Well, if some people didn't take a sensible approach to creating a LOD2 model, despite examples and explanations, then if we need to enforce a sensible limit and that means people finally have to do the right thing, that's not really a problem in my view.
It may have to be done. My mistake for not setting a limit in the first place, mod creators' mistake for not taking a sensible approach. The outcome... just fix it.
Remember, we have a new graphics version we would like to release relatively soon and in there are shadow maps which mean any cars in view are drawn multiple times so poorly made mods will become more of a problem.
It may have to be done. My mistake for not setting a limit in the first place, mod creators' mistake for not taking a sensible approach. The outcome... just fix it.
Remember, we have a new graphics version we would like to release relatively soon and in there are shadow maps which mean any cars in view are drawn multiple times so poorly made mods will become more of a problem.
Well I have to stop discussing this now.
I'm sorry but your PC is the only one reported to have this problem, so I have to suggest there is something wrong with your PC's setup or its ability to deal with D3D9.
Maybe there is another reason to suspect there is something wrong with your PC or its settings, if ordinary games don't run with official drivers.
LFS has the reputation of being rock solid and not crashing. This is the first time in 20 years I've heard of "out of memory" and it's only your PC so I don't think I can deal with this.
[RealistAdam, an OOS bug is not a crash, so please don't talk about any other bugs on this thread which is specifically about crashes]
I'm sorry but your PC is the only one reported to have this problem, so I have to suggest there is something wrong with your PC's setup or its ability to deal with D3D9.
Maybe there is another reason to suspect there is something wrong with your PC or its settings, if ordinary games don't run with official drivers.
LFS has the reputation of being rock solid and not crashing. This is the first time in 20 years I've heard of "out of memory" and it's only your PC so I don't think I can deal with this.
[RealistAdam, an OOS bug is not a crash, so please don't talk about any other bugs on this thread which is specifically about crashes]
OK but how does it affect LFS?
If you could test and see if the memory usage issue and crash comes up with Adrenaline drivers, that would be useful information.
If you could test and see if the memory usage issue and crash comes up with Adrenaline drivers, that would be useful information.
Maybe it's worth trying the Adrenaline drivers, if possible, to see how it affects thjis specific issue.
I don't know how much of a problem that might be but maybe there's an issue with the D3D9 support.
I don't know how much of a problem that might be but maybe there's an issue with the D3D9 support.
The limit for the physics LOD, whether it is in LOD2 or LOD3, has always been:
Vehicle: points 24 / triangles 42
Object: points 32 / triangles 60
There's no mod killing, just a request for people to fix their hacks and help make a good racing / online experience. We don't want to host poorly made lazy mods on our system. There's no need for shoddy work.
Let's not pretend there's something good about people making LOD2 a duplicate of LOD1, or a pointless empty LOD2, or single wheels with more polygons than 9 Raceabouts, or LOD1 with an "export only - do not use" config with half the model deleted, only to cheat the limit.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Flame is correct. The hard limit that the exporter will allow for LOD2 is 8192, but it is a bad target. A sensible target is around 1000 triangles.
It is common (generally, not only in game editors) for a sensible target to be much less than the legal limit.
However, I am still considering the possibility of bringing the legal limit for LOD2 down to something sensible. In the early days I didn't realise how important it was to be strict about enforcing sensible limits. Maybe the LOD2 limit should really be 2048 or so.
It is common (generally, not only in game editors) for a sensible target to be much less than the legal limit.
However, I am still considering the possibility of bringing the legal limit for LOD2 down to something sensible. In the early days I didn't realise how important it was to be strict about enforcing sensible limits. Maybe the LOD2 limit should really be 2048 or so.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Strange, I've been there at Westhill and my LFS memory usage was around 760 MB.
What do you do when you are there? Just in case it's something you do rather than something to do with your computer or settings.
What about graphics drivers? Are they updated, is there anything unusual about your graphics system?
What do you do when you are there? Just in case it's something you do rather than something to do with your computer or settings.
What about graphics drivers? Are they updated, is there anything unusual about your graphics system?
I think normally you should use swap side?
For reference, in the UK we have RHD vehicles but indicator stick is to the left of the steering column, I think it's also on the left in LHD cars?
For reference, in the UK we have RHD vehicles but indicator stick is to the left of the steering column, I think it's also on the left in LHD cars?
I've made a small update to the page View your own vehicle mods to help with this.
In tabs 'Saved' / 'Changes required' / 'Published' there is now a VIEW DETAILS link below each mod's image.
So it's easy to go to your mod's info page where you can find "Download original archive".
I don't really want to lay down the law as such, but maybe a good guide would be our most recently updated car, the RB4 GT.
Eric is an artist and like most artists he would like to use more polygons, but he is also a game developer so tries to do what he can without being excessive with the numbers.
There are other ways to optimise models too, for example by using one texture page for several cutouts, within reason and when that is convenient (not possible for 'repeating' textures).
Note that "attachment" subobjects are merged into the main object so it's a good idea for attachments to share texture pages with the main object too (when convenient) as if they were part of the main object.
