The online racing simulator
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Scawen
Developer
I mentioned in the first post of this thread that we planned to release images of the graphical updates this month. Since then we have been brushing up the existing updates to be ready to make some screenshots.

It has been a useful process as Eric visited the already updated tracks to fix remaining issues, while I got back into looking around the tracks and noticing things I could fix.

As we looked around with our thoughts on the screenshots, we noticed there are things I should work on to improve the screenshots. I will do some of those. So as it turns out our plan has changed a bit to release screenshots in August rather than July.

I wanted to tell you about that change of plan. Also I can say a a few more words about what we are doing and why.

The new shadow system requires an update of every track before we can release it. Some scenery objects were not built in a way that works properly with the shadow maps. For example, every building must have a roof so that shadows are cast correctly. Some of the tracks were built so long ago that they were never designed to be viewed from above. At that time there was no real Free View mode, so things like that were invisible. It's an opportunity to visit every track and bring them up to date, also making the roads and a lot of other scenery make use of the specular reflections, 3D kerbs, better scaled scenery, improvements on some corners and so on. There will not be a "full Westhill" job done on every track. Some tracks will change more than others. We need to remain focussed on getting the updates done, not letting the job expand out of hand, although it is fun doing so many updates. We look forward to showing you some screenshots in August.
Scawen
Developer
I don't know how it has happened but it seems your LFS.exe is running in the wrong location (or part of your installation is missing but that seems less likely). This can happen if the patch is installed in the wrong place, though the installer tries to avoid that possibility.

I would inspect the shortcut to see where your LFS.exe is located, so maybe you can find out what has gone wrong, and you might want to delete the incorrectly installed files if that is the case.

A manual patch installer is available https://www.lfs.net/patch-6t

Or you can go for the full version install, but I'd recommend finding out where your old install is so you can delete it. As Wizard says you may wish to copy some files (setups, skins, etc) in from your old folder if there were some you wanted to keep.
Scawen
Developer
Thanks, I see what you mean, the page is now not quite right, since the runtime install is in fact available from Microsoft.

We don't want to provide a link to the MS page because it is annoying when they randomly change the URL leaving us with a dead link. But we could change the text, yes.

By the way, the required files are D3DCompiler_43.dll and D3DX9_43.dll which are now supplied in your LFS\dll folder.
Scawen
Developer
I do want to try this option at some point.

Quote from Xenix74 :Aha, Okay!

I use a simple Smartphone (with Trinus, Moonlight and TrackIr) i can adjust this setting.

I have exact the same problem like you until i disable this movements.

With your phone VR setup, when you enter 3D mode in LFS, which option do you select for Display Type?
Scawen
Developer
I don't really have any difficulty thinking of a solution. I just don't want to release a test patch with this little update. It's on the list for the next patch but there is no time estimate for it.

By the way, I remembered why I changed to the new function. It wasn't actually to save the few lines of code with the convenient function. The main reason was that in the development version, I wanted a copy_file that preserved the file dates. The solution I'm happy with is to reinstate the old copy_file for the purpose of copying the downloaded files, but retain the new version for the development version purposes.
Scawen
Developer
Or maybe that amazing 3D view of cities on Google maps where everything is a 3D model?

https://goo.gl/maps/nBo7zx4kE2s

Not possible but would be cool! Big grin
Scawen
Developer
Quote from avih :There could be other scenarios, like if the setup is on a read-only media. In general, I'd think it should be considered an LFS issue, as it's LFS itself which imports the file and expects the result to be writable (apparently) but doesn't take steps to ensure it.

Agreed:

Quote from Scawen :I think it can be fixed by writing my own version of CopyFile. It would read the file and save a fresh copy of it with default attributes, disregarding the source file attributes. Only trouble is I don't want to get back into test patches now so it could be a long wait.

