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Great, let us know how it goes!

I recommend test patch R19 as it's really stable.
Quote from sicotange :Selection changes (real and in hand) are not taken into account?

It doesn't remember the type of selection, it just does a default selection type.

I think the resulting selection after an undo is 'clipboard' if the original operation was adding objects, 'real' otherwise.

Do let me know if anything is confusing or seems wrong.

Quote from sicotange :The UCID is reported in case of PMO_TTC_SEL, PMO_SELECTION, PMO_POSITION but is always 0 in case of PMO_ADD_OBJECTS and PMO_DEL_OBJECTS. Is this intentional? It would be helpful to be able to set the UCID to know who requested the packet in question.

I'm not sure how to reproduce that.

If I join a local host and I send add or delete packets (by deleting or adding an object in the layout editor) my UCID is reported.
C to clear
R19 :

Layout editor :
Undo (CTRL+Z) and redo (CTRL+Y) functions now included

Interface :
Improved readability of the text for the /cp command

InSim :
Fixed an inaccuracy in the reporting of objects being deleted
Quote from sicotange :Unrelated to 0.6R18 but could be considered a small bug. When an object(s) flags (changing colour or angle of a Wedge object for example) are modified the pair of PMO_MOVE_MODIFY is sent. But the Flags byte in the ObjectInfo of both the PMO_DEL_OBJECTS and PMO_ADD_OBJECTS is identical. The PMO_DEL_OBJECTS should show the old Flags while PMO_ADD_OBJECTS should show the new Flags.

I've fixed this in R19 which I hope to release today.

Quote from sicotange :Introduced with 0.6R16. When you copy, the grey outline remains even when you change the object flags and heading. When you press PGUP/PGDOWN on the other hand the outline disappears. I suppose this is intentional?

Yes, after you adjust the height of the objects in hand they are no longer identifiable as copies of the original objects.

Quote from iceman121 :I'm really questioning myself why Scawen or any part of his developers added such a low character limit to the dcon's welcome.txt file.. (I know it's not from those patches)

It's just a short text that is sent in a single packet, which is limited by the current LFS packet system. The user doesn't usually have long to read it so it's supposed to be something really short they can read in a few seconds (I know it's sometimes longer if they are waiting for a track load and a lot of skin downloaded).

Quote from THE WIZARD DK :however. im a bit confused now about skie files.
do they stay dds now or will they go back to .RAW again ? it seems to me they change here and there over time so i kinda got a complete warehouse now with both .raws and .dds files. it would be great to finally be able to clean that up Smile

also small dds question ? which dds color the windmills and the windmills wings?
been searching for that file for a year now. so thought i finally give up and simply ask.
(kinda the only files i cant find) (is it the grunge file ?

We are finished with raw files now. I think the skies will be supplied as dds files like the other textures. It's probably best to keep the raws for now but when the official patch comes you can delete all the raw files in the pic folder.

The wind turbines at BL and SO use a texture called "windgen"

Quote from :There is this new command for putting the camera position onto the clipboard ( /cp ) ... Which is nice but what I came to think of it earlier today... In my opinion it is highly desirable to have some sort of same command but then to put the location of currently selected layout objects onto the clipboard.


Now what I would like to see is some comma separated list of currently selected objects which include at least the AXO number (object identifier), the X and Y location. Maybe in JSON format like denis-takumi mentioned in his intro.. Or.. Oldskool Excel CSV format would also be workable.

I think this could be quite easy to do. A command that pastes a load of text onto the clipboard representing the current selection.

I think it's mainly a matter of choosing the right format.

Maybe there would be a number on the first line then subsequent lines have one object per line.

Such as: (this is completely made up)

56634, 24234, 56, 23, 129, 30
9934, 63543, 23, 122, 23, 90
5356, -33432, 80, 85, 23, 23

(possibly with spaces instead of commas, even easier to write a text parser that way)

Or would it be better to be really binary, like this:


Quote from :One other thing... Has an undo move object function ever been considered?

I've done this in R19 which I hope to release this evening.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :a lot of suggestions

In some ways, I like your suggestions. It's the sort of thing I like to do but really you are talking about a track editor.

The concrete objects in the layout editor were really designed to allow people to build a bridge or make slight modifications so people could make tracks out of open configs.

