Well I find anything close to +/-50rpm (maby sometimes +/-100rpm if the powerband is wide enaugh) from the spesified rpm in LFS, ok

as for the power curves they do matter if you need them for gear spacing, unless you have bionic brain and you can imagine them just by looking the torque graphs.

Last edited by kaynd, Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:30.

You did all the hard work extracting those torque curves and didn’t plot some easy power graphs. Why?

Anyway I added some quick HP curve graphs in case someone is too lazy to do it on its own. (I hope you don’t mind)
http://www.box.net/shared/b7sb9odgk1

they look very similar to what is already implemented in Bob’s VHPA. Anyway excel graphs are much more manageable when you want to carefully observe graphs.



Nice work


(woops now I saw pik_d post. this google docs online aplication looks nice)

Last edited by kaynd, Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:22.

please finish this movie . It's a great idea but it realy gets spoiled at the end.

For some short posts have a look here http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=845412#post845412

in details.
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=27176#post27176
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=539452#post539452
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=539489#post539489

It's not focused only in LFS but they will help you get a picture.
Reading the hole threads is recomended.

bahhh overanalyzing it spoils the fun He is talking about my obvius addition to the photo.

yeah I think it's impossible to not spot the face now

what about now?

Quote from hadesko :

This video is not available in your country due to copyright restrictions.

same

As I see you aim for the highest amount of suspension travel which is in the right direction but is only one part of what you need.
The other part is suspension movement. You need just enough stiffness so the suspension will only just not bottom out after a big jump. You have to use all that suspension travel to absorb that momentum the car's weight produces against the ground when falling.
If your suspension is too hard, so it's not far from hitting the bump stops right away, talking about damage after the impact.


But anyway keep in mind that no setup will make your car indestructible, I am talking about how to have less damage.
It is usual in many layouts with obstacles, eg when hitting ramps with not the right angle, you end up with almost immediately destroyed suspension. There is no setup that can prevent that.

I have attached the setup you gave with some changes to give an example.


[edit] added improved soft2 setup. Less damage for high speed jumps

Last edited by kaynd, Sun, 21 Jun 2009 10:07.

Anti Roll Bar

I was not trying to reproduce the effect; I did try to give you a basic understanding on what it is causing it.

In ky oval I am just sitting there stationary trying to give an example of how tire loads are affected when crossing the point where the "bank" meets the flat road.
At that specific part of FE there is a similar "bank" just with a smaller camber angle, producing the same effects. It's just harder to spot in screenshots.
http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... mp;stc=1&d=1245167427
http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... mp;stc=1&d=1245167427

You are going the wrong way if you just add Newton. This applies only when sitting still an doing nothing.
When moving and hitting small sharp bumps that force the vehicle's mass to accelerate instantly on it's vertical axis, it's an other story... you have short bursts of forces way higher than the actual weight of the car.
We are talking about moving mass that contains some kinetic energy here, having some inertia.. etc. The sky is the limit when something tries to absorb that energy.
Especially when there are not that many things absorbing energy in a clinical simulated environment. (only tyres and dampers, no chasis-suspention components flex).
If you hit the bump stops, meaning that the dampers can not absorb anymore energy, then it is normal getting some pretty nasty peak forces...



If you pay attention to your replay in forces view, attend the car from the follow camera so you can see all four tire loads, you will spot many places when your suspension bottoms out on bumps (force bar goes red).
(Talking about the replay you have uploaded)

Last edited by kaynd, Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:44.

The wall on the first video is really close to the road so there is not enough room for the car to reduce it's speed while sliding and also the area of contact was too small at that specific spot because the wall had an opening there with the edge of it almost facing the direction of the track.

Ahh I see, this is not a bug and it is not a ditch that causes it. It’s just that you happened to cross a sudden surface camber angle variation with the wrong line because of the sudden oversteer that the rear tire caused, touching the grass.

In that situation all the weight and downforce of the rear end of the car, loads just one rear tire and here this happens to be the outside already heavily loaded one, hence the extreme deformation. Also the hole car's momentum helped in order to generate this extreme vertical force when the rear left suspension hit it's bump stop.
http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... mp;stc=1&d=1245094521

I took some screenshots from ky oval to give you an easier example of the same case
http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... id=86552&d=1245094464
http://www.lfsforum.net/attach ... id=86553&d=1245094464



The extreme lateral force that this tire generates falls in another category of tire load sensitivity inaccuracies. In LFS no mater how heavily you load a tire it will produce more and more grip. It might not be linear more_load -> more_traction which would be completely wrong but it is not as far from that as it should.

Last edited by kaynd, Mon, 15 Jun 2009 19:42.

You have attached the wrong replay.
Can’t really say from the photo shat could cause it. It pretty much seems like a flat tire to me which makes it even more strange if the tire is not blown, because I have never sheen a normally inflated tire deform that much just by cornering force even if it is 5G.

But then it's impossible to blow a tire after just one lap racing, so :eye-poppi

Do you ever start with less than 3000rpm in a race? Anyway this depends on the engine's powercurve, if you are talking about a diesel, 3K is considered high rpm but we are talking about most LFS cars here.

Quote from kaynd :

Of course the turbo will not spool to it's 100%

And I don't disagree with that. I just justified why you get even less than that low pressure the turbo is supposed to produce in low rpm when accelerating - without a constant load.
(All the dyno methods I have seen mentioned here do not introduce the use of brakes, hence the inaccuracy that Bob is referring to, in low rpm)

Anyway this is meaningless because no one cares about what the engine does in those lazy rpm in a race sim.

Quote from jaxx751 :

Isn't that the point of how turbos work? As they spool they create torque. I would just powerbrake to be honest, if you're not at the minimum RPM for the turbo to be spooled 100% that's not really that close to shift points.

I think Bob is talking about turbo lag. Of course the turbo will not spool to it's 100% at low rpms but with the lag LFS turbos have, it will not be able to spool fast enough to produce the power it was supposed to in e.g. 2500rpm, when accelerating even with a single tall gear at the dragstrip.
You need a constant load in constant rpm to do this, which can't be achieved by just accelerating the car.

Anyway even if low rpm power is not that accurate at the graph, I think this doesn't matter that much because no one is using below 4000rpm when racing. So why bother?

Quote from jaxx751 :

Though I have started to think that in the FZR power falls off at upper RPMs and a lower shift point might be better.

I have found out long time ago and it is still the same way. That FZR's powercurve is quite flat up there... there is not much power variation between 7500 and 8500rpm. And this is logical considering the enormous powerband for a NA motor... (peac torque @ 5250rpm - peak power @ 8100)
Exactly the opposite from what you expect also happens to the turbocharged GTR cars where the powerband is much narrower. (peak torque @ 4800rpm - peak power @ 6300rpm)
It's not realy that unexpected for the power to drop off sustansialy after peak power for a turbocharged car, but this happens to be so profound at LFS turbocharged GTRs that makes them have a great disadvantage compared to FZR especially on fast tracks.
(I am speaking from experience being a member of the only team that didn't use the FZR in MoE GT2 class οf the last season. We where struggling to keep up in straights using the barely minimum downforce settings while FZRs drove with plenty of it despite having 9HP less due to the GT2 class restrictions. (!) )

Last edited by kaynd, Thu, 11 Jun 2009 13:32.

Didn’t notice that comment on the first post earlier. (talking about careful reading eh? )

Do you care posting the setup you are using? Even with default, which suffers from instability during lateral weight transfers as most LFS default setups do, I can’t see what you are referring to.
Can you separate faint oversteer from power oversteer? The XRG shows hardly any power overtseer even in second gear. Only when exceeding it’s lateral acceleration limits it will loose the back end under full throttle and will continue sliding mainly because of it’s momentum and not because of it’s power.

If the AC Cobra in GTL shows that little power oversteer and is affected much less by weight transfers, then the GTL’s model is unrealistically easy to drive…

You can find many of those WR or similar setups in these two sites.

http://www.setupgrid.net/
http://setupfield.teaminferno.hu/

I didn’t mean to be rude. You didn’t seem give any attention to many opinions stating the really obvious.
The feedback forces you get are relevant with the force you, as a driver, apply to the wheel.
If you are not a machine that copies the exact hand movements of the driver on the replay, then the forces you will get would be completely inaccurate and irrelevant to what you could get if you drove in the same conditions.
I am not going to continue arguing on this. If you can’t get it, I will not make you get it.

read and try to understand

Quote from GabbO :

What would it help if the wheel is turning from itself? The wheels react like this cause you force them to be in that certain place they are, not letting them naturally straighten out in a corner for example. If you don't apply the same forces yourself, the forces you get are pretty much meaningless.

As logitekg25 already said, brake force is usually limited setupwise so the tires won't lock in almost any condition.
As for the corner exit oversteer while increasing the throttle, (Byku allready said this) it's just the violent transition from push understeer to "pull" oversteer that the locked diff produces while going from braking to accelerating not in a smooth or optimal way according to the car's full traction capabilities. (e.g. If you drive the XFG utilizing the full front tire's limit, it most likely won't oversteer when you start accelerating)

Quote from tristancliffe :

Yup. I think the quick setups are countering FWD understeer with a lot of rear stiffness to increase load transfer at the rear and cause oversteer. It works in real life too - see how many FWD cars pick up the inside rear wheel.

Actualy if you take a look at LFS FWD setups you will see exactly the oposite.
For the reasons I have allready mentioned here , here , here and in other posts that I don't bother posting here because they are all referring to the same problem described in more words.

Last edited by kaynd, Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:27.

Nice save but I think you are pushing it a bit too hard if this is your first track experience with this car.
Try to stay in limits for a couple of laps before you start drifting.