Scawen
Developer
Well, as I said, it's a topic that creates strong feelings. Those who promote the "fixed to horizon" method can't seem to understand the way it is "wrong". I just want to give one example, you drive along a road and beside you is a 45 degree grass slope. You then drive your car along so that the car goes sideways up that slope (the left wheels are on the slope while your right wheels are on the road). Now stop your car. In the real world (in your office) you are sitting there and the wheel is in front of you. But the wheel in VR has moved around 45 degrees to the left. And your hands in the game are no longer in the same place where your real hands are. To many of us this would be a serious problem. We don't have the motion sickness problem and just want to be in the cockpit, the same way as you would be in a flight simulator. When a plane does a roll, you see the ground 'up' above and the sky 'down' below. This is the same method many (I believe most) people want it in a car simulator. But I do understand that other people are more susceptible to motion sickness so they want the view fixed to horizon even if it means they just have to live with the steering wheel in game moving around while the real one stays in the same place. What will never happen is that either of these groups of people will believe the other method is better. But what they can do is understand the reasons for different people wanting a different method.
Scawen
Developer
Locking camera to horizon is something I would like to try at some point, for people who have the motion sickness issue. But it is a very 'wrong' solution in a sense. It's the sort of thing which creates strongly opposing views. Locking the camera to the cockpit (as in LFS and, I'm sure, absolutely required for a flight simulator if you were doing loops and rolls) means your steering wheel and seat can be in the same place where you see it in VR. Locking to horizon means that your in-game steering wheel and seat will seem to move around while your desktop steering wheel and seat stays in the same place.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Kova. :Guess it's related with the 0.6T, since it happened after i updated the game... But when the FPS or time are set to be shown on the left, nothing appear, but when it's set on the right, it's working. Any way to fix that?

I think you need to switch off the LFS logo. At the bottom of Options... Misc.

I think you have it set to be displayed, and that hides the FPS/Time but the logo is in turn hidden by the InSim buttons.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Sobis :Though it is interesting that the problem was noticed only after the new patch!

In 0.6R I did have my own code in there that did the job. But I just came across that CopyFile Windows function one day and thought it would be good to use it. I guess for no real reason than to save a few lines of code.

Just for interest:

For comparison, here's the old function:

int copy_file(ccs src, ccs dst)
{
FILE *fin = fopen(src, read_bin);
if (fin==NULL) return 0;

fseek(fin, 0, SEEK_END);
int size = ftell(fin);

if (size==-1)
{
fclose(fin);
return 0;
}

fseek(fin, 0, SEEK_SET);

byte *mem = new byte[size];
fread(mem, 1, size, fin);
fclose(fin);

FILE *fout = fopen(dst, write_bin);
if (fout==NULL)
{
delete [] mem;
return 0;
}

fwrite(mem, 1, size, fout);
fclose(fout);
delete [] mem;
return 1;
}

And here's the new one which is very compact but causes that issue:

int copy_file(ccs src, ccs dst)
{
return CopyFile(src, dst, FALSE);
}

Scawen
Developer
OK - I've reproduced that too. When selecting "Open with Live for Speed" in Firefox's download dialog it is copied with read only attributes.

I wonder why that is. I suppose that temporary copy held by Firefox is read-only for some reason.

EDIT: I think it can be fixed by writing my own version of CopyFile. It would read the file and save a fresh copy of it with default attributes, disregarding the source file attributes. Only trouble is I don't want to get back into test patches now so it could be a long wait.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
OK, I don't know why they are converted to read-only when they are copied from your download location into data\setup by LFS.

It's not something LFS is doing, at least not deliberately. I'm on Windows 7 and that doesn't happen on my computer.

LFS is using the CopyFile function.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/api/winbase/nf-winbase-copyfile

From the documentation:
File attributes for the existing file are copied to the new file. For example, if an existing file has the FILE_ATTRIBUTE_READONLY file attribute, a copy created through a call to CopyFile will also have the FILE_ATTRIBUTE_READONLY file attribute. For more information, see Retrieving and Changing File Attributes.


I don't see any reason why it would change the attributes. Uhmm
Scawen
Developer
Are they set to be read only files for some reason?
Scawen
Developer
Good to hear it was busy at the last event and that you have some more booked! Smile

Quote from SimulatorRental.com :The forum shows me as being the last to reply here, and I did reply to this, but my reply is not showing up.

That forum bug is fixed now and that original reply is now visible.
Scawen
Developer
That seems very unusual! I think it looks as if the unfinished image is being presented as a completed frame.

Somehow I feel it's a driver fault. I suppose we'll wait and see if anyone else gets this.

Random thought: Is it the same if vertical sync is enabled / disabled?
Scawen
Developer
I removed the img tags in your post as they forced every visitor to this page to download huge image files.

For some reason your attachment has disappeared in the process, which I did not intend. Maybe a forum bug?

Anyway, obviously we provide patches and updates with working shaders. If you use modified shaders maybe you should keep the originals backed up so if there is a change you can install a working set until your custom shader developer updates his or her shaders.

We are going to update the shaders sometimes, it's part of the development process.
Scawen
Developer
Of course not. There is no way on earth we would drop the far improved editor to go back to the old fatally flawed one. Please try to understand how to use the updated editor. It does everything the old one did and quite a lot more.

Reasons, explanations: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92152-The-layout-editor-changes
Scawen
Developer
I suppose so but just to be clear this was done more than 10 years ago, it's nothing new, so I'm not regarding it as a priority for now.
Scawen
Developer
That's the result of the special code which reduces the pit-out glitch. It deliberately avoids loading the textures of the car of a player who joins while you are driving, because doing so can cause a glitch. Then when you stop your car or the race restarts, those textures are loaded.
Scawen
Developer
Wizard, I have one idea for you to try. I wonder if your computer could be slowed down when people join by massively full skins_x or skins_y folders. Then Windows could take a seemingly long time (fraction of a second) to search the list of files.

So a possible solution to try is to temporarily rename those folders to something else (before you start LFS). Then LFS will create an empty folder when you start it and Windows won't be searching through hundreds of files to see if a skin is available each time someone joins. Of course, this is quite irrelevant if there aren't many files in those folders.
Scawen
Developer
I don't actually think VOB mods affect other people, because the mod is only on their computer, not yours. On your computer you just see the unmodified car - loading happens in the same way as usual. So if the mod is constructed in such a way that is has the same physics bounding box, then it passes the OOS check and all is well and collisions take place as normal.

We don't support such mods in any way. They are only 'wrong' in the sense that all cars of that type look different on the modded computer. But I don't believe they are harming other players.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from x25xe :how the indicator will close?

https://www.imagevisit.com/images/2018/07/08/Adsiza38af4ebb6ee9416.png

Quote from Yukesekai :Updated to 0.6T. Someone above already asked this but it was not answered properly. How to remove the lfs.net logo/watermark from the top left of the screen while in game?

Before the update it wasn't there. I had my FPS showing on that side but now I can only set my FPS to be shown on the top right.

This can be switched off in Options - Misc.

This option is only available for licensed users.

The idea of the demo is to try out Live for Speed, and if you like it we hope you'll buy a license which we think is great value as you get all future updates with no extra charge. If people buy a license then we can buy food, clothes, pay our taxes and so on, to allow us to continue developing LFS. We think it is a good idea to show demo racers the website address to remind them in case they forget! Smile
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Scawen :I'll look at that crash address later and see if I can get any info from it. Thanks.

Quote from 3T- :Thank you Tongue

I've narrowed this down quite a lot.

As far as I can see this can only be when:

1) You are driving.
2) A certain car joins and you haven't seen that car since joining the server.

Then it uses the "use blank textures to reduce pit-out glitch" code and that is the only time the function where the crash occurred is ever called.

To cause the crash in that case:

3) The car that joined has a texture without a name.
4) The material being created is of a type that we haven't used in any of our car models.

I've loaded the 20 LFS cars to check and in theory this situation cannot come up. So that makes me wonder if you have installed one of those 'safe' VOB mods that is purely visual and doesn't create any advantage or out-of-sync in multiplayer.

Obviously I don't hold it against you for using such a mod - it's not cheating in any way, but it would be great if you could confirm if you do have any VOB mods in your data\veh folder. In that case it would explain why most people aren't getting the crash and if you replace the official .vob files problem would then go away.
Scawen
Developer
I'll look at that crash address later and see if I can get any info from it. Thanks.
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