I did see that. It does turn up if you press the key to turn it on.

I meant, are there any other times, and it is a problem that it appears in VR mode when you open a text entry dialog?

As far as I know, the only time it comes up automatically is when you are in VR mode and you open a text entry dialog box. Is it a problem to see a keyboard in that case, or are there other times it shows up unwanted?

A way to stop the VR virtual keyboard from coming up would be nice.

0.6M7 is now available, with more keyboards implemented and an auto-hide system for the crosshairs.

When racing, sometimes there are buttons on screen, like when you show connections (N key) or if there are clickable InSim buttons on screen. Until now, crosshairs were permanently visible in this case, but now they are hidden after a few seconds. When you want to click on something again, just press VR Click or SPACE and it will show the crosshairs. That first click will not activate anything!

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89160

Changes from 0.6M6 to 0.6M7 :

More translation updates, thanks to translators

VR :

Crosshairs auto-hide in game when buttons visible (e.g. N or InSim)

Virtual keyboard :

Added Serbian / Croatian / Slovenian keyboard (QWERTZ)
Added Slovak, Turkish, Bulgarian and Romanian keyboards

Scawen, is there a way to improve the interaction possibilities with few wheel buttons?

For example my wheel has only 2 buttons directly on the wheel. With the new "look and point" feature I have assigned them now to "virtual keyboard" (left button) and "crosshair click" (right button).
Before that, one of the buttons was assigned to "SHIFT+S" during Logitech profiler.

Today I got kicked from a server, because I wasn´t able anymore to quick exit the race after a crash.

My first ideas are heading in this directions:

a) Wheel button doubleclick -> new assignment possibility
b) Wheel button combinations e.g. Button A + Button B -> new assignement possibility

or c) optional one button solution for "look and click"

Let´s assume wheel button X is assigned to virtual keyboard. Then with the same button X you can interact with the menus. Clicking in the background simply leaves the VR Keyboard mode.

Quote from troy :

he mentions that due to LFS' openvr implementation chaperone seems to be always on, so he always sees the green gridlines when he plays lfs.

Quote from Oliver Feistkorn :

A short article about the Vice and LFS.

Thanks for the links and translations.

I believe the chaperone problem is solved in the latest test patches (since 0.6M3). There's something pretty strange / buggy / pointless about the OpenVR chaperone setup for seated experiences, but now the F8 screen offers two options, "reset headset" and "use relative position". I think the first one does solve the Vive chaperone problem (but does not allow the seating position to be saved).

Also the F8 problem has been fixed, because F8 no longer sets the seated position instantly, but instead runs a special setup screen and you can do a "VR Click" on the button using your controller.

The only ones I know are not done now are Korean, Japanese and Turkish.

Anyone who has a keyboard that is not US or UK, please do run LFS and press BKSP (backspace) to show the virtual keyboard. You do not need to be in VR mode to do this!

It should look a lot like your actual keyboard, and you should be able to change your input language in the normal way and see the keyboard change as soon as you do.

Conpatible Test Patch 0.6M4 is available: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89160

Please try out the Virtual Keyboard (press backspace or an assigned controller key). You should be able to operate LFS fully with only a controller and mouse. It's really for VR purposes but anyone else can test it too.

The Virtual Keyboard system now supports for several different keyboard layouts. It should work correctly with most of the main input languages used in LFS, specially the Latin ones. I think a few keys are in the wrong place on Czech keyboard and quite a few out of place in Hungarian. Japanese and Korean virtual keyboards are not supported properly, but will work fine in US English input mode.

Test Patch M4 is available in the first post:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89160-Test-Patch-0-6M2-%28now-M4%29

Please try out the Virtual Keyboard (press backspace or an assigned controller key). You should be able to operate LFS fully with only a controller and mouse. With a VR headset you don't even need the mouse.

There is now special support for several different keyboard layouts. It should work correctly with most of the main input languages used in LFS, specially the Latin ones. I think a few keys are in the wrong place on Czech keyboard and quite a few out of place in Hungarian. Japanese and Korean virtual keyboards are not supported properly, but will work fine in US English input mode.

I´ve tested the new point and click functionality a little longer today. At first I thought I will assign ESC to the left wheel button and OK to the right wheel button (2 buttons only on the G25), but after a while I came to the conclusion that the virtual keyboard on the left button is the better choice, because there are simply more possibilities than with ESC.

In the end the implementation in this iteration is great as it is. Maybe in future we can interact in this way with the cockpit (ignition, horn, speed limiter etc...) ?

I am more worried about the new view reset mode. I fear it might be a little motion sickness inducing for VR newbies, because the whole world is moving. In the past I closed my eyes, did a reset of the view and opened my eyes again.

