On Pentium 4, you won't be gaining much performance from that much RAM. The CPU just isn't fast enough to use it. 2.5 GBs is way more than enough. Money better spent elsewhere, imo

My account date says it. I didn't really pick up a controller to play until June of 2008, and for me, those were the times. Now, I just don't find it as appealing. S2 - August 2009. And here I am now, anxious for the new stuff. I guess it is a habit of checking if anything new is out, everyday. TBH, it doesn't seem like such a long time ago that I played LFS, but it is almost 3 years now =), what a time

The 7 Series was the last nVIdia cards that were under the AGP flavor, as Dadge has mentioned. I cannot back this up, but the price you can get for the highest performing video card may be equal to a Revo or something, with DC Atom and a 9300 GS, which wouldn't be too shabby. Add the fact that it can fit anywhere and runs as cool as... I cannot make a reference, but it is good. I'd look for something like a 6200 AGP (find at BestBuy or something) for $50 or less in other PC stores still runs fine for such workstation purposes.

It's a program that recognizes the joystick axis of which determines which letter (input) is to be inputted onto the screen. If FFShifter doesn't work with your joystick, I doubt JJShifter will too. Make sure you have Windows recognizing the joystick, and that you have the program to receive input from the input component.

Do you have your drivers installed? Wingman?

You might as well compare it to my friend's 5870 in quad SLI. What does that make you need to get in terms of video cards? The fact is that you need one that gets the job done, and for LFS, that is simply a video card within the few generations and with sufficient pixel pipelines. The 4330 ought to get the job done.

About the whole DEMO dilemma. I respect DEMO racers in general. They are playing my beloved game. However, in all honesty, the problem with them on the forum COMPLAINING about the game is totally ignorant. Like others, buy the game, then complain. And even then, that doesn't give you full authority to go ranting and screaming that the graphics aren't good enough or "me dr1fT1nG = cr@$h int0 wa11 = LFS sux0rs". The fact is that you haven't bought the game, and you haven't done anything to make anything better. You just haven't had the experience yet, even if you have driven in LFS for 35 000 KM. You haven't driven the cars, and the tracks yet. Are you cracking? I hope not, but then you are still racing offline.

DEMOs are like immigrants. They have to contribute to the country, swearing allegiance and being part of the country before they can vote. Before that, they cannot. Nothing against immigrants.

Comments, suggestions? I guess, if it makes the game better.

Nice grave digging, man. Search FFShifter in Google, and you ought to find what you need.

Ooooh. This thread is starting to make me feel old. Hmmm... Scirocco, where are you?

Labtop... That's a first

TBH, any laptop that you can find for $400 at Bestbuy will run better than that beaten up Dell of yours and run LFS no problemo... --> Laptop, not netbook.

It's laptop by the way, and I am typing on my neckbook

Hmmm... I think I'll load that up and try it too =D

Yeah, many people have drifted on DEMO. XRG can drift. You just need the setup, and the patience to get that car around the corner.


Off my head, I'd say that by using a few guidelines, you may change your typical Hard Track setup to a driftable setup.

- Turn off ABS
- Balance brakes rearwards (I'd say somewhere ~65 : 35 F:R is a good balance)
- Use locked differential
- Lower the ride height a bit
- Add a few .1 deg of positive camber to rear
- Stiffen rear anti-bar a bit
- Max deg. steer (36)
- Rear wheels on Hybrids or Knobs (so you don't need to much positive camber or inflation)

After that, I'd say you would change it to your needs... Dampening is a science that I'd still want to learn more about, and saddly I cannot help you there =)

I've seen a program that actually emulates automatic transmission, and it uses Outgauge. It processes the amount of throttle (%) and your RPM, and it changes gears accordingly. You can probably use this in conjunction with your road - going setup, and... I dunno, a set of dice hanging from your rear-view mirror

Haha... might as well go G25; or make one from scratch

Anythings possible. You have to make the appropriate mods to make it work. That is for you to discover.

