+1. Should not be too hard in reality. If the type tries to move outside a bounding box area it rubs.

It would force people to pick between exterme lowered cars and steering lock. More you drop it the more you have to think about rub.

Quote from MAD3.0LT :

most of the REAL drifters i know hate locked diff's and i agree with them a proper lsd is better for drifting and racing but not everyone wants to spend 2500$ + just on a lsd center so a locker is a good option.


PS i had a 900$ lsd setup in my track car it lasted 1 week and thats with only 330HP at the wheels

Yep, when you push cars its not kind on the hardware

As this is LFS and cost does not figure it is hard to understand why locked diffs rate highly in wr charts. It does highlight there is an issue in the tires or drivetrain somewhere.

We will know when it is fixed because the majority will pick lsd over locked instead of the current reversed situation

Quote from danthebangerboy :

Really???

Locked diffs DO rule in real life, as instead of having drive to the inside wheel only, which will be spinning its life away with no weight on it, what you got with a locked diff is the outside wheel that does have weight on it also being driven, thus putting the power down on the track.

I have driven both front and rear wheel drive cars with locked diffs in real life, and as long as you can become accustomed to having scrubbed out tyres, a bit more understeer with a FWD, or sudden snap oversteer with a RWD then it is beneficial grip wise, as you can put power down instead of having pretty much 1 wheel drive in corners.

The spinning wheel you talk of is an open diff. These are nasty but cheap and "safe" for joe public.

A limited slip diff is preferable to locked diff unless you are drifting. It sends power to the outer wheel when it does "slip" so allows you to get power down BUT also helps you corner.

I would also add that hooked up to something like a 301 platform and an open SouthCity and it could be used for far more

One of the things LFS really teaches you is anticipation of problems and how to avoid them. You watch and are in so many incidents in LFS that it improves prediction no end.

Last edited by Woz, Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:58.

I just use Paint.NET now. Great free app.

Quote from ADX.14 :

Thanks for advice but the answer is too simple. Tyre modelling is discussable topic and LFS physics is not final given. So there is nothing with being slower or faster. We don't assess racing tips or adapting the existing physics. Maybe KB and steering wheel gap is biggest in Patch Z. So it depends on the user. And labelling someone's idea as silly doesn't make you more clever.

As we all keep saying though, its not the amount of grip as that is actually over done at the mo. It is more the dynamics at the edge of grip that need tweaks.

Trist is right, if you are always skidding in corners you are going too fast so slow down. This also holds true IRL although fear of injury normally stops people over driving in this situation

So not more grip, better definition of the dynamics of grip at the point of slip!

Quote from XCNuse :

On the subject of skid marks (.. that came out wrong didn't it?)
Lol, how skidmarks are made is currently wrong, Takumi.. someone, the user, had an entire thread pointing out how the skidmarks were made at wrong times etc.

I doubt I will ever be able to find that thread again though.

But anyways, as Tristan stated, the tires aren't exactly made for low speeds right now giving us a multitude of problems, hopefully one day they will be solved.

Yep, I know what you mean now There are lots of times no rubber should be left.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

Im unsure of that as when i received it i only got the password. I left all the rest alone. I do know the password though...

You DAD needs to contact the devs NOT you. He needs to prove who he is.

Quote from The Very End :

Try various cars in LFS, various setups, you still get the same. Doesn't seem right to me, but well

Now set an open diff in those cars and try again and see what it does.

Open diffs are a crock of shite for performance but make mum type shopping cars safe for people that will never tr to push for that extra 1/10th of a sec.

That said, there are issues with the tires because locked diffs should also be a crock of shite on the track but in LFS they still rule.

Currently I am reading the LFS forum. A thread called "What are you Reading...?"

I have said this before but to make LFS more "real" you need to simulate FEAR of a crash into the driver.

