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Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from somasleep :Good question. One puppet says to the other, "Why does the fact that I claim we are both controlled by a puppet master make us any less real?"

The claim the puppet is making is nonsense. You intuitively understand it to be incoherent but explaining why it is incoherent is more difficult.

The problem you intuitively sense is that once the puppet claims his words are controlled by the puppet master he can no longer claim to make any objective statement about the puppet master. Hidden in his claim is the claim that we cannot know anything other than what the puppet master allows us to know. The puppet master can just as easily make him say, "There is no puppet master."

The problem here is you need some kind of dualism. Matter is not enough to explain everything. You need matter and beings who perceive and can make objective judgments about matter. The two cannot be the same without creating an incoherent world view.

It baffles me how rational people can seriously believe that the reason they think, feel, and believe what they do ultimately boils down to physics.

Great, back on the puppet thing again now. Right, lets clear this up because you appear to refuse to answer my question earlier....

By your own words and logic you state that god controls us all like puppets. That means all the killing, horror and evil in the world is gods doing. It can't be anything else because we are puppets...

So is god some sick twisted individual that sits watching and making his creations kill so he can get off on it? If not why all the killing, there are thousands killed EVERY day by his puppets so it leads us to believe that god is no better than some sick and twisted serial killer.

I believe we have free will in that if I chose to do something then I can do it. Fear and other "emotions" might trigger reactions in my brain designed to temper my actions but I have the ability to fight those and do the action anyway.

I feel sorry for you in a way. Sat their believing that EVERYTHING you do and say is under the control of a sick and twisted evil entity that kills and destroys on a whim. As we are puppets that means he even made his puppets kill his own son to make a point. Yep one sick puppy your god lol


Or is that not what you mean?

Do you take the Bible as literal where the world is only 4000 years old, there were no dinosaurs and everything created in 7 days and if not why do you not believe it? If you pick and choose what you believe then that means you think parts of gods writing are just rubbish no?

BTW: We are not controlled by physics or any of the other science. These are all just tools we use to try and describe the physical world about us, NOT the other way around. All are just theories that have been proven within our current understanding. When understanding changes and theories are proven wrong then fall away to the new theory. Science is NOT afriad to question itself and correct iteslf when required while religion appears to want to hold onto teachings that are 1000s of years old and no longer matter in our current world.
Last edited by Woz, .
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from Racer Y :Oh. OK. Y'all are going to make me drag this out - huh?

@lizardfolk: Please re read what I originally posted. WHen I said planets sustaining life and planets capable of sustaining life as we know it,
I meant there are probably planets that could support... I dunno silicon based life or whatever.

First you shout me down for saying there could be "Little green men" (Your words not mine BTW) and now you do a complete backtrack and admit that given the size of the universe there could be life on other planets.

Quote from Racer Y :But BUT BUT. Look at what we know of evolution. This stuff don't happen overnight. It takes a long time. and in the process, there are all sorts of factors that can occur to "kill it in it's tracks" Everything from an asteroid slamming into the planet to disease... famine (do silicon life-forms get thirsty?). Then factor in that progression is mostly by the random chance of getting a positive mutation in any given species.

As you say, evolution and positive mutations take ages to occur and take hold. But then as the universe has existed for ages what is the problem. It has exissted long enough for a number of different life forms to occur, rise and then fail and die out.

BTW there will be planets that might have started life and then conditions change and it all died. Some planets might be changing to conditions that will support life etc.

The thing is that FAR FAR to many people instantly think visits from another world as soon as you mention life on other planets. This is just pure stupidity. If another lifeform managed and wanted to move outside its planet space the huge distances between galaxies etc is such that on the whole it will not be possible anyway. At least with any tech we know about.

Quote from Racer Y :OK let's go ahead and presume that some other planet somewhere has beaten the odds and made it (so far). What about resources and the ability of these other lifeforms to exploit them? I mean how far would we have gotten if we never understood how to make fire?
What if our planet didn't have Uranium?
Am I making any sense here? I'm not being "egocentric" when I'm proposing this. I'm saying that basically we got lucky. Very lucky.
But who knows. More than one person has won the lottery and look how hard that is to do.

