So Joe came here to disappoint us even more. The simple Pacejka formula took 20+ years to complete. Scawen wants to build a whole real-time system for this game to perfection and he is only 3 years into the project. What can we expect?
Well Pacejka is the Sheldon Cooper of tyre physics (theoretical), and Scawen is the Leonard of tyre physics(applied), so just because it took Pacejka took 20 years to invent/discover new tyre modelling system, does not mean anyone applying/implementing the same existing formula (be it Pacejka or finite model analysis) will take 20 years. This is because I assume that, like in any programming venture, we won't be discovering new theories or inventing theories, but we will be implementing existing theories. I presume that is what is happening in the case of LFS tire-modelling as well.
That said, it is not going to be straight forward either. But the main challenge I think, and as Scawen mentioned is to reuse/implement/apply the existing theories and formulae in such a way that neither speed nor accuracy are compromised too much for each other But will it take 2 years or more? may be yes!
Again, as I said in my response to Kristi, we cannot compare time taken to come up with a new thesis and the time taken to implement such thesis for example, if you are using Pacejka's formula, you need not re-do all the work that Pacejka did , because he already did it and we can use his deliverable in the form of his theories and formulae. But we have our own challenges in the programming realm. Let's hope it does n't take too long
Very well put.
I also toy around with simulated tyres in Matlab once in a while and I can see why it takes Scawen so long to come up with something really better than what we have now, but I would've struggled to put it so nicely. Again, well done.
By the way, I didn't realize before that the virtual tyre rig would allow the automated generation of (a large set of) Pacejka-constants. I wonder whether that's the route Scawen is taking.
I still firmly believe Scawen is devoting way too much time to issues we as players mostly don't even notice while he neglects issues as secondary that we very much notice, but that's his decision to make.
Scawen explains a bit about tyre dynamics, and also an outline of his implementation approach here.
I don't think he uses a Pacejka variant as is being suggested in this thread. I think that LFS feels so good when compared with other sims because it has a unique tyre model that is developed specifically to feel good when driven in a sim, rather than one that is tailored towards an academic or industrial context.
Scawen has admitted that if he had known how long it would take, they would have done things differently (here), but unfortunately, when you're breaking new ground, you will discover new unexpected problems - it goes with the territory.
I'm sure that no matter how frustrated any of us are about how long it's taking, Scawen is way more frustrated. Anyhow, I for one am looking forward to driving it when it's finally done.
Not a very big difference if you talk about visuals. It's more how the tyre shape and the contact patch changes with various forces. But how can Scawen show us what he's been working on, when it's basically lots of code? Physics is nothing which can be easily shown on screenshots. Yes, probably video comparisons but that would be a waste of time, we should better wait for the first test release, so we can experience it in the sim itself.
I have two theories:
1) code optimization consists in waiting until the hardware is at a level that can handle the calculations
2) in 2008 as a result of an unsuccessful experiment in the DEV's kitchen, was a small singularity (black hole) - as we know with great gravity, time runs slower, but only for people who are in the vicinity
Thanks for the link, I missed it somehow. I did some googleing on this brush tire model approach, it seems so much better then Pacejka! So, thats why LFS feels so realistic. God, I started thinking about this stuff again, downloaded some documentation I found interesting for later, instead of studying for my finals. I have to stay focused somehow!