Firstly fast cart driving has nothing to do with fast road car driving.
Then we need a replay of your driving to see where you make mistake, byt anyway you need more time spent on driving to improove than 3 days.
After all you have to wait till your G25 comes so you learn ways of fast driving, usable with wheel and not button driving…
Have a look at LFS word (www.lfsworld.net) for replays. Assuming you have X10 version as you mention XRT, the current LFS world replays should be valid for your version.

There is not one thing to be fixed (eg understeer in FWD)… tire model needs to be excelled in general. Also suspension and chassis flex… (it is more likely that we wont see chassis flex ever in LFS)
There is nothing completely wrong that lfs’s engine is simulating now… it may be a bit overdone in some ways but not completely wrong…
Also to prevent front wheel spin you do not need only a hard setup in general but higher or a lot higher rear roll resistance that in front.
Do you mind sharing the setups you used while testing the wheelspin behavior?

One of my friends happen to own a 93 swift GTI and I know it spins it's front tires like crazy...

I was trying to get lower than 64 and couldn't
I did set the FFstep value at 16 and the next time I open the cfg.txt it always returns to 64.


maybe that changed recently so you haven’t noticed it

Last edited by kaynd, Sat, 15 Dec 2007 13:07.

so what? a real formula can't slide sideways?
It will sure loose all it's DF and then be completely uncontrollable but there is a long way in front of us for such detailed aero model... it might not come even in S3

nice thanks for the feedback

Did you bother testing the set I attached last week?
It was made taking in count what you where saying, it is not what I usually make so a little bit of feedback, even if it was crap, would be good.
If you ever find the time, you can test it on the newer patch just by changeing the name layout and putting it into Setup folder. appart from the gears... It should work fine.

Quote from BruTaLysT :

I think there is quite a logical explanation to the crisp feel at 128 vs 256 FF levels. Look at it as audio as 8bit vs 16bit. A sinewave would be more smooth at a higher bitrate but becomes more like a sawtooth when lowering the bitrate and eventually turns into a squarewave when going even further. The rattle you get from a sawtooth is much more noticable then a perfect sinewave, though the sinewave is more accurate.

Even if LFS's force feedback isn't directly related with the sound format example you gave, I think the general meaning might be spot on for my case....

indeed

Quote from Scawen :

With modern tuned engines you often can't reach the ideal shift point, because you hit the rev limiter just after maximum power. That's because the engine designer achieved maximum power by adjusting valves, intake and exhaust systems to get the most air and fuel mixture in there at the point before the engine begins to self destruct.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=628138#post628138

Did you mean that?


Good point but in that case I ready doubt 7.5K rpm is close to destruction point of a 4cyl 2lt race tuned engine...

max power is still there but the effective power curve just got shorter so yeah it is not strange that people whine about the less powerful feel…

If you can't find any difference between 64 and 128/256,Niels, then something isn't right with your hands

Maybe that's why you like rfactor? (jk)

hmm it could be an esplanation.

To me 256 -> 128 make a huge difference in FF… I do not know if it is just me. But I clearly find 128 better…
in what mode do you run?
Do you want to test it and say your impressions?

Quote from Niels Heusinkveld :

If you run the GTR cars with 65% strength in LFS, you're basically having binary FF, its on or off, unless you run 1 or 2 degrees caster. With 6 degrees caster you only need 20% in LFS in order to occasionally max out the force feedback!

I never felt that on or off feeling all that time been in 128 FFstep mode...

After a more detailed search (i did a search before this thread anyway) Found some of your posts Android saying that you couldn't find many differenced between 128 and 256.

Some say that it is smoother @ 256 and i confirm that. But it is smoother in general and that doesn’t give me nice sharp feel when going over some curbs or road bumps.

Last edited by kaynd, Fri, 14 Dec 2007 13:43.

Well you don’t have to buy all this kind of stuff (mentioned @ SRT) to get involved.
Just a decent PC- wheel - network connection, will do the trick.