Not that I'm disapproving of upgraded graphics. Anything new will do LFS some good. However, I'd be looking more into the physics aspect of the game. I think that is the keypoint. All games out there can have good looking cars, but it is the physics of the game, and how everything feels (ie. gameplay) that seperates LFS from your typical arcade / semi-simulator (ie. Dirt2 with its DX11 capable shaders + tesselation).

EDIT: No, I do not have a Nintendo Wii, nor do I intend on buying one. PS3 -> GT5 /or 360 -> FM3 FTW xD

Quote from justasimfan :

P
And for people that are afraid about perfomance have in mind that GT5 "Premium cars" are made by around 300-350.000 polygons each and the game can run with a grid of 16 cars at 60 frames .

Most 3d models from above have around 500.000-1.000.000 polygons but the huge difference from the ps3 is that on the pc you can adjust the graphics.On a decent computer you can easily play with a 16 or 32 car grid with 60-100 frames.On older computers reducing the quality of the cars will keep the game smooth as silk..

(Have in mind that the ps3 has 7 working cores of 3.2ghz each with only 256 kb cache memory each core,a 7800 gtx card with 256mb graphics memory and 256 of main system memory- With around $1000 you can find on ebay i7 gaming computers with 6gb of memory and a decent 285gtx card.)

A i7 by the way has 4 main cores of 2.66-3.33 with 3mb of cache each core and every i7 has 8-12 additional sub cores.Add to that 6 gb of memory and that a 285 gtx card is 6 times faster than a 7800gtx that means even with full quality you can play with 1920x1200 with max aa and af with a 32 car grid at over 60-100 frames easily

A PC based-computer and a specially designed console supercomputer are two different things. You need to keep in mind that each game to the smallest detail on the PS3 has been specially designed to run on a PS3. Let us not even talk about the more efficient OS built by Sony to run on the CellBE + RSX hardware.

A PC on the other hand has hardware coming from all over the shelves on your local PC store. Add in the fact that the OS itself was built for a big variety of usages, the OS becomes bloated, and filled with background services and processes that are never used, but take a big chunk of your computer resources. If everyone was to have a specially built OS, possibly something like nLited XP, or 7(V)lite of 7 or Vista, they may be able to come closer to the prescribed "efficient" OS, but probably never to the point of a specially built OS like those on your consoles.

Take an XBox for example. I think this has been a notorious example to describe the relation between raw processing power output, and the actual picture on screen with many console fanboys vs. PC fanboy Youtube discussions. You will probably never be able to run something that looks half as good as FM1 or Halo on a Coppermine - based PC @ 700 MHz with something as comedic as a Geforce 3 on 64mb of RAM.

Add in the fact that not everyone even has PS3 - spec hardware (ie. RSX 7800GTX). I was still running a 7600GT up until last XMas. If you say a rig of eBay only costs $1000, then maybe you should get on your way to buy S2 to support the development And maybe buy me a whole new chipset + CPU; Anything with eight threads and the name i7 on it will just be fine, if you will

I believe that there are Frex wheels that can be mounted onto a Driving Force Pro. In fact, it should also work with the DFGT. And you should be able to find this online. http://www.flickr.com/photos/fcuttin/31206656/

Frex Wheel Adapter.

However, I might warn you that the wheel itself might cost even more than a used G25, or Porsche wheel.

FFShifter, and its non FFB counterpart both function off the letters. A range of coordinates (x,y) will be one letter, and another range will be the next. As long as you can get the game of preference to be able to shift using keyboard keys, it should be fine. The software emulates keyboard inputs.

Answer: Any game that can shift using keyboard inputs (of which FFShifter emulates)

In TS2/3, you use a keyboard key to push to talk, am I correct? Just map that key onto the button on your DFGT wheel using the Logitech Profiler. (ie. Select Keystroke)

I think you are getting way cooped up in the financial aspects of helping the game. Money isn't everything. And in many cases, more money after a point isn't going help the developers develop faster, nor better.

