Quote from Shotglass :

which on snow pretty much equals locking the driven wheels (not that youd know living in sunny sa ... grrr)

You know, the climate is nearly the only nice thing here. 0-10 night time during winter, 12-18 during the day. 12-16 during the night in summer, 19-27 during the day. For the first time in like 20 years, it snowed here a few months ago and I was in Bulgaria on holiday at the time. They just have two seasons here, to be honest: 3 months winter, 9 months summer.

What I really love though is how they make their driveways. I kid you not, in one of the most expensive suburbs, here which sits on a steep hill, they make them roughly 25-35degree uphills to climb into your garage.

My friendly grammar nazi begs to differ... you can have "the reason why" and "the reason for"... and "the reason that", depending on the surrounding words. It just doesn't make sense to me. But anyway, that's irrelevant.

Funky constructs such as "reason for why" and a few others.

Sorry, OT question here, English is your first language, right?

:hihi:
This thread went from boring to hilarious. You should drop the point about clutching, ans7812. I think you quite clearly lost that one even if you did have a point (and you didn't).

Oh, yeah, the explanation in post #70:

Quote from ans7812 :

No. I slid because by depressing the clutch, essentially you are disengaging the transmission from the engine and allowing the drive wheels to spin freely with no resistance (engine). Because of the wet surface and the ability for the rear tires to spin freely, the rear got loose and i started to slide. That is why depressing the clutch in a turn is bad because it lets the drive wheels spin free.

I'd really like to know what will make them spin? And further more, there is friction between the road and the tyre. The tyre will always try to bring itself back to neutral slip angle/slip ratio, though it will have forces resisting this.

All in all, there is absolutely no reason why you can't enter a corner on clutch and go through it on clutch or even clutch mid-corner provided you don't do anything violent with the car... which applies to all the other controls also.

EDIT: Beaten by Tristan.

Last edited by axus, Tue, 21 Aug 2007 16:40.

If you don't heal-toe, it's difficult to get all your braking done, be in 2nd, and with the clutch released when you go into the corner. So you can go through most of the corner with the clutch pressed and do the rev-matching as you start applying power to leave the corner. Then you can release the clutch. It has obvious disadvantages performance-wise, but it's safe and easy. That's how I was taught by my dad anyway and it's never gotten him into a slide... and he used to drive a RWD Lada while we were in Bulgaria, on icy roads there.

The problem with the whole thread is you, ans7812, are a tool. You just everything the "professionals" tell you and regurgitate. I've not read a sensible post from you where you ARGUE your point... you know say WHY you are correct, more so than giving examples out of your great book of driving experiences or repeating what someone told you.

Regarding the having the clutch down in a corner, not everyone is taught to heal-and-toe. The second most sensible thing to do, performance disregarded is brake for a corner, press the clutch before the corner, move the gear level into the desired gear (usually 2nd), go through the corner and apply a small amount of power on the way out before releasing the clutch so that you don't get a jerk due to engine braking.

This thread is getting sooooo unbelievably boring.

Rubbish. On a loose surface especially, it's best to add power. Power digs the tyres in and gives them more lateral grip. This applies to rally and snow.

Furthermore, say you are about to cross a puddle, with one pair of tyres (ie. left or right) or all tyres, what is the safest thing to do? Stabilize the car in neutral acceleration before crossing the puddle. If you lift off completely, you will be slowing down, however slightly.

This also applies to firm surfaces that are very slippery if you get into a slide. For example ice. If you lift off completely, there is a HUGE chance of spinning, because
a) your rear tyres are loaded with slowing down the car, however slightly
b) there is more load on the outside rear tyre, which while slowing the car down may cause some undesirable torque to rotate the car into a slide in the opposite direction once you correct the initial slide
c) there is weight transfer to the front because you lifted.

On road, again, based on the same principles, you should never lift off to more than neutral acceleration. In most instances, you wouldn't even need to do that though.

Quote from ajp71 :

Oh god... how many times do we have to go through this? Even if the oversteer isn't caused by removing the throttle adding some can still help because when you apply power weight is still shifted to the rear of the car.

Not only that but 0 throttle doesn't mean 0 longitudinal acceleration because you still have friction! :doh:

Who said anything about accelerating as much as possible while correcting a slide? Tristan and Ajp are talking about just having a bit of gas so the car is stable. Furthermore, I just deduce that you're a clot because you seem to just blab on your own thing when I'm arguing pure physics with you.

ans7812, you are aware that while weight is in the process of being transfered (ie, say while you have angular velocity in the x-z plane, x being forwards and z being up) dampers push on the end of the car where weight is being transfered? So for example, you hit the brakes suddenly from full acceleration at speed. Not only do you have the difference in vertical force on the front vs back axle due to weight distribution but also due to changing weight distribution?

In LFS my instinct is always to lift off at most so much so that longitudinal acceleration becomes neutral.