No you are too hung up on the human perspective of life and what that means. Why would another race neeed fire, why do we need it. OMG what would happen if they didnt know how to make TV sets or dishwashers, what would that mean for their species

Quote from Racer Y :Also, I think evolution has a "streamlining" effect to it as well. Where species become so adept to their environments that if a positive change began to occur within said species, it would have serious competition from the refined traits already in place within that species. So much so that it's dominating characteristics are just not going to be enough to override the original traits.
Like Humans for example, we're so high up on the scale at this point, unless there's some sort of major catastrophy, we're not going to change unless we either allow it or bring it about ourselves.
And if we do bring it about ourselves, Would we just limit this progessive change to just simple stuff like stretchy skin or psychic powers? Or would we shoot for Godhood?

Define Godhood?... LOL yeah right. You first.

Humans are not that high up the scale, whatever the scale might be.

Take away the under pinning of our lifestyle.... Electricity, gas and money and huge chunks of the human race would die out VERY VERY quickly.

We are too tightly packed in and too many of us do not have the skills required to hunt, kill, gut and process our own food let alone the other skills to live without the modern luxuries we all take for granted.

That is if we could manage and farm enough to feed ourselves while protecting ourselves from others want any food we did have etc. lol



Quote from somasleep :How do you measure how you felt the moment you first kissed a girl? How do you scientifically prove you are in love? What equations of quantum mechanics explain the way a mother with a son in Iraq feels when she sees two somber looking soldiers at her doorstep?

You can measure the effects of telling a lie and determine if it is a lie or not. Every emotion etc has an effect on the human body. You are just another person that has mixed up emotions and what they are.

One persons love is another persons hate. One persons fear is another excitement. One persons view on loving sex might repulse anothers. Emotions are not black and white states that can be boxed. Emotions are just names humans have tried to put on phyisilogical effects on the body caused by stimuli, nothing more.

Quote from somasleep :When you insist on only believing only in what can be proven scientifically, then not only does God not exist but human beings don't exist either.

How does this work then?

I KNOW there are human beings. I see them EVERY SINGLE day of my life. I know they are born, grow through various stages of life and then die when the body reaches its limits and can no longer repair itself. Some are part of my day to day life while others are just sharing the same planet as me.

So how do humans not exist if God does not exist exactly? I fail to see any logic in that statement. Just saying it does not make it so .

Lets turn this on its head then and see how you answer this one?

Let's argue that God does exist for a moment. He created earth and populated it with us. What about all the bones of older creatures that lived on earth before us? I know, they are just a test because they are not in the bible or were they his earlier mistakes?

Quote from somasleep :I believe there is a God because I see human beings as first class entities and whatever our source it must be something like us (God) and not unthinking unconscious matter. Materialism basically says that human beings are a type of phenomenon--they are a swarm of particles behaving in complex ways. I and the overwhelming majority of people (including Descartes, Leibniz, and Newton) reject this idea.

We don't believe that you can "explain" human beings completely in terms of physics. Simply, because if you could then there really wouldn't be any human beings but rather this one overarching explanation--particles, physics, randomness or whatever.

As we've made more and more scientific progress and begun explaining more and more physical phenomena some have jumped to the conclusing that EVERYTHING can be explained--including the explainer.

How can you convince me that my belief in God is unreasonble if indeed the ULTIMATE reason for my belief is the laws of physics and the ultimate reason for your belief is the laws of physics. Aren't we both two puppets arguing? You can't convince me through the strength of your arguments anymore than one puppet can convince another.

If everything is the laws of physics then people are just puppets controlled by the same puppet master (natural laws).

Ok, so if life is a puppet show then who is in the audience?

Why is it that if there is no god do we have to be puppets?

By your own words that means if we are puppets to science then we are gods puppets if he exists. So given that we are gods puppets that means when a human kills a another creature (human or other), that is gods will.

Does god get off on killing them?