Also 4000$ might be enough just to by a car… the cost of putting it into racing or just events is another story… only tire cost is enough to blow your budget away…

Soon after I installed the new test patch (X30) I realized some changes at the feedback.
I forgot that I had set the FF step num @ 128 in the cfg.txt and the new patch’s cfg.txt replaced the old one, so back to default with 256 ffsteps.
I don’t remember since which patch the 256ffsteps value became default, so some of you might have not spotted the difference.

But my question is.
Why I feel in 128FFsteps mode the force feedback more alive and crisp? Why I feel better the bumps, the curbs and all kind of forces?

Note that I use a G25 with 720degrees 100% feedback strength from the driver and 65% at LFS
So the hardware should not be a problem… the drivers are fine and my PC & OS has changed entirely from the last time I experienced the same strange feeling in 256FF steps mode.

Quote from MR_B :

Problem is though it just doesn't give off the same team spirit as preparing a race car together, and getting it to a track. Let alone winning.

That depends on the team

Also yeah it is how involved you want to be in that scene... it is sure not "just" a game.
To learn more about sim racing in general have a look at http://www.simracingtonight.com/

[edit]

LoL @ me sayng about SRT, i now saw the advertisement on Beckys broadcast

Last edited by kaynd, Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:32.

Clutch is ok for infinite number of laps.
There should not be a problem whatsoever in racing unless you constantly flat shifting.

The autoclutch feature is ruining the clutch by slipping it when you crush and go backwards while still keeping the throttle pressed… (Maybe it should be coded that in backward movement with a forward gear engaged, acutoclutch should be fully off?)
It is a wrong habit, many of us have, keeping the throttle fully on whatever happens because there might be a way to save it doing some high speed spins…
The only think you should care when you spin is to stop as fast as possible so you can save the car and continue the race.

In general I still think that clutch heats up too fast but this will affect all other non racing activities which contain some clutch abuse and these activities are not LFS’s main goal, like it or not.

There are no differences between X30 and X31 in what I am saying

The Rpm point, in which the shift light will flash, depends on your gearing (in LFS). If you have long enough gears, with the FOX’s power curve you could change up e.g. @7800rpm before X30. Now the rev limiter comes first so the shift light, lights at that point.

Actually, this restricts the available choices in gear rations, and makes it harder to find the right gearing for each track. This is not bad.
My only problem is that I still think 500rpm over the peak power is too low for an exclusively race tuned engine.
Even in most real road cars you have ~ 800-1000rpm over the peak power to play with…

No I mean the FOX :worried:
max power at 7031 rpm... rev limiter @ 7500 (test patch X30, upcoming Y)

this set is crap man it's an old attempt of me to make a road going stable set which i just took and lowered the first gear just for the test. lol there is no point driving it

[edit]
OMG I can't help mysefl i have to stop thinking about it
anyway just a quote

Quote from TomM :

Also the clutch in the car is very easy to overheat. Two uses and its essentially overheated and unusable. You'd really have to ride the clutch for a lap to even notice a difference. Now, within seconds you can completely ruin it which isn't very realistic. I've never heard of a clutch on the FBMW going bad from normal use, let alone misuse, and there is definitely some misuse. I used the clutch on downshifts when I raced in 04 (then moved to GT cars and left foot braked, backwards I know) and had zero problems with the clutch.

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=623661#post623661

I hope that's my last word about clutch overheat.
I will try hard I promise

Last edited by kaynd, Thu, 13 Dec 2007 05:27.

To clarify that. and i am off
In my test, the XFG has 1ts gear that gives about 36km/h at 6000rpm… I wouldn’t call that a long gear.
Also I hardly believe that locking diff has an effect on that unless you take account the resistance which creates in slow speeds.
And because I do that test on stand still with the tires straight, the diff doesn’t affect anything.
After all that set has a clutch pack with 40% locking [edit]i checked again and i found that there is an open diff lol... i thought that there was the defaut's diff[[/edit] (anyway I hate locked diffs… I have removed them from all my sets for any car, since the addition of preload after patch W)

Last edited by kaynd, Thu, 13 Dec 2007 04:57.

