have to isolate your hearing, you just use speakers or headphones, whatever you usually do in a sim.
It doesn't lead to broken relationships, you are getting a bit silly now. Obviously going for a half hour / one hour drive on your sim rig, doesn't harm your relationship in a different way if you have a headset on or a large monitor. It's just more fun in the headset because it's like you are really in the car. great fun and something that will no way fade away. It doesn't suffer from all the drawbacks of 3D TV, it's really not related to that.
VR is great for simulators, of course, because you are seated. For example when you used ETS to practice reversing. That experience could be seriously realistic if you had a headset on, because you could turn your head and look around just as in real life.
Obviously, you aren't ready for VR. It's not ready or good enough for most people. But it's not sensible to keep telling people it's stupid, specially if you haven't even tried it. It's actually quite amazing and has a definite place in the world, including in sim racing.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Dave, have you tried a VR headset yet? It's pretty good! 
Yes, expensive at the moment, the Rift FOV is too narrow at around 90 degrees and the Oculus software is really awful, intrusive and full of bugs. The Vive has a whirring lighthouse system for positional tracking (though they are fairly quiet).
I can think of a more ideal headset with Rift style camera-based positional tracking, non-facebook software, Vive field of view (but preferably wider and with screens mounted horizontally), slightly higher resolution and lighter.
Some of this is coming. For many people it's best to wait for some of the necessary improvements. But it really is something to feel like you are in the car driving around, looking left and right at seemingly real sized cars next to you!
No-one in my family thinks I look stupid, they just want to have a go! There's a strange thing where you can be in the two realities at the same time. Driving around in the virtual world, but also able to talk to the person who just entered the room behind you.
Yes, expensive at the moment, the Rift FOV is too narrow at around 90 degrees and the Oculus software is really awful, intrusive and full of bugs. The Vive has a whirring lighthouse system for positional tracking (though they are fairly quiet).
I can think of a more ideal headset with Rift style camera-based positional tracking, non-facebook software, Vive field of view (but preferably wider and with screens mounted horizontally), slightly higher resolution and lighter.
Some of this is coming. For many people it's best to wait for some of the necessary improvements. But it really is something to feel like you are in the car driving around, looking left and right at seemingly real sized cars next to you!
No-one in my family thinks I look stupid, they just want to have a go! There's a strange thing where you can be in the two realities at the same time. Driving around in the virtual world, but also able to talk to the person who just entered the room behind you.
You don't like the 2D cockpits, you don't want VR because you "look like an idiot" and you wouldn't want to buy a 3D monitor. I am assuming you don't think you look like an idiot wearing 3D Glasses. You're not going to be pleased soon either way.
Personally, I don't really look at the cockpit when I am racing. I'm sat on a desk chair, playing virtual racing with a toy steering wheel. I don't think a VR headset is going to alter someone else's opinion of the aesthetics of that. Perhaps you need a sense of humour about yourself.
Besides, that's not really looking like an idiot. How you look like an idiot is to use either youth or autism as a condescending insult.
LOVE the mirrors in VR and love seeing my helmet. Wow I never would have though such a small change could have such an impact to self awareness and perception in VR. GREAT addition and thank you for continuing to support LFS!
I appreciate your development path update Scawen. I think once these tyre physics are improved and released it will be the second phase of lfs and help online racing again.
Anyway, it was nice to read and look forward to any other technical updates in the future.
p.s. VR mirrors are fantastic! Well done.
Anyway, it was nice to read and look forward to any other technical updates in the future.
p.s. VR mirrors are fantastic! Well done.
Yeah, we all know I need to get back on the tyre physics. I've started looking into that today, reading a few things, thinking how to start tackling the problems, seeing where I'm at, coming up with a plan of attack.
I think it's a case of coming in from two directions. One, looking in the code, making some notes, removing any code which is based on false assumptions, then coming up with good models to replace it. Two, at the same time, reading up on the elements that need to be modelled better. Plenty of testing all the way and extracting data to compare with real world data, and making sure everything scales nicely...
I will not try to aim for perfection. Far from it, the aim is to produce something that feels better to drive than the old tyre model for the sake of online racing. It will be a closer match with the behaviour of real world tyres, and will be based on reasonable assumptions and approximations, that can be improved upon in the future.
About the 0.6Q update. 3D mirrors were on my list for a long time. 2D mirrors really look quite bad in VR, as if there were LCD screens where your mirrors should be. Totally wrong. One day it just came to me how to do them. A half day experiment proved to me that the concept would work. As usual I thought it would all be done in a few days, but in fact was more like six weeks, with all the complications that came up and trying not to lose too much frame rate. I'm really happy with the result and LFS graphics came on a small step for everyone.