He must do because there is lots of killing in the world by his puppets. Also as we are his puppets it must be god that told us how to create better weapons to allow us to kill in more interesting ways. What a nice god!



BTW: The brain is such that it can think, decide and adapt for itself. It constantly forms new connections when confronted with new situations. This is how we learn and adapt. We are not all the same, we are infact just a sum of our experences to date. They are what shape us mentally. This is obvious to anybody that watches people and animals long enough.

Even "lower" creatures as you would call them "think" for themselves. I guess you have never kept a pet and made it part of your "family". Open your eyes to the world around you lol.
Last edited by Woz, .
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from Dygear :So, the program then get this information just from the compile time knowledge? (In Some, or All Cases)

Or can information be gathered about the data type of a variable from the stack / heap. (In Some Cases.)

The program only know what type of data it expects to be at a given location. You chould put a 3byte string (3 bytes + null termination in C style languages) into the memory location the code expects to be an int32 (4 byte int) and it would be processed as an int 32, not a string.

Not many languages store meta data to describe what the variable type is when you are working in base value types, takes up too much memory, the code is there to tell it what to do.

As for the CPU, it just does the instructions it is told to do blindly.
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from Racer Y :Reading this thread... ok Skimming through it... I've come to a profound conclusion: Atheists are more hung up about religion than what most zealots are. It's kind of amusing.
one poster contradicted himself in one post... something about not being able to believe in God, yet is perfectly fine with the concept of little green men.
I don't believe in Alien life. I know there are zillions of stars and planets and even a few that could not only sustain life, but sustain life as we know it, but when you look at things in evolutionary terms, at least when I do, the chances of something like that being duplicated elsewhere and succeeding much less getting as far as we have is very slim. It's really not that far of a reach to assume that we are the most advanced life form in the Universe.
Also, looking at things in evolutionary terms, with each passing day we, the human race, come that much closer to achieving a God-like status. So what happens to atheists when everyone is a God?
Even better, will that hot Jehova's Witness chick come by again?
Damn, the wife would be omnipotent too... Would get caught and LITERALLY put through Hell.

Rotf. Little green men? Where did I say anything about little green men.

All I said is that as life started here there is a probability that it would start elsewhere in the entire universe.

Do you believe that given there are billions and billions of planets that earth is 100% unique and the ONLY one with conditions to start some form of life?
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from Shotglass :the rubber path files are ~10kb in size... far smaller than skins so it could be easily done
additionally with the clients being able to predict fairly well how the line changes updates could be done with minimal costs as well

trouble is the server would have to do physics

Just have the server maintain the path and send in realtime.

The path could easily be represented by a few 100 points spaced around the track where each point is x, y + rubbing width and marble levels etc. These points are just connected by splines as I said before.

The server can update all clients a few points at a time in the bandwidth it would take to push around 1 cars worth of data to clients.

Quick, simple live track with central managed live track and all clients in sync in realtime
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from mrminor28 :NFS : Live For speed rofl

Sorry you lost me there, dont understand you post at all. Please expand on what you meant or were aiming at?
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from tristancliffe :If it was full of holes then the flood wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad.

rotf

Quote from somasleep :I must say I don't. I believe the Bible was inspired by God. I don't believe it is was dictated by God.

So do you believe in God. I wonder if you could try and say why? This is a genuine request.

The way I see it, Christians believe there is an entity that is "good" but that is happy to watch his creations fight, harm and kill each other and that is happy to even watch his own son tortured and killed by his own creations. He even tried to wipe of most of the planet to "reset" once. How is that good.

With the millions of planets in the Universe why only "play" his big game of "The Sims" on earth?

If "The Sims" is only running on earth then why waste time creating all the other planets?

It took him a fair bit of time just create the earth so given that how long did it take to create the rest of the universe or is that just low LOD models knowing we will never get close to some of it?

Quote from somasleep :Does anyone actually believe the materialist account of the universe? Unthinking, unfeeling, unconscious matter randomly accidently arranges itself into matter that writes poetry about beauty and debates the existence of God.