What about this idea? During reset keep the world as it is and render a second model of the world in wireframe mode which is perfectly aligned/attached to the HMD. After ok the old world fades out and the wireframe world fades with colors in? But to be honest I have no idea if this could work and is better than the current solution

Last edited by just2fast, Tue 15 Mar 2016, 23:28.

I've done these Latin keyboards:

US
UK / Ireland
German
Swiss
French
Belgian
Finnish / Swedish / Norwegian / Danish
Spanish
Canadian
Dutch
Italian
Brazil
Portugal

And their dead keys (for accents) work too, also the Alt Gr key.

That does cover most LFS users though there are exceptions.
http://www.lfsworld.net/?win=racer_search&whichTab=stats

Any that are not done default to a US keyboard layout so it does work but they are missing a few keys.
Notably, non-Latin characters are not displayed at all yet.

I think that's all the keyboards I can do for now.
Tomorrow I'd better get onto some other code as time is short for VR coding...

Last edited by Scawen, Wed 16 Mar 2016, 11:30. Reason : added Belgian and Ireland

Nice update Scawen ! Too bad I can't try LFS with VR

From what I saw while people trying LFS in VR, it seems really "harsh", no tweening, no screenfade, etc. You should consider these in the future, they greatly improve the feel of a finished product and hurt less eyes in VR (for example a screen fade on when going from menu to the start of a race).

Quote from Scawen :

Test Patch 0.6M3 is now available.

For VR users it has a look and click feature and a virtual keyboard. You can assign Click, Escape and Virtual Keyboard to controller buttons so you can operate LFS without keyboard or mouse.

The virtual keyboard is also available for non-VR users, so you can control LFS without the keyboard. You will still need a mouse.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89160

I had only a few minutes to test the new "look and click" feature, but WOW now lfs really is 100% VR ready!

I will continue testing tomorrow.

One first side note maybe. I think the feeling for the crosshair would be better if it wouldn´t get stuck at the edge of the virtual screen. I would still render the crosshair outside the screen, but instead of rendering to infinity when lookin at 90° I would slowly fade out the crosshair after leaving the screen area. So let´s say at around 30%-50% (measured in % of screenwidth) outside of the screen the crosshair finally is invisible. Maybe it´s hard to implement and you have better things to do at the moment .

Quote from cargame.nl :

Also wondering if central position is most ideal position. But others need to say something about it I guess.

With an VR device I find it useful to have it in the middle of the screen, because you click "with the nose".

Last edited by just2fast, Mon 14 Mar 2016, 23:31. Reason : typo

Oh and I have a samsung galaxy S4 is it compatible ? for fluid vr movements and stuff ?

I think so, because anything which uses the text entry dialog will have the virtual keyboard shown automatically in VR mode.

Test Patch 0.6M3 is now available.

For VR users it has a look and click feature and a virtual keyboard. You can assign Click, Escape and Virtual Keyboard to controller buttons so you can operate LFS without keyboard or mouse.

The virtual keyboard is also available for non-VR users, so you can control LFS without the keyboard. You will still need a mouse.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89160

Last edited by Scawen, Sat 12 Mar 2016, 18:48. Reason : typo

Test Patch 0.6M3 is now available.

For VR users it has a look and click feature and a virtual keyboard. You can assign Click, Escape and Virtual Keyboard to controller buttons so you can operate LFS without keyboard or mouse.

The virtual keyboard is also available for non-VR users, so you can control LFS without the keyboard. You will still need a mouse.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89160

Last edited by Scawen, Sat 12 Mar 2016, 18:49. Reason : typo

For me the one of the biggest things people overlook with VR headsets is the scale. When we play racing games on all kinds of different sized screens the cars we are racing are completely different scales to what we would see if we were racing in real life. While wearing a HMD everything is 1:1 scale. So if a racing car overtakes you closely it just looks real. Maybe not in terms of pixels or graphics but deffo in terms of scale and the 3d effect.

Another way to explain this or see it for yourself if you have access to a rift is to try a cinema app. Although the screen door effect and pixels are low, the fact that you feel in a massive cinema makes the screen seem like a real 50 foot wide screen. Even though actually the screen in the HMD is about 5 inches.

Quote from Amynue :

Video showing Vive's passthrough camera in action:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnciEkUDnhs

I'm impressed!

But I'm afraid it just looks impressive seeing someone else's video wearing it...


Oculus Rift for example, I saw people on youtube wearing it and complementing nonstop, I thought it would be something from another world, something incredible...

So I went and tested the DK2 from one friend, thank god I tested before buying...

I tried it on LFS and AC, and I just couldn't feel anything close to those people on youtube, specially because I was able to count each pixel...

After that the only conclusion I came was that those people were acting, and now I just can't believe on any of this "VR magic" when someone is having uber fun wearing it...