GamerMuscle has made a video featuring the new mirrors in LFS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKBNfJFNkUY
I think it's a case of coming in from two directions. One, looking in the code, making some notes, removing any code which is based on false assumptions, then coming up with good models to replace it. Two, at the same time, reading up on the elements that need to be modelled better. Plenty of testing all the way and extracting data to compare with real world data, and making sure everything scales nicely...
I will not try to aim for perfection. Far from it, the aim is to produce something that feels better to drive than the old tyre model for the sake of online racing. It will be a closer match with the behaviour of real world tyres, and will be based on reasonable assumptions and approximations, that can be improved upon in the future.
About the 0.6Q update. 3D mirrors were on my list for a long time. 2D mirrors really look quite bad in VR, as if there were LCD screens where your mirrors should be. Totally wrong. One day it just came to me how to do them. A half day experiment proved to me that the concept would work. As usual I thought it would all be done in a few days, but in fact was more like six weeks, with all the complications that came up and trying not to lose too much frame rate. I'm really happy with the result and LFS graphics came on a small step for everyone.
GamerMuscle has made a video featuring the new mirrors in LFS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKBNfJFNkUY
Last edited by Scawen, .
Almost exclusively playing im VR nowadays, the 3D mirrors are a much bigger thing that I could've ever imagined. Great work. I do understand it's niche appeal though...
Many mirrors and upgrade of nonsense and less fps and always the same cars , happened with the scirocco vw ? over 5 years ago we are to update the game ? ^ when a big change ? The only changes were rockingham and whesthill in the last 5 years , took the s3 with only one version of new track and over which we have s2 have to continue spending money and when you take s4 again spend money ? for a game that pormete and promises and is always the same? I think before focusing on the VR would have to focus on the players who are really active users in the game because sudamerica have a video card with support for VR is not cheap in Europe probably is but here not lack the will to live for speed lately is worse than ever there is never fewer servers and less online players if they do not make any changes I do not think fits a lot of life to the game!
Cool, adjustable mirrors.........
Available since "Mod: Fit mirrors" on horse powered wagons, and 2014 in "Farming Simulator"
http://www.modland.net/farming-simulator-2015/implements-tools/adjustable-mirrors-v1.1.5.html
Seriously, given the 'current, but for how much longer?' physics that LFS offers, where are the modded tracks, etc that the game needs to survive ???
LFS managed to limp by cus of VR, physics, etc but it's stupid to rely on this even 6 months out from now.
Great to see the update but I'll give it a "Done well, but could do so much better. Needs to apply itself"
Lets see what happens
Available since "Mod: Fit mirrors" on horse powered wagons, and 2014 in "Farming Simulator"
http://www.modland.net/farming-simulator-2015/implements-tools/adjustable-mirrors-v1.1.5.html
Seriously, given the 'current, but for how much longer?' physics that LFS offers, where are the modded tracks, etc that the game needs to survive ???
LFS managed to limp by cus of VR, physics, etc but it's stupid to rely on this even 6 months out from now.
Great to see the update but I'll give it a "Done well, but could do so much better. Needs to apply itself"
Lets see what happens
Updated, upgraded and back on track with zero complications.
The new mirrors look amazing in VR, especially when your helmet wanders into view! Having been using the virtual mirror for some time, it took a little while to get used to using side-mirrors again, but it's way easier now that you can change the angle just by moving your head slightly...
Awesome work, Scawen, on what i can only assume was a real mind-bender of a task
The new mirrors look amazing in VR, especially when your helmet wanders into view! Having been using the virtual mirror for some time, it took a little while to get used to using side-mirrors again, but it's way easier now that you can change the angle just by moving your head slightly...
Awesome work, Scawen, on what i can only assume was a real mind-bender of a task
New version 0.6Q - Realistic mirrors, better controller support and more
Hello Racers!
Today we are pleased to announce a new update with graphical improvements, better controller support and more.
The main graphical update is a new system to simulate the mirrors realistically. Each mirror's image is drawn from a separate reflected location, so the interior mirror looks out through the rear window and you can see the sides of your car in the side mirrors. In VR and other 3D modes, a full stereoscopic image is generated for each mirror.
The lighting system for cars has been improved and your own car's shadow is now visible from internal views.
Multiple controller support is simpler to use and you can now easily select a single controller from a list of connected devices. Steering wheel rotation is automatically limited to the correct angle for your selected car.
In "Free view" mode there is a new "walk" option that allows you to wander around in the environment with the view point maintained at eye level. This was designed to help with our development because of the unique view it gives, specially when used in VR mode.
Read all about the update and how to install it on the 0.6Q information page.
- LFS Developers
Today we are pleased to announce a new update with graphical improvements, better controller support and more.
The main graphical update is a new system to simulate the mirrors realistically. Each mirror's image is drawn from a separate reflected location, so the interior mirror looks out through the rear window and you can see the sides of your car in the side mirrors. In VR and other 3D modes, a full stereoscopic image is generated for each mirror.
The lighting system for cars has been improved and your own car's shadow is now visible from internal views.