Just see people stop over driving their LFS cars when they are connected up to electrodes that pump 1000s of volts of juice through in proportion to the force of any impact lol

All bitching and moaning about not enough grip would stop over night ROTF



For me though the KEY thing that needs to be added is a live track where you get rubber marble build up off the line on corner approach etc. A constant changing track surface would transform all the LFS tracks.

The other thing to remember is that 99.9999999% of the cars most people have driven in their lives have an OPEN diff.

The other diffs present in LFS have a huge difference in dynamics on how you gain and lose grip when you are close to the limit. They have been designed to allow you to put down the most power at all times.

An open diff on the other had is designed so that "average joe public" who normally never get near edge of traction have some hope of catching the car.

Also if you use the option enabled in LFS that looks with steering input you will find it far far harder to notice the "snap" of grip regain. With the view locked forwards you notice it more.

Lets face it most of what you are trying to detect though is feeling of G through your body. I remember ages ago the developers of the 301 platform said that when driving with motion so you can feel this stuff better so you tend to overdrive less.

With LFS you only really notice the transistion of grip AFTER it has happened. By the time you feel the back go through the FF is a massive amount of time after the back has gone in car dynamics point of view. There needs to have been enough "slip" at the back to cause the front wheels to try and track and hence cause the counter rotation you feel.

IRL you feel these changes in G instantly so can correct far far sooner, normally before the back has gone too far. This leads to less tire overheating so less loss of grip.

With sim racing unless you have a motion platform you have to learn to read what you are asking from the car and predict the edge, not rely on the FF to tell you. The FF becomes more an aid. I try and imagine what I am asking of each time for every input and play this through the "circle of grip" as I play.

As for setups. A road car setup is for safety and comfort hence will always be slower around a track than the more firm and snappy snappy sets used in racing where driver comfort is actually the last thing that actually matters. A firmer setup has less mechanical grip than a soft but reacts to imput faster to allow faster reaction and correction which is required while racing to get fast times.

Last edited by Woz, Wed, 8 Jul 2009 04:34.

vsync DOES NOT effect graphics quality AT ALL!

How can it be ugly with it turned off. The ONLY effect you will see is tearing but as this is not an FPS with snap like movements you should not even see that!

Quote from XCNuse :

I know HT isn't that efficient, but it still works with multiple core code is all I was getting at with that.. (since LFS has always been careful to include as low possible spec computers as possible!)

HT is a complete bodge by Intel to pretend there are multiple cores when this is not true. Each "pretend" core shares resources so only one action occurs at a time as per single core CPU. The only gain is context switch speed.

Net result is HT is faster sometimes and slower others.

The main issue with multiple threads is all the sync work that is required to keep everything in line.

Thread based programming can be very error prone and difficult to debug. The tools are getting better but deadlocks and overwritten data are the main fights from how I see it.

If LFS was not created with threads taken into account it could be a fair amount of work pulling everything apart so the correct sync logic can be implemented.

Quote from NightShift :

For some I'd say even in the 1300-1500 range not many computer wheels can go that far up, and none of them is exactly cheap.

900 is probably the working best. We have 900 wheels and they are probably the best you will get TBH. Making the lock more will just bugger up the wheel turn comp.

Quote from NightShift :

He could have made that change along with the interiors/models upgrade which affected replays nonetheless. Since there was no change I assume it's not very high in the list of the priorities or there's some other reason that made him change his mind about making 900° available on those cars.

To make the wheel turn 900degs required new driver animations as the current animations run to 720 max. This is why they were held off in the round of patches when the TBO balance was done.

Back on to the 900 lock issue. The highest in game lock in LFS for any car is 720, this just too low. Many road cars the TBO are based on have lock up in the 1080 area.

As the DFP/G25 top out at 900 and they are the best you will get it makes sense for LX4, LX6?, FZ5, RAC?, TBO, GT, GTi and UF1 to 900.

It has come up a number of times over the years. I did manage to get an answer from Scawen a while back on it and the change requires driver animation changes and will make replays incompatible etc so not sure when it will make it in.

Might be the new VW forces the point because that will not have 720 steering lock!