Demos can definitely benefit LFS without buying a license. If they are good sports in the LFS servers, and set a good example for other drivers, the servers will become better. That will encourage less people to leave, and continue playing LFS, and potentially bring in more people with license. (Of course, this is given from the fact that more money is always better). In addition, any LFS driver can always become potential advertisers. They can always be nice in the LFS forum community. That would increase the drivers. This cycle would continue.

You can never rule out that anyone has no intention of buying the game. Anything is possible. And if you can say that, that is just pure ignorance. I've seen people buying a license after years of just DEMO-ing.

The fact is that once the developers have created the game, they no longer need to contribute. The servers themselves are owned privately. So, in theory, the developers don't need compensation after the one time license. The developers can leave right now (ofc, that would be unfavorable for the community), but the racing and the servers would probably continue (unless the master server is down).

EDIT: LFS is not a café. People are told to leave for not buying something is because they are hindering potential business. This is not the case with LFS. There are n number of licenses, and having more DEMO doesn't mean less S1/2; and thus would not be hindering potential customers from buying the game.

I'd still agree with the bulk of the community. The CPU is more important than the GPU. So, even if you had an new video card, you still might not be getting the sufficient frames to run at low resolutions (1024 x 768) if you were running your CPU at 200 MHz x 6 = 1.2 GHz (Pentium 4 775) which would be slow as fu(k If multi - threading is really bad in LFS, then you'd need a good high core clock to keep the processing up there.

That is more or less, the bottleneck. Gratefully, computers with 6600GT and Pentium 4 @ 3.2 GHz were more or less the mid - high norm 5 years ago so even if you did elect to run that today, I'd doubt you'd have too much of a problem. But you'd be running at resolutions of 5 years ago

Yeah, though I have neither. Though I did have the G25 for a while before I got my DFGT. I'd say that it isn't worth it. The G25 is a great piece of equipment, and the pedals? Don't they just have a bigger attachment bracket so you can mount the brakes further left and right to fit your heel-toe needs? And the shifter? nothing some modding can't fix. And sequential is always great to have in hand.

No, I'd agree with everyone else. If it is still in OK condition, upgrade is useless. I mean...

If you don't want it, I'd be glad to dispose of it properly for you. I know of a big dumpster behind my gaming table, and two monitors that fits just a G25. Interested, my good sir?

Quote from sfkilla :

*agrees*

I have a 4890 myself, love it, but i wish it consumed less.

I built a system for a friend last year and i chose a TX650, even though he started with a single 5770. Today he has 2 in CFire and it runs great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13KmeunwLWA

I have a question for you GenesisX

Do you run LFS on 3 screens with your 5770? if so, how does it run and what settings have you got it on (screen res and graphic options)
I run LFS maxed out on my 4890 and never go below 400FPS while hot lapping, and between 150-200fps online. and this on 1920x1080.
I'm wondering what frame count you're getting with 3 screen on a 5770 (if you do)

I hope to start running LFS on 3 monitors, but ATM, it is on 2 17" (therefore 2560 x 1024 [not much more than 1080p) monitors. I get, I think about 90vFPS; I'd have to check though. But I believe this is a CPU bottleneck, more than anything. It seems that it isn't able to cope with the rest of my computer, albeit a Core 2 Duo based PC.

But IMHO, running 3 monitors, be it 1080p shouldn't be a problem with a 4890 or even a 5770. I've seen people doing this since the early dawn of multi - PCIe. If I remember correctly, I saw this person on Youtube 2 years ago [probably can still find] with 3 monitors (probably 19" 1440 x 900) on a 7900GT(X) and using a 6200 for the third monitor (the video displaying DFP and Act Labs shifter). And with almost twice the memory bandwidth and almost four times the processing power on a 5770, and four times the memory bandwidth on a 4890, 3x 1080p should be no problem!