Multiple controller support is simpler to use and you can now easily select a single controller from a list of connected devices. Steering wheel rotation is automatically limited to the correct angle for your selected car.
In "Free view" mode there is a new "walk" option that allows you to wander around in the environment with the view point maintained at eye level. This was designed to help with our development because of the unique view it gives, specially when used in VR mode.
Read all about the update and how to install it on the 0.6Q information page.
- LFS Developers
Looking good, keep us posted,
found the most issue with braking in VR vis-a-vis getting sick. Acceleration is no issue though
found the most issue with braking in VR vis-a-vis getting sick. Acceleration is no issue though
Well, they're not more or less unrealistic as the chase view. It's a game after all. And how can it be unfair if all players have the same options? That's the exact opposite of unfair.
I would rather see different hardware (steering wheels, displays or VR glasses) as unfair.
I would rather see different hardware (steering wheels, displays or VR glasses) as unfair.
New realistic mirrors
Many of you already know but some probably haven't seen it yet...
There is a new, realistic, mirror system available for testing.
The interior mirror and the side mirrors are rendered from separate viewpoints and you can see your own car in the mirrors. In 3D modes, the mirrors are fully stereoscopic, which is a really nice effect with a VR headset.
We are quite close to release so if you would like to give it a go, follow the link. https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89703
There are also improvements in controller support and a new "walk" option in free view mode.
There is a new, realistic, mirror system available for testing.
The interior mirror and the side mirrors are rendered from separate viewpoints and you can see your own car in the mirrors. In 3D modes, the mirrors are fully stereoscopic, which is a really nice effect with a VR headset.
We are quite close to release so if you would like to give it a go, follow the link. https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89703
There are also improvements in controller support and a new "walk" option in free view mode.
I already think it's a bad idea. I suppose it would be ok for those who have VR headsets, but for the rest of us who use buttons for head movement it's not a particularly good idea.
Nice patch! It´s crazy to see yourself in the mirror when moving the head in VR
However the new 3D mirrors makes it necessary being able to adjust the mirrors. When using a slightly different seat position it´s almost impossible to have a perfect look what happens on the track behind.
An alternative may be to calculate the best mirror setting according to the adjusted seat postition...
However the new 3D mirrors makes it necessary being able to adjust the mirrors. When using a slightly different seat position it´s almost impossible to have a perfect look what happens on the track behind.
An alternative may be to calculate the best mirror setting according to the adjusted seat postition...
I love the proper 3D mirrors, they are huge fun with the DK2. I spent the last hour reverse parking the XRT on Rockingham and Westhill using the mirrors
However it seems that the mismatch between the physics and graphics rate causes discomfort in VR which I don't experience in Assetto Corsa for example.
However it seems that the mismatch between the physics and graphics rate causes discomfort in VR which I don't experience in Assetto Corsa for example.
Test Patch 0.6P3 with realistic mirrors.
Changes from 0.6P2 to 0.6P3 :
Mirrors :
Mirrors are now realistic and include your own car in the image
A separate viewpoint is used to draw each mirror's view
Minor updates to some car models to improve visibility
Mirrors now use the same LOD setting as the main view
Virtual mirror is now available in follow view
VR :
Mirrors now use a full 3D view
Minor graphical updates :
Corrected downward ambient lighting colour (was too bright)
Slight reduction in near clipping plane distance
Multiplayer :
Increased UDP send buffer size from 12KB to 32KB
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89703
Changes from 0.6P2 to 0.6P3 :
Mirrors :
Mirrors are now realistic and include your own car in the image
A separate viewpoint is used to draw each mirror's view
Minor updates to some car models to improve visibility
Mirrors now use the same LOD setting as the main view
Virtual mirror is now available in follow view
VR :
Mirrors now use a full 3D view
Minor graphical updates :
Corrected downward ambient lighting colour (was too bright)
Slight reduction in near clipping plane distance
Multiplayer :
Increased UDP send buffer size from 12KB to 32KB
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89703
It's LFS...........
I do understand the image quality thing but the graphics here are 8 years old. There has been very little (none) work on graphics for cars or tracks apart from S3 stuff and Westhill.
I don't know if 4k for LFS will do it any favours
LFS is really not a graphics wonderfest, it's more about the physics and VR, and VR is a graphical blackhole atm.
That will change in the future but ATM.........
I do understand the image quality thing but the graphics here are 8 years old. There has been very little (none) work on graphics for cars or tracks apart from S3 stuff and Westhill.
I don't know if 4k for LFS will do it any favours
LFS is really not a graphics wonderfest, it's more about the physics and VR, and VR is a graphical blackhole atm.
That will change in the future but ATM.........
I'm hyped for every LFS update, especially graphical ones, even really minor like new road shader, and I even already have an idea of what it can be, and for me it's not VR related
Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd be happy with every update that can improve my LFS experience.
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG