Sarcasm + internet = fail

Sarcasm + internet + brain = pass

yeah i'll join....digi speedos was A fun era but hey... its cool

okay LFS racers beware of my slow (clean) racing as i'm using aa logitech rumblepad 2 thank you

Quote from Xenoxiduis :

yeah i'll join....digi speedos was A fun era but hey... its cool

okay LFS racers beware of my slow (clean) racing as i'm using aa logitech rumblepad 2 thank you

I commend you on your clean racing however its a little ironic that your joining the "more realistic" gang and racing with a rumblepad hehe

I don't need to join any club or gang, we lost some really great features (some only very small) and realistic seems to be what the masses (most/some of whom have never really driven anything resembling a "racecar".

SD.

GLAD TO!!

Quote from SparkyDave :

I commend you on your clean racing however its a little ironic that your joining the "more realistic" gang and racing with a rumblepad hehe

I don't need to join any club or gang, we lost some really great features (some only very small) and realistic seems to be what the masses (most/some of whom have never really driven anything resembling a "racecar".

SD.

I've been around brands hatch in my Focus does that count

Getting a G25 soon so i will be all over the place for a few laps until i get it all sorted not to mention burning the clutch out.

Yup, LFS can never be totally real until it somehow gets us on a real car with accurate forces acting on every part of it (including g-forces, vibrations, shocks etc), but you'll now know that considering the limitations above (a bit of a given, so I don't think LFS can be blamed ) it's not far off really is it.

A few tweaks to the tyres (make them snap more when they regain 'grip', improve the mixing of long/lat forces, and reduce the benefit of spinning the wheels at the start (locking wheels gives the correct effect)), and a few tweaks here and there are all it needs to be pretty much spot on (within reason).

Extras - damage, simulation of more components, simulation of more situations (weather, marbles, loose surfaces) can only add to that in the long term, but without the basics there is no point having all the extras.

+1 for as much realism as possible

No, I don't agree. Some things in real life can't easily be 'ported' to a computer setup. Take starting the car. In real life you get in, do up your belts (or have someone help), flick three, four, five or more toggle switches. Maybe turn a key, whilst pumping the throttle, with your foot on the clutch. That doesn't come across easily on a computer. You either get mouse controls (and end up with the nasty netKar Pro way of doing things that is just laughable and not AT ALL realistic), or you assign keyboard buttons to each 'command', but that's not very real either.

Some concessions HAVE to be made. Starting the car HAS to be simplified or made unrealistic in some way. Do people want 'telepit'? Hardly realistic, but who wants to play a game when you have to get back to the pits in a realistic manner. Sure, it might be fun walking 5 miles back from a spin/stall the first time, or waiting for a recovery vehicle, but we're playing a game and that would just end up silly.

Then you get to the car maintainance - nobody wants to go through hour upon hour of setup work and repairs for half an hour of track time. So 'magically' we get a brand new car. Even 'real time' repairs and setups don't work well, because they aren't actually real time, and being on a computer they don't cause the same impact somehow...

Ultra-ultra realism is too far given current PCs if you want the game to be vaguely entertaining. Having some 'hardcore' features are good if they are optional, but there's a fine line between good hardcore and ludicrous hardcore.

You said it perfectly there Tristan, something that I wanted to say myself.
Even as I love realism (but point and laugh, chaseveiw :rolleyes: ), it still needs to be a game.. some things are better to be done in the real thing, instead of sitting behind a monitor trying to simulate the real thing.

LFS is for me, pretty realistic allready, but going all-out will maybe make it very realistic, but it would kill the fun by it, because there would be not enough people that had the skills to actually race propper.

I think that if LFS (or any other sim) actually got to the point where the only marked difference between the sim and the simulated was that you couldn't actually die from some horrible crash, that would be pretty damn awesome. I can't expect something like that in my lifetime.. I think any sim over the next 100 years will necessarily diverge from reality over many finer points of detail, but it's still pretty interesting to think about how close things could get without it becoming silly, as Tristan points out. Imagine future tools that would allow people to build their own virtual engines and cars from the ground up, with materials that are physically accurate for properties such as strengh, weight, stiffness and so on. Maybe simulated crash testing software for new cars is already bringing us closer to this possibility?

Also...

(I was going to write something about connecting simulations and fun, but I'm too tired now and I couldn't find a way to close my thoughts on this. Maybe another day).