So if everything is just matter behaving according to physical laws then even your belief that there is no God is just matter behaving according to physical laws. My belief that there is a God is also just matter.

I believe what I can understand and that can be measured and proven. So not God. That said, if a proof was found for God then the scientific would would be forced to accept that. Guess what, no proof yet, not even a shred.

The big bang has possibilities but the bets are still off at the mo. We KNOW and can MEASURE that the universe IS expanding which adds to the bangs credibility BUT still more PROOF is required. It is still just a theory at the moment, not a proof. Both very different things.

Science is like that. Even a proof than has been accepted for decades or longer can be rejected when a better proof is found.

So do you believe there is life on ANY other planet in the universe or did God ONLY populate a single planet?

I am not saying there is other life or what it might be like BUT there is a possibility that if life started on Earth it is LOGICAL that given the same conditions elsewhere it will start there as well given the huge size of the universe it is probable.

Quote from somasleep : We are all puppets controlled by the hands of physics. Everything we say think or feel is controlled by this hand. Even now as I write this sentence it is the all powerful hand of physics controlling my words.

People just accept atheistic materialism without really questioning it. People mock those who believe in God but in truth it's very rational to believe that human beings come from something that is very much like them--God. On the other hand it's quite irrational to believe that human beings come from something completely unlike them--unfeeling and unconscious matter. Aren't we a part of the universe? If the universe is unfeeling and unconscious then so are we.

It has NOTHING to do with unfeeling Yes there are sheep in the
atheist camp that accept everything they are told, just like those with religious belief. But there are also those that question everything and when they find flaws they dig and probe to explain these holes.

Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from SamH :Am I missing something? Does someone here actually believe the Noah story?

No... Its a crock, like the Bible but just thought I would trow that one out there as its one of those great stupid stories that is full of holes

Same as god created the earth and then made light. So he made the earth IN THE DARK! That is huge skill in my books, even planting all the fake evidence that shows the world is older than the 4000 years some hard core Christians believe. You know, like T Rex bones etc. And made them all appear really old in carbon dating etc. ALL IN THE DARK

Personally I believe they should put the first page back into the bible. The one that reads... "All characters in this book are..."

This is a great sketch that sums it all up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsHuVGZaf0
Woz
S2 licensed
Just to add to this topic for all the Christians, hope you can answer this.

We Know [sic] from the Bible that Dog (Oops typo ) created the earth in 7 days, blah blah blah, Adam and Eve blah blah blah.

Later we are told that the whole world is flooded and good old Noah and his wife build the big boat, take 2 of each animal. So this means the bible is really telling us that we are all actually the result of inbreeding between Noah and his Wife.

So my question is.... Why do people in the modern world still believe all this shite?

(Ducks for cover )
Woz
S2 licensed
Yep, the server could have a max bandwidth setting and it would dynamically lower the refresh rate (To a logical minimum) when the bandwidth demands get too big.
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from Amadeu Jr :What I mean is a real parts shop, not only choose parts (like othe sugestions) and let the car like a videogame car. Even in the real world you can compete in various categories using the same car, but tuned for that category.

As LFS intend to be as real as possible why not to have this option? Why can´t I buy Koni shockers, BBS Wheels, HKS turbo kits, etc?
By the way, this can be a good font of funds to develop the game faster.

Someone asked how to buy it? Simple, just buy credits online and spent it the way you want.

This is my opinion, If all you guys see from another way, I must (AND I WILL) respect that.

Unfortunally, there are some people that just have no respect for a oposite idea.

The thing is that if the parts have ANY effect on the cars performance AT ALL it means the people with the most cash win races because they have the better car, not because they are the better driver.

This means all new players will lose even more often, not get credits and so have no chance ever. They have enough of a mountain to climb just learning to drive a car fast unless they have ever driven fast and know what skill it takes.

You will also only be able to sent setups to people with exactly the same parts otherwise the setup is not valid. LFS World will not be able to log stats that mean anything etc. There are a whole mountain of issues to climb.

