I can easily control a slide and point the car at whatever direction I want when I am already at the limit and the rear end steps out (racing) but when I try to drift on purpose, I can’t even hold a steady drift angle…
Making the car go on purpose sideways in a certain way trough the corner isn’t as easy as it seems.
Sliding the car allover the place inside (or outside) the track is a piece of cake and it is what the 90% of so called drifters consider as drifting…

So what makes a good drifter?
The ability to hold a certain line while going sideways with a certain angle and certain speed…

It depends on the locking percentage at the dif…
As long as the differential gives more torque to the more loaded outside wheel, you are going to have oversteer at the corner exit with throttle.
The more you load the outside front wheel the more oversteer while pressing the throttle you get…

And who told you that IRL they always use stiffer ARB back than in the front? It depends on the weight distribution; what we can consider as soft or hard at the front or the rear of the car.
IRL it depends on the balance you want and at the differentials that usually are not as “strong” as that we have in lfs.

Also in IRL a setup that loads only the front outside wheel would not work as good as it does in LFS because a real tire can not handle that mutch force and would loose traction easily under power…
In lfs as long as you increase the vertical load at a tire it just gives you more grip… that’s the problem and it is not a bug, it just shows that the physics model isn’t complete yet…

After all realistic setups work after the clutch pack preload addition, you just have to keep a realistic locking percentage at the LSD…

This setup I attached, is not made for any track, it is just an example.

Last edited by kaynd, Wed 26 Sep 2007, 22:33.

Hell yeah!!! I was faster than the hand of mod

This is not a physics bug…
When you harden up the rear anti roll bar, indeed you ad oversteer.
In that way you remove vertical force from the inside rear wheel and you add vertical force to the inside front wheel which if you had a normal differential with a med to low coast setting (fwd), would increase front traction.
When you have a locked diff, in order to steer you need to load the one of the two driven wheels with a much grater force so the other one (the inside) does not resist to the turn, that’s because both wheels have the same angular velocity (locked diff) but they have to take different tracks while turning and that means, the inside which is lower loaded should keep spinning regardless the shorter distance that covers from the inside line.

The only physics problem here seems to be that one wheel, generates the same lateral and longitudinal force as two wheels, when loaded with the same vertical force… that makes the locked diff setup fast by using only the outside driven wheel. (Mainly at the fwd cars)

I think that driver A and B would have crashed together anyway and the incident is their fault.

They both tried to take their own line without checking if there is any car close to them... clearly not using the mirrors at all.
Driver C had grater speed and enough room to pass. But mainly driver A moved like he was alone in the track… (Probably he hadn’t noticed how close he was to the other cars cause the fact that he spectated when the incident happened shows us that he cared to eliminate the risks for other drivers after the incident)
I think the selection of cameras and the slow motion part… point out the driver C.
You should have chose more informative cameras such as drivers eyes view and the replay speed should have been the same for all drivers…
The slow motion part gives you the feeling that driver C had plenty of time to react, seeing the gap closing for a long period of time before the incident happen…

After all I voted driver A cause he is the one that almost crossed one of the four lanes that track has without checking if there was any car at the side.

Last edited by kaynd, Tue 25 Sep 2007, 01:20.

Quote from J@tko :

A) Dont brake and turn

Sometimes you have to when racing...

Quote from J@tko :

B) Set there to be more brake bias at the front

This helps only rwd cars which don’t have much coast locking at the diff… or helps generally if the rear brakes are so strong that the rear end looses traction during braking but that is not the case here.

Quote from hinirags :

Maybe because of a locked differential, or high locking.

That is the reason.

To reduce that phenomenon, harden up in small steps the rear antiroll bar, till you can control the corner exit oversteer.

Allso you can try use the gas in a smother way and reduce the braking at the same smooth way.

If you want just a realistic setup to play with, get rid of the locked diff and use a clutch pack with less than 50% locking power. Also you will have to re adjust at least front and rear antiroll bars cause in order to make the locked diff usable, setup makers use much harder antiroll bar at the front and this is not what you want when you have a normal diff

The only reason to have a turbocharger and a supercharger at the same engine is to reduce turbo lag. In that way you can fit a gigantic turbo which only operates optimally at high rpm (that explains the high power)… and then you use the other supercharger to operate at lower revs so you have a wide and usable power band.
There is not such thing… turbo plus turbo or charger plus charger for ultimate boost… this is just for the show.

Quote from Crazy Harry :

What is strange with a race engine that wants to run round in low rpms? Did you ever tried justa simple 300°+ camshaft in your cars?