I started my simulation "career with momo and LFS. I played LFS for half a year and then I found a good rFactor league and tried it out. When I drove rfactor LFS felt very unrealistic and arcade... So now I bought a new wheel (dfgt) and tried LFS out with it ofcourse. Man it made sense! With 900 degreas wheel driving feels many times more realistic, so my opinion has changed a bit

Quote from joon@s :

when i drove rfactor lfs felt very unrealistic and arcade...

rotflmao

Quote from buck77 :

rotflmao

I`d rotflmao the other way. All sims offer something different. I`ve found plenty things in many rFactor mods that are better than LFS offers. I`ve also found several things in LFS better than rFactor. Same for RBR, GTL, GTR2, NKP, etc.

There`s no perfect sim, and no one sim that offers full realism over another.

Quote from unseen :

I`d rotflmao the other way. All sims offer something different. I`ve found plenty things in many rFactor mods that are better than LFS offers. I`ve also found several things in LFS better than rFactor. Same for RBR, GTL, GTR2, NKP, etc.

There`s no perfect sim, and no one sim that offers full realism over another.

now i have to agree with you!

but have you tried iRacing?

Getting a bit off-topic, but no. Like I said, All sims offer something different. iRacing has a pay to play business model I`m not a fan of. I know there are free trials available, but I`m not willing to pay for the way I drive sims.

I prefer to drive for the fun of driving, not usually competitively, and I`m more of a modder, than a racer. I do enjoy racing, but not enough to justify regularly pulling more money out my pocket that could well go towards paying bills, real life, etc

It may offer something else again, that the others don`t, but the pay to play part of it is something bad it has, that the others don`t

Well there's one sim that is in it's own class... I'm talking about Grand Prix Legends of course

That class being "quite good 11 years ago, but dated now"?

I have said this before but to make LFS more "real" you need to simulate FEAR of a crash into the driver.

Just see people stop over driving their LFS cars when they are connected up to electrodes that pump 1000s of volts of juice through in proportion to the force of any impact lol

All bitching and moaning about not enough grip would stop over night ROTF



For me though the KEY thing that needs to be added is a live track where you get rubber marble build up off the line on corner approach etc. A constant changing track surface would transform all the LFS tracks.

Quote from Woz :

I have said this before but to make LFS more "real" you need to simulate FEAR of a crash into the driver.

Just see people stop over driving their LFS cars when they are connected up to electrodes that pump 1000s of volts of juice through in proportion to the force of any impact lol

LOL this would be awesome.. And quite dangerous, even with low amperage, high voltage shocks can be reaaally dangerous :P
Find a better, more safe idea and it might be made

It would actually be really simple to output g-forces as a signal through a USB port, so any device could use this information to 'punish' the user :smash3d:

Also, weather (rain) and NIGHT driving. Now we're talking.

Quote from Joon@s :

When I drove rfactor LFS felt very unrealistic and arcade...

After i drove a bit on rFactor, i went out. Reality felt really arcade and unrealistic.

Quote from Woz :

For me though the KEY thing that needs to be added is a live track where you get rubber marble build up off the line on corner approach etc. A constant changing track surface would transform all the LFS tracks.

I was thinking the same thing 2 days ago...LFS already has visible rubber buildup on tracks which I love. If they could somehow get that to affect the track's grip, that'd propel the game to a whole other level of realism.

Quote from Joon@s :

Well there's one sim that is in it's own class... I'm talking about Grand Prix Legends of course

Quote from tristancliffe :

That class being "quite good 11 years ago, but dated now"?

So would that put LFS, in the "quite good 3 years ago" class, when patch T was released, fixing the previously bad physics? I haven't seen much progress in the physics since then, other than adding some forms of damage like the poor clutch overheating model.

It won't be long before games like rFactor 2 and possibly NFS Shift surpass LFS in terms of realism.

In the case of GPL, I still think it's an excellent sim. The cars are essentially LX6's with 400hp combined with more forgiving bias ply racing tires, with real tracks, or at least real historical tracks.

i am SO in!

Quote from JeffR :

So would that put LFS, in the "quite good 3 years ago" class, when patch T was released, fixing the previously bad physics? I haven't seen much progress in the physics since then, other than adding some forms of damage like the poor clutch overheating model.

It would if LFS wasn't still right at the top (or very near the top) of the list of realistic simulators, and wasn't currently in development.

GPL was surpassed years ago. One day LFS will be surpassed too. It won't be rFactor that does the surpassing.