EDIT: Back before native multi monitor support on LFS (Z28/25), I was running running 3840 x 1024 on a 7600GT (~70 FPS if I remember correctly (possibly more b/c I'm not sure if VSync was on to limit at 72).

I also would dislike having to put restrictions on demo - users on LFS. There are couple of reasons why I think that way. I think that primarily, LFS is really one of those only games that allow such a system of Demo (S0 xD) S1, S2, and possibly S3. Given that you have to only pay for the license once, that should remain true for Demo. Demo is a license. Even though you didn't have to pay for it, it should remain fee-free because it was free in the first place.

Secondly, I think that this will add more problems to the people dealing with the game than the people driving. Why? Sure, the dev's will get more income, but they will end up with more registrations. The people who have exceeded the set limitations (whether # Laps or set time limit) will return to get new accounts. Make an IP system people say; how about dynamic IP? How about computers running out of the same network, but different people? VPN? IP blockers? You will end up with a bloated database which will cause more hassle than good. Time better spent on other improvements such as our LFS!

Third, demo is a version, or stage, may it be, of itself. Making it like a trial will destroy its status as a stage in LFS. It is a license, just a restricted license like a learner's permit. Sure, in Canada at least, if you don't get your full driver's in 5 years after getting your learner's, you will have to re-apply again, but that includes the second stage. So in theory, S1s would need to have a time trial

Fourth, demo has its own community. Putting limitations on it would take away a big bulk of the whole LFS community. Leagues, servers will be empty. I will be missing many of the racing buddies in BL1 GTi.

And ofc, there are some people who just can't pay for it. Sure, you earn $100 000 US a year. Ofc you can pay for it. I for one, don't have income. Sure, maybe I am a lazy bum, but do you know my story. Maybe I can't find a job. Maybe my student schedule is way overbooked. And for some people, they don't have the means of paying for LFS. No credit card, no debit card, no visa, mastercard, no paypal, no money - order, and in some cases, no bank account.

I hope this doesn't happen, but if it does come true, I'll be missing a great majority of our population. I mean, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it!" It's great right now, works like a charm. And I think I love LFS so much is because it is unique like this; small number of developpers, the way it is developped (ing) -> the ideals of the developpers, the community!

I for one became S2 after a good 7 months of LFS, and one year after registration, and probably 1000 laps of BL1 Drifting. So, of course, with this and the above, I disagree 99.9% with this idea. The 0.1% is if this helps the developpers put out new physics and Scirocco next Friday, or if... I dunno, someone can get me a new computer that doesn't lag with 16 people on Grid

The PSU is indeed important. And I think, like CPU clock frequency, and amount of RAM, the actual amount of amperage is overlooked on a PSU, and wattage is found instead. Just like HP on a car, I think wattage is what sells the PSU, the amount of RAM sells the OEM PC. I'd look for a good quality PSU, and I'd make sure that it has the juice to keep pumping my rig. Overkill? I'm running a TX750 even though I am running just ONE HD5770. I wouldn't recommend getting something like that, but make sure you have ample juice coming out of your 12V rail to power that video card, motherboard, and CPU.

I'd recommend something like a 4890, or a 5770. The 4890, though old tech, has the head room for overclocking, and if found cheap, is just a great bang-for-the-buck (performing up to 5830-like performance, if not better in older games). In the odd case, is where you cannot get 1 GHz core, if the 850 isn't enough for you. The 5770 is a small yet versatile card. It runs cool, has the same amount of theoretical processing power as the 4890, yet runs that much cooler, uses that much less power, and though lacking in memory bandwidth in some aspects, still has sufficient power to power in most cases, that 1080p monitor, and all cases, with a few exceptions that smaller 20" 1680x1050 monitor.

Last edited by GenesisX, Sat, 4 Sep 2010 00:20.