Of course, people have taken it much further than it was ever intended and that is great. There's a line to be drawn between taking the layout editor further, and moving to a full track editor. Where that line is, I am not certain. But this is a compatible patch so new objects and different adjustments will not be added. The fine control you would like over pitch, width, etc, would require more bytes per object. The current objects are 8 bytes each - they are super compressed. It's a big change to do the things you are talking about, but this test patch is coming to an end so I can get back to the things I was working on before I was interrupted by the attacks. So it's really off topic and I'll move it to a separate thread.

One thing, as cargame mentioned, there is already CTRL+left mouse button rectangle select.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Maybe the TCP packets are getting through but the UDP ones are not (they are used for the List of Hosts - and we don't know if you are having a problem with sending or receiving them - could be either).

What happens if you see the list of hosts at LFS World:

And you can try the "join" links or alternatively type the name into LFS in "Join Specific Host". This might give you more information.

I don't know why UDP packets wouldn't get through but it could be something to do with your ISP.
Quote from rc10racer :I'm sorry for going off topic but does lfs actually support ultra widescreen when in spectator mode as the black bars on the edge of the screen seems like it makes lfs feel old tech.

I don't know why, but some people find that option really hard to find.

Options... View... Full width external views
I've updated the description with the changes made over the past week.

One thing that isn't mentioned in the description is the new selection highlighting / guide lines which are very helpful for showing what is selected and for aligning concrete objects.

Interface :

Text message dialog now has variable width
A progress message is now displayed while converting textures
More updated translations - Thank you translators!

Layout editor :

FIX : Heading slider was not available in marshall mode
FIX : Top right and bottom right buttons sometimes overlapped

InSim :

New value PMO_MOVE_MODIFY sent in IS_AXM when adjusting objects
OK, I've found out the internal use of suppress_warnings isn't needed if there is a move_modify flag (because warnings about timing errors should be suppressed whenever objects are simply being moved/modified).

So what I've done is replaced the slightly unpredictable PMO_SUPPRESS_WARNINGS and instead there is a new flag PMO_MOVE_MODIFY with the same value.

It is now sent in both of the packets (add/delete) of a move/modify pair and in all cases when an object is conceptually moved or modified, including marshall object changes and when typing a start position index our a route checked index.
It looks simple to add a new flag in these cases, one that is ignored by LFS but should be output to InSim. It's easy for me to locate those cases where a modification or move is taking place (where it sends a delete immediately followed by add).

What exactly is it you would like? Something like PMO_MOVE_MODIFY (value 8) and that same flag would be placed in the delete packet and the add packet when they are being sent as a pair?

Is there any need to distinguish between (1) moving objects and (2) generally changing attributes like colour, size, etc? Or can they be treated all the same? There aren't all that many flags available in that byte so I only want to use up the minimum, but of course it should be as useful as possible.
R17: a quick update with a fix and an improvement for the new InSim packet.

New submode values added for IS_CIM modes CIM_NORMAL and CIM_GARAGE
FIX : IS_CIM was not output on local LFS while connected to a host
Quote from valiugera :I just wanna to see where i move the object when i select it before to press M.

OK, you don't want to know the reasons, so I'll just tell you the solution:

press CTRL+C after you have selected the objects.
We are getting very near to the end of this series of test patches now as I must get back to the real stuff I have been working until interrupted by the attacks.

Quote from DANIEL-CRO :Looks like IS_CIM packet isn't sent while online only in single player. Talking about LFS client to local InSim application.

I'll have a look at this, which is almost a bug, and see if I can implement those sub-mode states mentioned in your other post.

Quote from chucknorris :I'm actually quite happy with the new version, Thumbs up so I'm carefully raising my view to the horizon. Skins and PNG have been a recent thing, how about combining those two ? Wink

In the new graphics system that Eric is using to update the tracks, we have textures that use the alpha channel to control the shine level. So that would seem like a nice thing to consider on skins of the future but definitely not in this version.

Quote from valiugera :I still do not understand why after selecting an object that has already been placed I do not see where I move it with my hand. Confused

You can press CTRL+C if you want to copy the objects.

Why this is, I have tried to explain in a special thread:
That is the priority, yes.

These are the last few days of this test patch.

The full version is coming soon and I'm pleased it is more interesting (at least for some people) than simply a more robust way to connect to the master server and a fix for skin downloading.
Quote from R0ut66 :How can I see the preview when placing objects? Like, when I move the mouse cursor the object moves too like it used to be before the layout editor update?