I can’t understand how you defend your low revving opinion, referring to a 300ο camshaft… these are absolutely irrelevant things. That kind of camshaft does not work at low revs at all…

Honestly I haven’t seen a car that has more than 4 turns lock to lock… (1440degrees)
So I think the limit of 2.5 turns or 900degrees are ok for sim racing (not bus driving)… there is nothing to gain with just more turns.

A 2.9 turn wheel and feel sporty and quick at family or hatchback cars… eg ford focus has something like that…
You will see 3.5 rotations from lock to lock at most of the cars that have nothing to do with the “sporty feeling”.
3 rotations are 1080degrees btw…
Sporty cars have around 2.5 rotations lock to lock (eg S2000) and expensive sport cars have around 2.

These camper values are not really strange for so narrow and high profile tires with that low pressures.
The low tire pressures are abnormal… And as long the LFS’s engine does not simulate tire puncture due to extreme deflection, this will remain the same.

You can do both of them.
I can’t see why we have to choose what is better for you.
Do whatever you like… the main goal is to have fun.
Racing is far more exiting than “cruising” if you have racers at a close level to compete.
It is not hard to be competitive and stable because you are young and others are older… You just have limited racing experience. Even if you where 20 you would have the same difficulties at the beginning.

Quote from Bob Smith :

That's just the weight of guilt for all those nasty things you did as a child. Be naughty some more with your left arm to balance things out.

Does that work only with the left arm?

It is easily noticeable when the front suspension is damaged (mainly the shock absorber rather than the camber or toe)… that creates the essential, for the Torque Steer phenomenon, torque imbalance between the front wheels, that ΒΒΤ has referred at his post.

I made up to 7 level in something around 2 hours trying to understand what’s about this game… it seemed to be interesting and fun for a while... but then I started to get bored and when I exited, I felt somehow sad for the time I lost :Kick_Can_ :sleep1:

Quote from tristancliffe :

I shall test it, with a valve spring.

How does the spring 'know' the 100lb is preload, and use it to absorb further load rather than being further load in the first place?

The spring doesnt know... the "preload" stops pushing the spring if you want to compress it more


Edit
I am useless at drawing especially using the mouse… but I thing that you can understand what I am trying to say.

Last edited by kaynd, Mon 3 Sep 2007, 14:26.

You can prove it by testing it in your own F3000 or
Just find a spring with constant spring rate and play with it (maybe you can find it in a cheap pen.)

You can also analyze the forces theoretically but I feel too lazy to do it right now. (I will try later)

Quote from tristancliffe :

Evilgeek - In your example you are pressing the spring away from the spring platform, and in that scenario yes the new load has to take up the old preload. But in this real life racing situation we are compressing the damper unit - the spring platform is always applying it's preload function. Therefore the compress the spring in your example further by moving on end of the clamp, you can apply any load. 1 gram or 100kg will move the spring.

As people have said above, if you apply a load of 100 it compresses x. If you apply 200 it compresses 2x. There is no way in God's World of Physics that applying 100 compresses it x and the next 100 doesn't compress it at all. There is also no way the second load compresses it 0.8x (i.e. the spring get's stiffer), assuming we are not at the point of going coil bound.

I think that’s where you have being confused.
The physics you are referring are correct but
Preload isn’t a force which is being added to the spring constantly as weight does.
It is an initial force which is caused by compressing the spring to a given initial length. When you compress the spring furthermore the preload has no effect at all.
Of course it does not increase the spring rate but it does increase the minimum force you have to apply in order to start compressing it.

Last edited by kaynd, Mon 3 Sep 2007, 12:53.

I tried to make a kart set, long time ago but it is impossible cause fsae is completely different from a kart… there is no suspension movement whatsoever in a kart.. Only chassis flex.
As I see my kart set philosophy is close hotmail’s sets with the only difference I did not try to eliminate suspension movement. I chose the higher equal spring rates for both front and rear suspension leaving it almost undraped and I used the anti roll bars to balance it like a kart but it is just not working lol… it feels like a cart with terrible or broken chassis without any torsion bars.

@ anttt69. Placebo

Thanks

Good one keep it up!

Nice slo mo vid there.
It would be good to upload it somewhere in higher resolution

Thanks for the comments.
Yes felplacerad, there is some OLFSL footage

No effects, just race action.
To be honest, I hadn’t anything specific in my mind to create so there isn’t any plot at all… just action shots put together following the music but not always the bit.
I hope it is entertaining.

Youtube link
Download link 640x480 30fps xvid 90,5 ΜΒ
Download link 1024x768 60fps xvid 231ΜΒ

Beautiful artistic scenes Nicely directed and edited.
My imagination has abandoned me so I got Jealous (in a good manner) seeing your camera work.