Your idea works in single player Pokemon games like NFS/GT? where you collect cars and do them up but not in a game of skill.

LFS is about the skill required to drive fast. Would you prefer you lose a race because you realise you were beaten by a better driver or would you prefer a worse driver with a much faster car than you to win.

That is a quick round up of some of the issues. As others have said, search tuning, car parts etc and see the 100s of topics on this already.

In the end...

NFS = pokemon car collection and tweak game.
LFS = race sim based on driver skill.

HTH
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from seinfeld :the normal cars in LFS , like the stock ones, like the XR, XF, RAC, all the ones that use the radial tyres, I 100% agree that they are pretty much bang on, mo issues there.

when it comes to the GTRs and the open wheelers, its totally wrong, you cant run 4 degrees negative camber (live) on R3 tyres without them over heating after 5 -6 laps, and thats just wrong, alot of racing cars, run up to 6 degreees neg camber,run 60 lap race with 1 or 2 tyre changes and get thru a race just fine,
V* supercars here in australia run controlled dunlop slicks they usually after 10-15 laps they are good to go for another 10 if they get a good cool down cycle, in lfs the suspension, and tyres are totally wrong, the BF1 for example, if we say the R1 is the supersoft (used in monte carlo) they last 10ish laps in real life, we cant use them for bf1. 2nd R2's are the soft 20 odd laps is easy they did in melbourne, in the game u cant get 7 laps with decent camber and decent downforce. with R3's 4-5 neg camber +6 castor, med/high downforce) ect its totally wrong, the tyres need to be unique for each car because each series has a specific tyre developed for those cars, atm they are to generic, GT5 has always had decent tyre physics, ok the squeel is terribuble I know, im gana write a letter about it lolz. so no tyres are crap in lfs besides the road cars

R1 tyres and R2 on cars that do not allow R1 are Qualify tyres.

If you cant run 20laps on R3s in a GTR in LFS it means you are pushing too hard and over driving the tyres. I have run 20+ laps R2 fronts and R3 rears on Aston with no issues. No pitstop and ALL tyres still green at the end of the race.

Yes the Aussie V8s run huge cambre to allow the cars to turn BUT when you watch pedal cam in the cars you realise it takes then up to 2 seconds coming out of a corner in 2nd to feed power until their foot is planted. Winning is about modding your car so its better, always has been and always will be.

People in LFS constantly foot mash and use car setups with stupid unrealistic values (But fast due to physics holes) and then wonder why their car/tyres suffer. As more damage comes in it will force more realistic setups.

The tyres in LFS are off but not by what you say, probably more your driving TBH.

I really really doubt that GT5 is near realistic. Its a mass market pokemon (Gotta get em all) car collection and mod game, not a sim.
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from AndRand :Marbles I think come with dynamic track conditions - we will not see it long time - due to average processor capabilities.

Actually, most of what is required is already in place. There is already a dynamic darker path that builds up during a race based on the most used area of the track. I am not talking about the skid marks here.

So this line could be used to have the "clean" racing line where the darker it is the "cleaner" it is and further from the dynamic line offers less grip. Currently this is client side so would need to be reflected to all clients from the server but that could be as simple of x number of points around the track and simple splines used to join the dots.

So not that much CPU is required above what there is at the mo
Woz
S2 licensed
OP: Here is an idea. how about you SEARCH first. This stupid idea that has no place in LFS has been raised by ricers again and again.

You will find that people here prefer to race cars that are EQUAL instead of winning only because you have better parts than the other people.

Fine in Pokemon collect em all arcade games like the GT series but just F***ING stupid in the LFS context.
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from frokki :I'd also like the driver side locked into player's account or by the cars. But last time I opened my mouth the welcome wasn't very warm. Now there are people who agree, wohoo

How dare you bring up such as idea.

ooooooo, very cold "welcome" heading your way lol
Woz
S2 licensed
heat issues? The demands of LFS jumped on the last few patches due to GFX changes in BL and SO.
Woz
S2 licensed
IMHO You should only be able to select your side ONCE for your player profile and then it should be locked.