Please read this:

Outline changed to line drawing which helps with object alignment
Original objects are now shown with grey lines after copy pressed
Drag select now has a minimum size to avoid accidental deselection
FIX : Heading bug after un-copying selection that had been rotated
FIX : CTRL+C un-copy cleared selection if originals were not found
FIX : Chalk objects were sometimes invisible in copied selection
Quote from MacedoSTI :scawen, i play lfs in windowed mode, and in R15 version the CTRL+C (block mouse for only lfs window) no work anymore, have other command for this??

It's CTRL+M now.

The change was to allow CTRL+C to be used for COPY.

Quote from chucknorris :I haven't found a better way of doing this now by pressing SPACE 2 times. Drawing an empty rectangle would be the alternative now.

I've done the minimum size rectangle to avoid the accidental deselection.

You can use a small rectangle to deselect if you like.

But - as you mention pressing the space bar twice - I'm just checking if you know about the C key? Smile
Quote from sicotange :The yellow outline is used for the last manually selected object. But how does that work with the CTRL+drag rectangle?

It sets the one nearest to the centre of the rectangle as the last selected object.

Quote from Flotch :very good improvements Thumbs up
(edit title still mentions now R14 Tongue )

Thanks - fixed.

Quote from chucknorris :Image demonstrating the issue from above:
As soon I press CTRL+C, the original selection becomes invisible. So I don't know which object I am going to modify when pressing m. I also have no confirmation that I don't have anything selected and maybe accidentally going to damage it.

Replying to you and Degats here.

How about if the originals were shown with a grey outline?

Quote from chucknorris :
Another issue:
Trying to select a series of single objects with CTRL+click is more difficult. As soon I miss one handle-dot, I lose the entire selection and have to start over. That used to be no problem before.

This is because LFS thinks you are doing a box select with a zero sized box. Maybe this could be fixed by only doing a box select if the box is a few pixels in size, or at least the size of a selection button.

Alternatively a box select could be ignored if it doesn't include any buttons.

An outline is now drawn around the selected objects
M key can now be used with clipboard objects (select then CTRL+C)
Multiple object rectangle select CTRL+drag with left mouse button
Thanks everyone for the positive comments. Those of you who do follow the forum know why it was worth spending a few of hours getting this little update together. Please you've had some fun with it. That's what LFS is all about, in my opinion. Having fun. Smile
Quote from F.C.Barcelona :I'm excited to see that scawen is still working on lfs

ohh wait...

There's so much content that you have never tried. We offer so much more than just Blackwood and 3 cars. But you have never tried it or contributed to our development. I guess you think it's a free game and we can live on nothing.

We're also working on loads of new things and don't need any comments from scroungers who can't be bothered to have a look around to find out what we are working on.
Quote from chucknorris :It was very easy to pick the object that I want to move. Then, I could easily move it or align it with something else and just press 'm'.

Quote from Degats :I have to agree that moving objects - especially if you're not 100% sure you actually want to move it yet - is a lot more complicated.

Would it be helpful if the M key was allowed to work after you have pressed CTRL+C?

I haven't tried it yet but it seems possible. As you know, the CTRL+C is reversible because the editor knows which objects were copied. So it seems that in those cases where you have a tricky move as you described, you would then be able to see the originals and the new position at the same time before pressing M.
Here's a semi-official version of 0.5F
LX8 GTR semi-official version 0.5F2
Dear Racers,

I am aware there is still a copy of the old 0.5F version of LFS, that was never released but was leaked in 2005, available on the internet and it's not too hard to find.

The only problem: there was no easy way to unlock it.

In fact there are other problems too... the LX8 GTR is way overpowered, underdeveloped and barely driveable! Big grin But I know there are people around who want to drive it so why not let them have a go?

So I had a look in some old backups on floppy discs and DVDs, started up an old computer that has a floppy disc drive and managed to get it compiling and made a few changes to make it work with new new master server and recent versions of Windows.

I don't recommend it at all but if you really want to try it and you have an S2 license, here it is! (90 MB)


It's a really old, unsupported version of Live for Speed
It was never ready for public use
The LX8 GTR is really not a good car to drive Ya right
It will not be developed or included in future versions
Last edited by Scawen, .