Last edited by Specht77, Fri 11 Mar 2016, 04:20.

It turns out, whoever was in the Oculus with the G27 handily beat whoever was on the big TV with the G25. I'm sure I could get used to driving on a monitor and get on pace again, as that's how I used to do it anyway, but after a few months of using the Rift, it feels somewhat detached and remote playing on a 2D plane out in front of you. Maybe I just need to play about with the FOV to get the same sense of speed back or something. Maybe it's just psychological, but there was a clear advantage for both of us being on one setup vs the other, even with identical wheel settings etc.

His PC now just needs a PSU and a GPU, and later on in the year, whichever VR headset seems to be looking the better option. Then we can have a proper fight.

Ah thanks, I haven't seen that particular message as I am not interested in VR my self. But I do agree that it is important to have it working flawless in LFS in order to try and get more people in.

He's working on better VR support:

Quote from Scawen :

Yes, I am working on VR features. As both Vive and Rift are shipping within a month, this has become the most important thing. Tyre physics can wait another month.

A good VR implementation with all the wrinkles ironed out will help bring in more users and that will be good for everyone. It's not possible to be in Steam, for reasons discussed before, but Valve have kindly supported us by sending Vives and we can be fully up to date with the software. On the Rift side, I have been in touch with Oculus and there is still a possibility of having LFS in the Oculus store. This is ongoing and I won't be able to say any more because if there was any more information, it would be under NDA. You'll just have to leave that to me, I'm working on it.

One requirement is that it must be possible to operate the game with a controller only. For the last two days I have worked on a system that draws a crosshair in the view centre and allows you to click buttons using the space bar. Obviously this "Click" function needs to be assignable to a controller button. At first I thought this task would be a few hours but the complexity is quite surprising. Various adaptations and improvements have become necessary. I think the only other buttons that are needed are "Escape" and "Show Virtual Keyboard". These will soon be available in a compatible test patch.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1904918#post1904918

I don't know if I'll ever own a vr unit, but, as if anyone cares what I think, it's good for LFS to be connected with this.

Quote from Scawen :

Yeah, I don't know why they display a chaperone if the program asks for seated mode. And why it's offset in front and to the left, after setting it up at the actual seated position. Seems buggy to me.

I remember that in the past you were using the Vive DK1 with one basestation because the second one was faulty. So right know are you using one or two basestations? Maybe it's not optimized for one-basestation-setup. All the videos I've seen of people using the Vive had always two basestations. Before you said you are using it with one, I thought that wouldn't even work.
I was also wondering - does the basestations automaticaly turn on and off when you are using the headset or do you have to turn them on and off manualy?

Quote from Scawen :

Tyre physics can wait another month.

I'm pretty sure some people will have a different opinion on that, they should be there shortly...

Quote from Scawen :

On the Rift side, I have been in touch with Oculus and there is still a possibility of having LFS in the Oculus store. This is ongoing and I won't be able to say any more because if there was any more information, it would be under NDA.

That would be great. On the launch day thousands of people will get their Rifts and once they are done playing with the bundled games they will go to the Oculus store to search for something new and there will be like 100 games at most (my guess), so there is a very high chance that they'll run into LFS. Free demo is very inviting.

I was expecting that you will be under NDA since I can't see any developer talking much about their Rift CV1 or Touch devkits beyond the fact that they have it. So... just nod your head if you are getting the Rift CV1 and SDK 1.0 before the launch.

Quote from Scawen :

One requirement is that it must be possible to operate the game with a controller only. For the last two days I have worked on a system that draws a crosshair in the view centre and allows you to click buttons using the space bar. Obviously this "Click" function needs to be assignable to a controller button.

Even if they wouldn't require that, I think it still would be worth implementing. It's hard to locate and operate your mouse and keyboard with the headset on.


Are you going to do anything with the Oculus Audi SDK in the future? I think that good postional audio is very important in VR and it's a big immersion multiplier.

"Yes, I am working on VR features. As both Vive and Rift are shipping within a month, this has become the most important thing. Tyre physics can wait another month."
======
What? You said THAT? YOU? You and them damned tire physics? Nah. Say it isn't so.....

This is ongoing and I won't be able to say any more because if there was any more information, it would be under NDA. You'll just have to leave that to me, I'm working on it.
+++++
NDAs can sorta suck. I can't go into half of what my son does because of them.
That sucks too. Get a kid that does something cool and you can't brag on them.

If you want to do something cool with the occulus in mind Scawen, you should try to design a track that takes advantage of the "dizziness" factor from wearing those goggles.
A race game really looks good and performs pretty good with them. But I noticed it lacked the illusion of G forces. Going around corners was about the same as it is going around corners using a conventional monitor set-up. Where as on a roller coaster simulator, it didn't just look all 3d, it kind of felt that way too.