I'd also like to throw a it of actual physics in:
Tyres, naturally, have the most available lateral grip per slip angle with 0 (or very close to) longitudinal slip. When you lift off the throttle completely, you are going to get negative longitudinal slip (the greater the speed, the more so).

Oversteer is caused by a relative lack of lateral grip at the back compared to the front. Lifting off completely in an RWD car will not only will you lose rear grip due to weight transfer but you will also not have neutral longitudinal acceleration. The most you should ever lift of in a slide is to the neutral throttle position - ie. the position that will keep your speed constant. In a FWD car, adding throttle (enough so to accelerate, ie. pulling out of the slide with power) will decrease the relative grip at the front by increasing the longitudinal slip and thus decreasing the front tyres' lateral grip and by transferring weight to the rear of the car.

Searching for Scawen's recent posts reveals this second-last post:
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=519933#post519933

Particular emphasis on "Anyway, I'll now close the thread and I'd be pleased if you would not open another one. I have work to do and I don't want to spend my time writing messages on the forum to people who want to sell their brother's license."

Thing is, Patch Y is going to be a huge update, I wouldn't be surprised if it only comes out December/January. In fact I'd put my money on Christmas.

I've popped in here and there on international servers lately and I've been very frustrated with what I shall call Insim spam. There are constant, distracting messages at the top left of the screen: person x set a great first sector, person y set a great lap and person z beat his pb in sector two. You beat your sector I pb by 0.02 of a second, well done! Do I really care? This information is useless to me as far as I going as fast as possible in a race goes and most of the servers I've joined have had 4 or 5 people, I can't imagine how dreadful it must be to race on a server with 25 people. I am well aware that it is possible to block both normal messages and system messages using shift+- but sometimes, whatever the reason you want to see the odd chat message. [/rant]

So I'd like to kindly ask InSim app developers to build in a /disablemessages command or something of the sort into their applications where it is not vital information for the user. Either that or avoid displaying information about other users to any particular user. I'm sure that most apps have the option disable each particular message from the application menu of most of these apps also, so I'll ask server admins to consider what they chose carefully.

Or maybe we can beg Scawen for more shift+- settings in future and we can have a "disable InSim messages settings" to spare the InSim developers the extra coding.

I also use that resolution and I have no problems. Hope you get it sorted soon though.

That still doesn't change the fact that I'd not live in a country where it's common for people sue someone because "his cat gave me a mean look" or something on principle.

Quote from Breizh :

Wow.. just wow.. am I getting this right? The government needs to tell the people what it ought to think?

No, they need to stop giving money to fat kids for suing McDonalds for becoming fat so that the fat kids stop suing McDonalds for becoming fat and take some responsibility.

It's the government that's in charge of the judicial system, after all.

That's really disturbing. Sentencing someone who is not very very clearly guilty to the death penalty is completely retarded. Not that the death penalty itself is not inhumane.

I think American people need to reassess their whole outlook on the law, and that must come from the government and filter down into the people. I wouldn't live anywhere where laws can be taken out of context so that someone can sue someone else for money on principle.

And, I hope theirishnoob's ban is going to be extended a little... 5 days is nothing.

Where's the Dec/Jan information from? And, this is not only an AI patch from what I've read - AFAIK there will be physics changes also. Seeing as the 3D models are being updated, as well as the AI (and Scawen said pitting can only be done in a physics incompatible patch from what I recall), Scawen might as well throw in a few physics changes. I think Scawen has mentioned longitudinal tyre force improvements, as well as Torsen differentials, hopefully for patch Y. And no-one will mind that. I think Patch Y will be a huge landmark for LFS, even more so than patch S, when we got the BF1.

Think about it: improvements for half the tracks, good interiors at long last, maybe some car model improvements, AI that is usable and physics updates. What more could one ask for?

Anyway, I wouldn't mind a Dec/Jan release either because this is a lot of updates.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters ... artner=rssnyt&emc=rss

Start saving up, guys. The bill will come in at $4million.

MAGGOT, I sang the praises of FLAC for ages until someone told me to do a blindfold test and see if I can tell it apart from 192kbps mp3 ripped from those same FLAC files. I tried various genres and I could not tell it apart. And that's on Sennheiser HD-595s. The compression on properly ripped mp3 using the lame encoder is very transparent indeed.

Doh, typo - crossfeed. :doh:

I use Foobar. Love it. Mainly because it's the only one I've found a decent crossfeed plugin for. It doesn't have the fancy playlist functionality but you can have playlists in separate tabs which is very convenient I find.

Last edited by axus, Fri, 10 Aug 2007 18:31.

If I say "I SPAM OLOLOLOLOLZ" in
REALLY
BIG
LETTERS, like so:

I SPAM OLOLOLOLOLZ,
I wonder if it will give BobSmith the excuse he needs to lock it.

Last edited by Bob Smith, Fri, 10 Aug 2007 17:37. Reason : yip