@Nick Brad

Quote :

What does S2 offer me specifically beyond what I can do in the demo?

Well,
- for a start the different cars act differently depending on engine power and tyre (selection) performance, tuning and fuel load. It's a bit different driving an XFG compared to a LX4, FXO, XRT, FZ, F1BMW... etc etc... (21 in total)
- tracks are different in bumps, breaking points, apexes etc... etc... (total of 54 configurations)
- ppl online are different on various tracks - we all have our favourite tracks and tend to beat opponents on our own fav-track and loose against opponents having other fav-tracks - it's a matter of practice and the time spent on learning the track. This is what make LFS so great!
- the way you can customize your own wheel/gearbox setup is outstanding
- LFS desktop keep track of your data (and everybody elses...)
- InSim provides an unbeatable way to develop custom series/rules/fun sessions
- incredible FPS allows for great movie makers to share amazing videos of past races and drift sessions...

Anyway, I see why you long for Rockingham, and I'm sure it'll be out for public use some day - hey, they laser-scanned this environment, so it's bound to be exiting!

Check back around midsummer 2011 and see if Rockingham has arrived. Meanwhile, grow older towards 40 without us! (no offence... I'm there before you :razz

@Nick Brad,
I can understand why you long for more content as a demo driver - but there is a solution for that: buy S2. Content and great opponents will multiply by the tenths and hundreds, respectively. And so will the fun and enjoyment.

There is just no comparison between S2 and Demo in terms of fun online racing simulation. Take it as an advice. You are the one missing out on great racing sessions. Come and join us! Thousands of racers are using your unfinished bathroom every day/night and having a blast!

Let the devs finish the update - meanwhile, join us at Aston.

Thanks for the update Scawen!
Sounds very interesting (and frustrating programming-wise) when such details are considered.

Keep up the good work - Happy New Year LFS! - and may 2011 bring some tyre modelling progress at your office, and perhaps even in the public.

If you are one of those impatient racers, maybe you should consider the following

Last edited by Ingolf, Tue 28 Dec 2010, 20:53.

I'll be testing on the longer tracks and also compare with your approach. Interesting

EDIT: Have now been testing for quite a while and with some close LFS friends. This is purely awesome. Just what I/we needed. The different formulas can still be tweeked, but some of them work really well. We keep track of score via SQL and are quite happy with that. Hopefully, I can learn more (when I have time) to develop this into a better recording sytem after the next tyre physics update.

Last edited by Ingolf, Mon 3 Jan 2011, 21:20.

Ah, thx sinanju. I'll try that plugin to view storedvalue.dbs

I have been playing around with some balancing of the formula. Below (DS01.png) is one result that is simple yet quite ok.
DS=(($DP))/($LP^5))*10E6)
The emphasis is clearly on reducing the Drift Score using a power of 5 in the Lap Time. That way, you are forced to make "pretty fast laps", yet with a good drift point. Hence keep full control of speed and drift - a balance that is rewarding in itself when playing.

In the example figure there are some
Key characteristics:

Test parameters setup (typical for South City Classic)
X-axis - Lap time interval: 58-68 seconds
Y-axis - Drift Point range: 3000-9000 points
Z-axis - Drift Skill: 0-140 points (this may vary a bit...)

In the figure we can see that:
1) The rate of change in Drift Skill (DS) gets larger with lower lap times, and/or
2) higher drift points raises drift skill more and more the faster you go.

I tried several other approaches that seem to work fine. One that I liked was to simply reduce the laptime by a factor given from the Drift Point. That reduction would correspond to the Drift skill and is only a set of seconds subtracted from the lap time. You can ofcourse also express that reduction in percent of total lap time. A funny idea that I am working on a little bit more. I'll get back on that later.

EDIT: Looks like this now...
$DS5=round(10*((1-(($LP-((($DP/100)^3)/($LP)))/$LP))),1);
Testing several tracks now, and it seems promising at the moment...

Last edited by Ingolf, Wed 10 Nov 2010, 23:50.