Changing sides for different tracks is just lame and not realistic. Nobody has 2 cars with driver setup on different sides.

For enduro with driver change lock to first ddriver, as others have said.
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from dj-fluxsa :Johnny Cash - Folsom Prison Blues

Johnny Cash - Boy names sue
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from tristancliffe :90° feels and looks real enough to me.

I think this varies from person to person.

When I started LFS I had come from years of Q3 at 110fov. I started with this in LFS but have slowly reduced that and now run with 65fov.

This is enough that you can see the dials and mirror but need look L/R for the side mirrors. I find it easier to work out speed without the slight warp effects that higher fov bring to the display.

I use a 21" 4:3 CRT, less motion blur an LCD, can use any resolution without blur and I have the space so depth of monitor not an issue.

I find the monitor size lets me get a good feeling of speed but the 4:3 aspect does mean I am left slightly wanting in the view beside me but its something I like with
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from Bluebird B B :Well it is not realistic. Also as soon as everybody is back on track(eg race-restart), people with a slow computer will still have a performance problem

I never did notice any difference in frame-rate with many racers online except when many cars are visible on screen.

Sigh. If you are sat idle for ages it means you are taken OUT of the physics loop. This is a good thing, it only happens after x seconds so what is the problem. WHY would you want to sit idle for ages in a race and effect others in the race.

This is a good feature. No, not 100% realistic but LOGICAL given the constraints we work in.
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from tristancliffe :Where is the "I really don't care at this stage of development" option? Surely there'd be hundreds of votes for that one?

+1 So for the moment I voted NO
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from Greenseed :Into joystick configuration, we lack of support On:

Let say, Analogue X axis is between 300 and 5000 and Y is between 600 and 3000, during calibration thoses was the value sended by my analogue stick, probleme is my stick is old and custom, so can happen during calibration he goes just a little to high, so normal operation i will have: X==310 to 4876 and Y==620 and 2876, so in fact i won't go anymore to the limit of my Axis, so having a % limit of the detected Stick axis range would be great, then if i put the X limit to 98% so the game will respond to 100% of the axis at 98% of the range detected during calibration.

Another place , where will be great to have this analogue limit will be into center, so i can put the center as big as i wan, for old shaking stick will be great, i know they exist a setting to slowdown too fast motion on thoses axis, but this is not direct as my solution.

So i hope, not only me has got a probleme where you can reach the limit of one of the axis.(P.S. recalibreate our stick but don't go to the physique limit of the stick little lower, should solve all thoses issue)

The rest of the game for my part, is perfect! perfect! perfect! but can be better

For me this is one of the best Game(Codding) ever done. Great job to all, and event if i don't have this patch, lol, i still got all the rest, and that is allready much great so thx everyone who help this community growing, and offcourse to the creator team

Bravo!

Try TweakDX to play with the extremes. Also in LFS recalibrate but do not move to full extent and then lock calibration, this will ignore outside the calibrated areas.
Woz
S2 licensed
Quote from jarmenia :This is hypothetical but I'm trying to understand how to get the most out of a car (open wheeled). Lets say you've worked hard and are finally driving the correct line on the course but you're still too slow. There are no visible problem turns (car gets loose too tight ect). How do you start to tune the car for general speed increase.

Now obviously once one adjustment is made, the rest of the car will need adjustments to correct the problems caused by the first adjustment but I'm looking for the answer to where to start if your biggest problem is speed not handling.

My first guess would be lose some down force and then try and correct for other handling issues with other adjustments. Is this correct?

You also have to look that you are actually getting the most from the setup. Are you getting on the gas quick enough through the corner. Are you braking late enough etc.
Woz
S2 licensed
I use it to limit FPS to around the minimum my GFX card produces. I am sat beytween the 50-100fps so the jump between 50-100 is more noticable than say 100-150..

Also as its a laptop it helps with heat.
Woz
S2 licensed
Saul Williams - Tr(n)igger

From "The Inevitable Rise and Liberation of NiggyTardust!"
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG