The online racing simulator
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Scawen
Developer
That's a pity about the shirt! We'll have to sort that out, I guess either by sending a replacement or a refund. Maybe you can use the opportunity to check the polo is a good size for you, and contact Victor through the Yordise web form.
https://www.lfsshop.com/?page=support&contact=us
Scawen
Developer
LFS by default uses the 1.3 or later Oculus runtimes (of course).

If you use Oculus 0.8 runtime then you need that DLL.

It really does work!
Scawen
Developer
This DLL still works with Live for Speed 0.6Q and there may still be people who want to use the old Oculus Runtime (0.8) for their DK2 rather than the new bug ridden bloatware that is required for the CV1.
Scawen
Developer
Of course it's true that some of the cars need updating. Most of all in my opinion the RB4, such a nice car but with the oldest interior of all. And the FZR and FXR that still have the road car interiors. I can't do that, I hope Eric will find some time to work on them but he has some tracks on the go at the moment. Note that the UF (that also needs updating) is mine, not Eric's.
Scawen
Developer
It might depend on which Oculus runtime you are using.

To use the new runtimes from Oculus (1.3 or later) you need a later version of Live for Speed, e.g. the current one LFS 0.6Q.

If you are using the very old Oculus runtime (runtime 0.8) that is still possible in the most recent versions of Live for Speed.
See this thread: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89572
Scawen
Developer
Thanks, everyone.

My thoughts are to get the tyre physics done without delays, without looking for perfection, just to get something out there that feels good and has a physical basis. The current public version tyre physics system uses some made-up force curves that are somewhat like real ones, and tuned to give reasonable output values, but they are not produced from an actual physical theory. The lateral and longitudinal forces are combined in a way that also is not based on physics, and was simply constructed to give a reasonable feeling.

In the new tyre physics, the forces are produced from code that follows physical laws, instead of looking up the forces from a curve. Lateral and longitudinal forces are output naturally, rather than being 'combined' in an arbitrary way.

There are assumptions involved, but they are 'known' assumptions that are there for a reason and can be improved upon in the future.

Anyway, I hope to continue with the work pace I have been doing in recent times, and don't see why this can't be the case.
Scawen
Developer
The cars were only one example. that's why I said "for example". For another example, the graphical systems need further updating before releasing public track editors. For example, I would prefer to have a new shadow system in place before releasing community editors that require community members to render their tracks using the outdated shadow rendering system. When the shadows are updated, tracks will need to be updated using the new shadow system.

Once again, it all comes back to the tyre physics, because after the tyre physics are completed, I can get back to the graphical updates.

There is no higher priority than the tyre physics. Remember, tyre physics... Scirocco... many years ago...
Scawen
Developer
I guess you are joking but, to make it quite clear anyway, I have to go through all cars reworking them after the tyre physics change. Basically giving them more realistic settings and design considerations to suit the more realistic physics.

The point is that if community made cars are available, it would be extremely difficult to rework 10,000 cars to remove all the bodges they have included to get around the flaws in the old physics.

There are so many reasons not to release community editors for an unfinished piece of software, I hope I don't need to explain it any more!

That is apart from the fact that updating editors and providing download services, compatibility checking, approval systems and so on will be many months of work, and as I keep saying, I don't want any more delays to the tyre physics.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Nats-Dad :Much though I like the upgrades, is there any chance of some new tracks that we can race on, or release a track maker/editor for people to create they're own tracks as an lfs community projects

We have always been interested in eventually releasing track and vehicle editors and we still hope to do so. But the idea has always beem to "finish" LFS first, and that means S3 license with some more default content and with updated tyre physics. For example, there is no point letting community members loose on developing cars, when the tyre physics would be changed significantly at some point.

Quote from nacim :Thanks for the update Scawen. I was wondering, since you are refactoring the tyre physics simulation, it is possible to implement some multithreading, even in a basic form (physics in another thread)?