Beautiful work sinanju,
I've been off line for a week due to loads of work, however I'll have a go on your different versions now and some more testing.

sinanju wrote:

Quote :

At the moment, the only thing I could think of is that you have some sort of external way of showing the scores (maybe on a website), by taking the information out of the database, e.g.

Yes! This is what I can do. I keep track on the record table via matlab. Nice progress!

Quote :

...it will save in the standard LFSLapper database, which is $StoredValueDbs (= "storedvalue"; # Name of the database in which additional values are stored).

I am a bit braindead/confused, but what is the "standard LFSLapper database"?

In LFSLapper.lpr I find:
$StoredValueDbs = "storedvalue"; # Name of the database in which additional values are stored
so I guess that's where the data go (storedvalue.dbs)?

Do we need to add some lines in the LFSLapper.lpr? Like for the DriftPB:
$DriftDatabase = "./DriftPB";

Cheers,
Broms

Last edited by Ingolf, Tue 9 Nov 2010, 11:57.

yeah, I havn't had much success on the database issue either. I've done reading, but still have a long way to go.

For now Im quite happy tho, since you provided the tools for me to work on the formula. Lots of fun and testing

Also an interesting way of doing it ^^. I will have to have a go on it so see how it feels and if it correspond to what I would expect after a "succeesful" driflap vs a "failed" driftlap.

dygear, I'm not sure exactly how you would use the track length, but I guess it could be something else to experiment with. Do you mean the defined and constant track length or the distance the car has traveled during a lap?

yes, thx, I just went a few laps around on your server and watched the dskill... looks good.

Funny thing was as I tried out my own formula:

$DS5 = round(($DP/100)*(($AS^2)/$LP),0);

...the values came really close to your number 4.

Sometimes just a little bit less, and sometimes a little bit more... in the decimals. No matter how I behaved.

Must do some calculations on that.

Thx for the layout tips - very useful.
For the moment I am tuning the SpeedDrift formula and it feels almost perfect after 100 laps on 3 different tracks. I normalized my formula above to span ranges of 0-20 pts instead of 20 000 pts.

I really appreciate your help sinanju, it adds to LFS what is already in the game but not accessible. Now it is!

Ok, starting to get a good combination of speed and drift now using:

$DS5 = round(($DP/100)*(($AS^2)/$LP),0);

It slowly turns into what I am looking for: Speed + Drift.

It seems with this setup you can't zig-zag down a straight, and you have to keep up a good speed in the turns as well. Have only tested it on 2 tracks so far (about 20 laps in South City). The score itself is in the range of 1000's but its ok for now - might scale/normalize it later on.

Will post some more evaluation results shortly.

Last edited by Ingolf, Tue 26 Oct 2010, 18:15.

Mathewrobinson,
it is hard to understand what you are requesting. Quoting from the online manual InSim is:

"...a service that can connect to your LFS host via InSim and relay the InSim information sent by your host, to anyone who connects to the InSim Relay. This relayed data can be used by programmers for various things, such as the LFS Remote (remote viewing / adminning of a race) and race-tracking to store race information and statistics."

I guess you are looking for a server that has implemented InSim functions corresponding to your wishlist? If so, maybe you should search the forum for cruise servers in action.

You can find more info here on how InSim works:
http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/InSim_Tutorials

Call this guy...



Seriously, it is hard to understand what you mean. Requesting towing on a cruise server? Start by explaining what the abbrevation TOW stands for in your world. Hopefully we can help you then.

Cheers

Last edited by Ingolf, Tue 26 Oct 2010, 14:46.

Really nice work there sinanju!

Quote :

The scoring system will work as long as a complete lap of any circuit is made (that's why I put it in the OnLap event section).

I figured the starting and finishing line need to be well defined, but it works if custom track is setup properly. Perfect!

About the table not implemented (!dskill)

Quote :

This is because, as yet, there's is no database set up for the !dskill command to interrogate and list results.

Yes I thought so (work in progress ).

Quote :

The dskills.lpr will need new database setup (bit like Yisc[NL]'s database for his pitboard).
Unfortunately, this database setup is probably the thing I can't do.

Can't do everything m8! I'll look into it and see if I can get my hands on it.