Count it it. was less than 36 sec for the temp to go red… from then I did move the revs up further to show that the clutch was useless… I wasn’t trying to keep it cool. (note that you see the revs get higher but i do not increase the throttle i actualy decrease it a bit after the CT goes red...)

I haven't tested UF1's clutch... it may be way more durable.

Anyway i do not expect to keep cool. I expect the clutch heat up slower and have a bit more linear loss of effectiveness.

And if nothing of that happens, it would be good to change that CT bar so it’s range has to do with the effective temperature of the clutch... when the temp reaches half the bar, there is no clutch whatsoever so what's the point going further up? it could be focused to the working range of the clutch.

I said what I wanted to say. I stop here because I am giving wrong impression and I am not helping anything get better by repeating the same things.
I can live with the current clutch model.

Last edited by kaynd, Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:26.

Quote from mrodgers :

How are people overheating the clutch with just a single race start? Or even with poor shifting through a race? My Westhill lap had to have been the absolute worst thing you could do to the clutch and never would have happened during any normal driving or racing, yet it still lasted through a whole lap.

Why then you don't download the spr i attached above to see for yourself? and why don't you try tha same test with the XFG? i can see that there is not the same problem with all cars..

Pesonen i did download your spr to see what tests you did.

As for what you guarande, i have not timed for how long i have seen others keeping the car still by slipping the clutch, but it is a lot longer that a normal take off... the next time i am to a similar situation i hope i have something to video it...

[edit]

i saw your spr, you did the same test as me with the only difference, you are using the autoclutch which manages to keep the car still with something close to 1250 rpm...
I just did this manualy, and because i am not that automatic, you see the car going backwards when the clutch gets red... if after that you push the pedal flat the clutch slips and instantly heats up to the point that is completely useles, it is a matter of 2 sec after the ct bar goes red.

Last edited by kaynd, Thu, 13 Dec 2007 02:19.

I have been in situations going up a steep hill with many cars in front of you starting and stopping. You basically slip the clutch all the way up…
Also it is possible to keep the car stable stopped on a small hill by slipping the clutch in low rpm.
I know people doing that a lot, almost in every traffic light, and no one had any problems whatsoever… (I don’t like doing it because I know it stresses the clutch with no reason) I bet none who knows about car abuse that happens a lot when you are around 20-30yold… experienced the clutch getting loose so fast.

Why I continue whining about it? Because I thought that with proper clutch and tire model, by using the clutch you could get a benefit instead of just full throttle and jump of the clutch to have a perfect pull away…
Now with just one fast start using some slipping you can ruin your clutch or at least increase the temp worryingly so in the next mistake you are without clutch at all… So now even clutch model teach us that it is better on the start to just let go the clutch…

In the attached replay you can see the CT bar that gets red in 33 sec of sliping in around 2000-3000rpm with less than 1/5 of the clutch pedal release and less than ¼ of throttle @ an XFG…

Have you ever been in a trafic jam that lasts hours? if you had that kind of clutch in your car you would be off in 10minutes...


And i repeat... in racing, following some simple rooles, clutch is fine for infinite numper of laps... in AutoX layouts when will appear the need for more start-stop there is going to be really a problem...

I think that it didn’t go so well…

It is really not an event for newcomers… you must have eyes all round the car to pass the slower cars that don’t give way and also watch the faster cars behind you so you don’t block them.

There should be a lap time limit next time chosen by the organizer for each car, and the submitters have to be in a 103% range of that time so you can guarantee that racers have done a number laps and have kind of similar control abilities for the chosen track…

It will help if racers respect each other… calling the half grid idiots, doesn’t help at all…

Last edited by kaynd, Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:44.

It's allready taken by kloun