I am interested to do this and it would be possible after the tyre physics is released. It is particularly difficult to do at the moment while there are two entirely separate branches of Live for Speed. It's a big task and not something I'd like to do twice.

As mentioned before, completing the tyre physics will allow many more possibilities for the future of LFS.
Scawen
Developer
I'm not making any test patch plans at the moment.

Right now I am working on the carcass simulation. Then I'll be working on the tread simulation. That's all I know for now.
Scawen
Developer
Banned cargame.nl for a month.
His previous post goes too far.
Better to have a break from here.

Meanwhile, I'm working on the tyre physics. The VR support really needed the 3D mirrors and that's why I did it. It really is the icing on the cake for VR support. Actually as I stated before there is something pretty bad about 2D mirrors in VR!
Scawen
Developer
Quote from cargame.nl :Did I tried VR yet? No. Do I have to? I know it seals you off -completely- from the real world. Blocking eye sight communication and audio, no need to try this, it's obvious. And it's something I don't want, why would you want to isolate yourself from your surroundings? This leads to broken relationships, general anti social behavior, loss of knowledge if it's dark or sunny outside etcetcetc... I repeat it one more time; it's idiotic.

Wrong. It does isolate your vision, yes, as that is the whole point, you have to be inside the virtual world. It doesn't have to isolate your hearing, you just use speakers or headphones, whatever you usually do in a sim.

It doesn't lead to broken relationships, you are getting a bit silly now. Obviously going for a half hour / one hour drive on your sim rig, doesn't harm your relationship in a different way if you have a headset on or a large monitor. It's just more fun in the headset because it's like you are really in the car. great fun and something that will no way fade away. It doesn't suffer from all the drawbacks of 3D TV, it's really not related to that.

VR is great for simulators, of course, because you are seated. For example when you used ETS to practice reversing. That experience could be seriously realistic if you had a headset on, because you could turn your head and look around just as in real life.

Obviously, you aren't ready for VR. It's not ready or good enough for most people. But it's not sensible to keep telling people it's stupid, specially if you haven't even tried it. It's actually quite amazing and has a definite place in the world, including in sim racing.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Dave, have you tried a VR headset yet? It's pretty good! Big grin

Yes, expensive at the moment, the Rift FOV is too narrow at around 90 degrees and the Oculus software is really awful, intrusive and full of bugs. The Vive has a whirring lighthouse system for positional tracking (though they are fairly quiet).

I can think of a more ideal headset with Rift style camera-based positional tracking, non-facebook software, Vive field of view (but preferably wider and with screens mounted horizontally), slightly higher resolution and lighter.

Some of this is coming. For many people it's best to wait for some of the necessary improvements. But it really is something to feel like you are in the car driving around, looking left and right at seemingly real sized cars next to you!

No-one in my family thinks I look stupid, they just want to have a go! There's a strange thing where you can be in the two realities at the same time. Driving around in the virtual world, but also able to talk to the person who just entered the room behind you.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from englishlord :A suggestion, maybe have that shop site linked or even better merged, in the shop section of the main site.

It's about to close down, which is why there is a super sale on.

Yordise is a separate business, run by Victor, to avoid complicating Live for Speed's accounts and tax returns. Live for Speed only supplies electronic services. So that's one reason why Yordise has its own site.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Jenner :Please let me order from the USA.

It would have been good to include USA but Victor said there are extra forms to fill in. Unfortunately shipping costs are not the only barrier.
Scawen
Developer
If shipping costs were lower, and there were not paperwork and tax issues to overcome, then the merchandise shop would have been more successful. It's a pity because the shirts are high quality and comfortable to wear. The new prices per item are far lower than the original production cost. But obviously we cannot ship below cost. Smile
Scawen
Developer
I haven't heard of that until now and don't know why that happens.