The main thing is I/we got a tool to tune scoring depending on the variables I was after and this is excellent! I'll be coming back with some feedback and input when I get some verdicts on the system (from other clients).

It would be sweet if you could provide the dskill.lpr that shows that last dskill_button.png (lower panel) with the score in large bold red font. I like that!
Thanks for the examples on building buttons! I'll dive into it straight away!

I will also test the different formulas you have provided in the test-sheet and especially your favourite ones.

many cheers!
/Broms

Last edited by Ingolf, Tue 26 Oct 2010, 15:05.

First I tested on a custom made AU1 and dskill showed nothing, no lap results, nor the table. I guess there are probs that has to do with the setup of custom tracks because starting line must be defined. I switched to SO1.

On SO1, I do get finish line results from dskill (top left and the pop-up for a few secs - all with correct numbers) but I am not able to see the table when typing !dskill. Is that because Im testing alone? Would it be visible only after finished race or available after each lap update? I'm not completely sure of how far you came with the table.

I run from lapper 6.0.1.1 now and made a "fresh" folder without any of my previous scripts and changes. Do I need to deactivate any of the "includes".

Currently my addonused.lpr looks like this (with dskill at the bottom):



The driftmeter/pitboard and everything else is all ok (delivering messages and tables as usual). 'DriftPB.elp' is recording so there is a trigger somwhere that I am missing? Do I need to call anything in the 'LFSLapper.lpr' (as it is now, its default from download version).

I enjoyed your xls sheet. Can be real handy for more testing.
For the drift skill score board (dskill_button.png - the latter one), what you have made is superb. I might come with suggestions when I get it all to work at my end. It's something I can experiment with as well, i need to learn how to manage those pop-ups and buttons

Last edited by Ingolf, Tue 26 Oct 2010, 12:42.

Fantastic, i will test, check out the test form xls and start filling in for evaluation.

Looking good!
I will check it out and test for formula tweaking.

Ok, some testing with the initial code: The popup window diplays ok after a finished lap + the message in top left corner (red circles).
However, the values are not yet correct, except the usual driftscore. The value of 100 may be a result of the formula, so I need to test and change that a little bit. It seems we have a really good start here, thanks for writing that code sinanju, excellent work.

I get all other values =0. Hmmm. I see they must be default values set by dskill.lpr

Now, when I type !dskill no table is yet showing. I tried on a local host, so Im not sure thats why or if it is the database problem like you mentioned. I'll test it a bit more and start to look at your code so I understand what's going on - and what isnt

Edit: Now I set up a regular host and table is still not showing when typing !dskill. I see I use V5.9.2.5, and you tested with V5.9.2.6 so thats the first thing I can eliminate.

Cheers,
Brom

Last edited by Ingolf, Mon 25 Oct 2010, 14:40.

Thanks for input guys!

I was thinking along those lines using the average speed to "normalise" the lap score. Just like you mention with your 4 examples and the 1 mile long track.

That formula would still carry my point thru, namely, that you would have to do a "decent" lap in order to get some good drift scores. Hence, you can not score huge by simply making twenty 360 burnouts before the finishing line. Actually, the more I think about it the more I like using average speed like in your examples.

It is possible that the formula needs to be tweaked in order to find a balance between average speed/laptime/driftscores. Drift score should still have a little more weight than average speed. It simply needs testing and a considered decision.

However, the formula in it self is easy to change and play with and as long as the lapper outputs this "normalized" result, it can be tuned into something we like.

As for your last examples sinanju, having a possible score above 100% doesnt disturb me really. It could work fine, and Im keen to try it out as an experiment on a cruise session.

Dygear -By using a percentage value the score is more or less independent of track choise. For good or for bad, but it is easier to relate to a certain level (say 82%) than remember what you scored last time.... "...was it 178227 points or was it 179227?" (yes, it may be in the database)

That said, you could be right by just dividing driftscore with laptime. Or even multiply driftscore with average speed?

So then it comes down to defining what a good drift is. I think this could be agreed on if we test a few formulas and find one that is fun and feels right. We dont need to make it complicated. Just remove the element of gamers going off driving path to crank up the points. If they do, they should see a loss of driftpoints in the lapscore. Thats all.