Quote from Equinox :

Incorrect.

Project Reality - A mod for Battlefield2 also contains suppression effects. (Unless you want to be all uber say OMG ONLY GAMES NO MODZ PLZ)

www.realitymod.com

Never played BF2 so didnt know.

Win7 should be free if you have had to suffer Vista.

Win7 is NOTHING more than Vista SP2 with a new skin.

Its like the old Win95 vs Win98 farce. If you had a patched 95 there was not much of a difference between that and a 98 box.

BTW: NEVER EVER touch a MS OS until SP1. NEVER! You are REAL dumb unless you follow this well known rule!

Quote from DragonCommando :

I honestly think if you want some mil-sim, go for Insurgency:M.I.C. It's a source mod so its on steam. You can download it directly from steam now too, provided you already own a source game.


Insurgency isn't perfect, but there isn't one combat game that I have played that's perfect, not even ArmA.

Insurgency has a minimal Hud aproach, so you only have what you need. Basicaly a compas and objective markers, and a mag count when you reload. No health and no crosshairs.

Some things arn't finnished, but they are actively working on improvements, and the sightless shooting is realy nice, the gun free aims untill you bring up the sights. The only thing that doesn't sight properly is the M203, but they are working on it.

I had a firefight that lasted five minutes, I was pinned down behind the hood of a pickup truck and had to wait for help. I only survived because I remembered that 7.62x39r won't go through an engine block, so I hid behind the engine.

The thing I love about insurgency is that you can actually pin people behind cover because of the suppression fire effects, unique in a combat game as far as I know

Sounds like I should hold off on AA3 for a bit. For those who have HL2 and want a great combat game try the Insurgency mod.. Great game.


I have very mixed feelings on Steam. It does have some good features, such as friends lists, chat, auto updates etc BUT its primary purpose is DRM. Anyone that denies this has their head in the sand.

Here is an example of the bad side... I purchased GTA IV in good faith believing my system was up to it. Could not get the game running no matter the settings/tweaks. Any attempt to ask about refunds resulting in my support questions being closed without answer. Attempts to re-open the questions got the same. No emails at all were answered on the subject. I was just stonewalled.

I thought about disputing the CC charges until I found that could result in my account being closed, hence all my Steam DRM controlled games being taken away from me.

Steam is DRM, in the same way LFS World is a DRM because you need to connect to really use the software. The key difference with Steam is there is a single point of failure for ALL your games. If something happens to Valve kiss your entire games list goodbye. But that would never happen right... lol

Quote from Fordman :

YAY another one almost as old as me Your not getting my point. I know the updates etc etc, as I do keep an eye on here, but just saying about the state of the servers and the racing. Unless ( before somebody jumps on me here ) you race a well organised event, which are usually 100% clean as possible, there was certain places where one, i.e me, say a new customer could come along, have a race, and think, shit this is fun, race some more, tell some friends....hmmm like how S1 was build

Now if, and I say IF i was a new customer, raced for the first time today, I would not be saying the above.

Trust me, I am not bitchin and moaning, just heavly surprised thats all, and just woundered what other LFS people thought about it. If I found this in 1-2 days, what on earth do you guys think that have stuck with it since day dot?

Regards

Fordie

I check in from time to time but have not connected/raced in a while now. I just proved too hard to find good races down here in NZ, too few racers, and after CTRA closed shop the only real serious race servers went. I hope that S3 kick starts another CTRA type system.

The new VW, if it ever gets released , will be interesting as fixed setup. Might re-kindle the fun battles where GTi or TBO races were easy to find.

I have listened to this stunning take on the Radiohead track "Exit Music" by Jack Conte a fair bit. He out does Thom York!

His Gorillaz cover has really grown on me as well.

I am near Christchurch (South Island about 1/2 way down) and it hits -5 ish. Further down they get hoarfrosts so can get v cold.

Its not British Columbia cold though, The only time I experienced -27C was in Whistler