But to save you resetting the USB connection, can you try "reinitialising controllers" in LFS? That is SHIFT+C in game or the refresh button in the controller options screen (or /refresh text command in that screen which may be assigned to your F5 key).
Scawen
Developer
He has had at least 4 bans, increasing in length, starting with a two week ban for "foul language and offensive, threatening behaviour" in 2007. This one is for a year. I suppose he'll be back after a year, do the same again and receive a longer ban. We are very tolerant with offenders and we give them many chances to get their act together. I was trying not to overreact. It's easy to give bans that are too long when you are annoyed so these days I try to go on the lenient side. I always think people can learn, though obviously this doesn't seem to be true in some cases.
Scawen
Developer
Banned petercollins for attacking us with false claims and swearing at us like an idiot. Absolutely no point having an unpleasant character like that around here. That was not constructive and reasoned criticism.
Scawen
Developer
Yeah, we all know I need to get back on the tyre physics. I've started looking into that today, reading a few things, thinking how to start tackling the problems, seeing where I'm at, coming up with a plan of attack.

I think it's a case of coming in from two directions. One, looking in the code, making some notes, removing any code which is based on false assumptions, then coming up with good models to replace it. Two, at the same time, reading up on the elements that need to be modelled better. Plenty of testing all the way and extracting data to compare with real world data, and making sure everything scales nicely...

I will not try to aim for perfection. Far from it, the aim is to produce something that feels better to drive than the old tyre model for the sake of online racing. It will be a closer match with the behaviour of real world tyres, and will be based on reasonable assumptions and approximations, that can be improved upon in the future.


About the 0.6Q update. 3D mirrors were on my list for a long time. 2D mirrors really look quite bad in VR, as if there were LCD screens where your mirrors should be. Totally wrong. One day it just came to me how to do them. A half day experiment proved to me that the concept would work. As usual I thought it would all be done in a few days, but in fact was more like six weeks, with all the complications that came up and trying not to lose too much frame rate. I'm really happy with the result and LFS graphics came on a small step for everyone.

GamerMuscle has made a video featuring the new mirrors in LFS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKBNfJFNkUY
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Thanks for the feedback!

Quote from Rocket-Racer :Maybe I found a Bug:

As a NVIDIA 3D Vision User, the Mirror is displayed with a graphic bug at the right eye but only if I had enabled Mirror Antialiasing 4x.

I don't know what the Nvidia 3D Vision does, or the different ways it can work, but are you using it to "force" LFS into a 3D mode? If so, I would not expect it to work properly. Or do you enter a 3D mode using the 3D menu in game? I mean Options... View... 3D? In this case I would expect it to work, because LFS knows it is in 3D mode.
Update to 0.6Q recommended
Scawen
Developer
Dear Hosters,

I recommend you update to the new DCon 0.6Q when convenient. It's a fully compatible version.

The UDP send buffer size has been increased. It was too small at busy times on busy servers so some position packets could get lost. The fix seemed to be successful in testing.

https://www.lfs.net/downloads
Scawen
Developer
Thank you all for the testing, bug reports, suggestions and translations.

Version 0.6Q is now available! https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89918
Scawen
Developer
Thanks for the support!

Version 0.6Q is now available!

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/89918
New version 0.6Q - Realistic mirrors, better controller support and more
Scawen
Developer
Hello Racers!

Today we are pleased to announce a new update with graphical improvements, better controller support and more.

The main graphical update is a new system to simulate the mirrors realistically. Each mirror's image is drawn from a separate reflected location, so the interior mirror looks out through the rear window and you can see the sides of your car in the side mirrors. In VR and other 3D modes, a full stereoscopic image is generated for each mirror.

The lighting system for cars has been improved and your own car's shadow is now visible from internal views.

Multiple controller support is simpler to use and you can now easily select a single controller from a list of connected devices. Steering wheel rotation is automatically limited to the correct angle for your selected car.

In "Free view" mode there is a new "walk" option that allows you to wander around in the environment with the view point maintained at eye level. This was designed to help with our development because of the unique view it gives, specially when used in VR mode.

Read all about the update and how to install it on the 0.6Q information page.

- LFS Developers
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