My aim is (ofcourse) not to completely rewamp the drifting concept, just add a little feature since insim and LFSlapper is powerful enough to let us. At least a dozen Ive spoken to would like to see such an implementation. And for me, half the pleasure would be to try to invoke it and make it work. The rest is to watch peoples enjoyment if it is successful.

Sinanju, you say that !drf cant be used so the only way is to make a new table, right? I guess I have to look into that Tim[NL]'s scoring !points dingy then.

So what we have:

$NickName = GetCurrentPlayerVar("NickName");
$DP = GetCurrentPlayerVar( "DriftScore" );
$LP = GetCurrentPlayerVar( "LapTime" );
$AvgSpeed = GetCurrentPlayerVar( "AvgSpeed" );

$DS = ($DP+$AverageSpeed)/($DP+$LP) // or whatever we tune it to

Now, the question is how do we make that table that contains:
Rank Nickname Driftscore
$?? driftmaniac $DS
... ... ...
and that will show if we type for example !ds

Cheers
Broms

Last edited by Ingolf, Sun 24 Oct 2010, 11:11.

Hi all!
- and yes, I do prefer real racing in LFS, but I have hosted a few drift sessions (using insim LFSlapper) and to my amusement came to a new? idea.

In order to make players actually drive the course (instead of making 20 burnouts), I thought we need to relate the drift score to the laptime. So below I propose a formula to go into the scoring sheet. I know basics of the insim programming language, but have not yet succeded in converting the driftscores into what I suggest below (instead of english, I use Matlab).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
%drift/speed efficeiency
% Using insim LFS lapper and the default driftmeter it should be possible
% to adjust drift scores in relation to the lap time. Drift skill should
% not only depend on the actual rpm/angle and traction, but also be
% reflected by lap time. Hence, a new drift skill (DS) need to be defined.

%RESULT
DS=Drift_Skill; % Earned when completing a lap (using LFSlapper)

%RECORDED
DP=driftpoints; % This is what is recorded by the LFSlapper (per lap).
LP=Lap_Time; % lap time (obviously) is also avilable...

% Drift_skill (DS) would then be defined and recorded as:
DS=100*(DP/(DP+(LP*100)));

%RECORD write
%DS should go into the list (DriftPB.elp dbs?)
%so that it is available and displayed when enetering !drf

% This number (DS) is scaled in percentage, so that
% for instance: 80 means 80% drift/speed efficiency
% & 100 is total control.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I challenge everyone that is more talented than me in achieving this goal or want to help until the patch comes out. Perhaps it is not the correct way of creating this index, but we should be able to work from here if you are interested.

Cheers,
/Broms

Hey, thanks for replying to such an old post
Glad to hear some still get the full out of LFS without demanding graphic glitter and gold edges on the shifter stick.

Last edited by Ingolf, Sun 10 Oct 2010, 17:47.

....otherwise we would not have so much fun
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=65890

Great FPVaaron!
Many hours, weeks, years of fun with the G25 is awaiting
Happy driving!

Did you check out this info: http://www.lfs-lapper.org/help/en/index.htm

It took me a couple of days to understand how it worked, just by reading and I'm not a programmer-guru . Everything is really done in a nice way, just need to find out how to implement it and get it running. After that you can start tweaking the code into a more personal setup. The devs are really helpful too - when they can, they answer specific questions.

I suggest you invest some time in reading the troubleshooting posts and guides already available. I would like to help you but must take off on a trip tomorrow, so hopefully somebody else can fill in.

Good luck!

Last edited by Ingolf, Sat 7 Aug 2010, 13:11.

So FPVaroon, what wheel did you end up with?
Would be nice to hear and what you think about whatever you decided anyway... as a conclusion of this thread!

Get back when you feel things are getting interesting for us, the users, regarding the development. We'll have a good time with Z28 for a long time! I and many of my LFS friends totally supports you in your effort and hope you take the time necessary. As you already know.

Last edited by Ingolf, Wed 14 Jul 2010, 19:07.