Also, most cars should have "Concealed driver" enabled. Driver not concealed is only needed for things like karts and bikes (when you can see the driver's body from a long distance away). ordinary road cars have concealed driver and this is a significant CPU saving. This setting does not affect the helmet, which is drawn anyway.
Eric is an artist and like most artists he would like to use more polygons, but he is also a game developer so tries to do what he can without being excessive with the numbers.
There are other ways to optimise models too, for example by using one texture page for several cutouts, within reason and when that is convenient (not possible for 'repeating' textures).
Note that "attachment" subobjects are merged into the main object so it's a good idea for attachments to share texture pages with the main object too (when convenient) as if they were part of the main object.
Also, most cars should have "Concealed driver" enabled. Driver not concealed is only needed for things like karts and bikes (when you can see the driver's body from a long distance away). ordinary road cars have concealed driver and this is a significant CPU saving. This setting does not affect the helmet, which is drawn anyway.
As mentioned in the first post, you don't *have* to do an intermediate LOD. Better have only two LODs than a bad intermediate LOD. Of course, that's not really a finished mod. A finished mod has 3 LODs.
For examples of what I think LOD2 should be, please look at the official LFS cars supplied with the editor. In my opinion they should be somewhere in the region of around 1000 triangles.
It's not a huge task, compared with making a mod. It's just a simple model that will create a good shadow and look reasonable in the middle distance when LFS switches to the lower LOD mesh to save CPU and GPU time, to keep a good frame rate.
For examples of what I think LOD2 should be, please look at the official LFS cars supplied with the editor. In my opinion they should be somewhere in the region of around 1000 triangles.
It's not a huge task, compared with making a mod. It's just a simple model that will create a good shadow and look reasonable in the middle distance when LFS switches to the lower LOD mesh to save CPU and GPU time, to keep a good frame rate.
Thank you, that is on topic, as I am trying to help get mods more optimal.
I'll have a look in the editor tomorrow and see if I can spot any issues.
I'll have a look in the editor tomorrow and see if I can spot any issues.
I hope so too. Some of the mods were seriously beyond any reason, I found one that had 65536 triangles per wheel and several with 32000 triangles per wheel.
For reference, the entire Raceabout model (excluding wheels) is 7288 triangles. So 4.5 times that for a single wheel is just silly.
Also quite a few people have abused the LOD system, for example by making LOD2 a straight copy of LOD1 which is really not the spirit, and makes the car take twice as long to generate.
It's pointless, as LOD2 is not actually a requirement. It's possible (and fine for WIP mods) to have only a main LOD and a physics LOD.
Another part of the pitout glitch that will not be fixed at this point, is texture loading. I've worked on that in thew new development version which I want to work on and release. Textures are loaded gradually over the coming frames instead of all at once. So I hope that mod creators will cooperate and do the right thing, so that I have more time available to work on actual development.
For reference, the entire Raceabout model (excluding wheels) is 7288 triangles. So 4.5 times that for a single wheel is just silly.
Also quite a few people have abused the LOD system, for example by making LOD2 a straight copy of LOD1 which is really not the spirit, and makes the car take twice as long to generate.
It's pointless, as LOD2 is not actually a requirement. It's possible (and fine for WIP mods) to have only a main LOD and a physics LOD.
Another part of the pitout glitch that will not be fixed at this point, is texture loading. I've worked on that in thew new development version which I want to work on and release. Textures are loaded gradually over the coming frames instead of all at once. So I hope that mod creators will cooperate and do the right thing, so that I have more time available to work on actual development.
Better NO Lod2 than a TERRIBLE Lod2
Dear Mod Creators,
I can't get my head around why people insist on doing a terrible LOD2.
I get it, you don't have 30 mins spare to do it properly. But please DON'T get LOD1 and delete polygons until it's under the extreme limit.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO ADD LOD2 (but if you do it should have below 1000 triangles or so)
While you are waiting for 30 mins in your busy schedule at some time in the next few weeks, for now just DON'T DO LOD2.
We've explained it several times, we have special thread about it and an LFS Manual page.
You are making life complicated for yourself and making a bad mod, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO!
Just read this, you'll know what to do. Please work with us, not against us.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106736
I'm trying to finish dealing with mod issues, so I can work on the graphical version. Please help by doing the right thing.
I can't get my head around why people insist on doing a terrible LOD2.
I get it, you don't have 30 mins spare to do it properly. But please DON'T get LOD1 and delete polygons until it's under the extreme limit.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO ADD LOD2 (but if you do it should have below 1000 triangles or so)
While you are waiting for 30 mins in your busy schedule at some time in the next few weeks, for now just DON'T DO LOD2.
We've explained it several times, we have special thread about it and an LFS Manual page.
You are making life complicated for yourself and making a bad mod, BUT YOU DON'T HAVE TO!
Just read this, you'll know what to do. Please work with us, not against us.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106736
I'm trying to finish dealing with mod issues, so I can work on the graphical version. Please help by doing the right thing.
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