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Scawen
Developer
I've updated the description with the changes made over the past week.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92152

One thing that isn't mentioned in the description is the new selection highlighting / guide lines which are very helpful for showing what is selected and for aligning concrete objects.
Scawen
Developer
R18:

Interface :

Text message dialog now has variable width
A progress message is now displayed while converting textures
More updated translations - Thank you translators!

Layout editor :

FIX : Heading slider was not available in marshall mode
FIX : Top right and bottom right buttons sometimes overlapped

InSim :

New value PMO_MOVE_MODIFY sent in IS_AXM when adjusting objects

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
Scawen
Developer
OK, I've found out the internal use of suppress_warnings isn't needed if there is a move_modify flag (because warnings about timing errors should be suppressed whenever objects are simply being moved/modified).

So what I've done is replaced the slightly unpredictable PMO_SUPPRESS_WARNINGS and instead there is a new flag PMO_MOVE_MODIFY with the same value.

It is now sent in both of the packets (add/delete) of a move/modify pair and in all cases when an object is conceptually moved or modified, including marshall object changes and when typing a start position index our a route checked index.
Scawen
Developer
It looks simple to add a new flag in these cases, one that is ignored by LFS but should be output to InSim. It's easy for me to locate those cases where a modification or move is taking place (where it sends a delete immediately followed by add).

What exactly is it you would like? Something like PMO_MOVE_MODIFY (value 8) and that same flag would be placed in the delete packet and the add packet when they are being sent as a pair?

Is there any need to distinguish between (1) moving objects and (2) generally changing attributes like colour, size, etc? Or can they be treated all the same? There aren't all that many flags available in that byte so I only want to use up the minimum, but of course it should be as useful as possible.
Scawen
Developer
R17: a quick update with a fix and an improvement for the new InSim packet.

New submode values added for IS_CIM modes CIM_NORMAL and CIM_GARAGE
FIX : IS_CIM was not output on local LFS while connected to a host

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
Scawen
Developer
Quote from valiugera :I just wanna to see where i move the object when i select it before to press M.

OK, you don't want to know the reasons, so I'll just tell you the solution:

press CTRL+C after you have selected the objects.
Scawen
Developer
We are getting very near to the end of this series of test patches now as I must get back to the real stuff I have been working until interrupted by the attacks.

Quote from DANIEL-CRO :Looks like IS_CIM packet isn't sent while online only in single player. Talking about LFS client to local InSim application.

I'll have a look at this, which is almost a bug, and see if I can implement those sub-mode states mentioned in your other post.

Quote from chucknorris :I'm actually quite happy with the new version, Thumbs up so I'm carefully raising my view to the horizon. Skins and PNG have been a recent thing, how about combining those two ? Wink

In the new graphics system that Eric is using to update the tracks, we have textures that use the alpha channel to control the shine level. So that would seem like a nice thing to consider on skins of the future but definitely not in this version.

Quote from valiugera :I still do not understand why after selecting an object that has already been placed I do not see where I move it with my hand. Confused

You can press CTRL+C if you want to copy the objects.

Why this is, I have tried to explain in a special thread: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92152
Scawen
Developer
That is the priority, yes.

These are the last few days of this test patch.

The full version is coming soon and I'm pleased it is more interesting (at least for some people) than simply a more robust way to connect to the master server and a fix for skin downloading.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from R0ut66 :How can I see the preview when placing objects? Like, when I move the mouse cursor the object moves too like it used to be before the layout editor update?

Please read this: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92152
Scawen
Developer
R16:

Outline changed to line drawing which helps with object alignment
Original objects are now shown with grey lines after copy pressed
Drag select now has a minimum size to avoid accidental deselection
FIX : Heading bug after un-copying selection that had been rotated
FIX : CTRL+C un-copy cleared selection if originals were not found
FIX : Chalk objects were sometimes invisible in copied selection

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
Scawen
Developer
Quote from MacedoSTI :scawen, i play lfs in windowed mode, and in R15 version the CTRL+C (block mouse for only lfs window) no work anymore, have other command for this??

It's CTRL+M now.

The change was to allow CTRL+C to be used for COPY.

Quote from chucknorris :I haven't found a better way of doing this now by pressing SPACE 2 times. Drawing an empty rectangle would be the alternative now.

I've done the minimum size rectangle to avoid the accidental deselection.

You can use a small rectangle to deselect if you like.

But - as you mention pressing the space bar twice - I'm just checking if you know about the C key? Smile
Scawen
Developer
Quote from sicotange :The yellow outline is used for the last manually selected object. But how does that work with the CTRL+drag rectangle?

It sets the one nearest to the centre of the rectangle as the last selected object.

Quote from Flotch :very good improvements Thumbs up
(edit title still mentions now R14 Tongue )

Thanks - fixed.

Quote from chucknorris :Image demonstrating the issue from above:
https://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads9/5ae8b1f3b78a6/5ae8b1f3b0875-unmarked_reference.gif
As soon I press CTRL+C, the original selection becomes invisible. So I don't know which object I am going to modify when pressing m. I also have no confirmation that I don't have anything selected and maybe accidentally going to damage it.

Replying to you and Degats here.

How about if the originals were shown with a grey outline?


Quote from chucknorris :
Another issue:
https://www.imgdumper.nl/uploads9/5ae8b28342b8c/5ae8b2833adcc-single_selection.gif
Trying to select a series of single objects with CTRL+click is more difficult. As soon I miss one handle-dot, I lose the entire selection and have to start over. That used to be no problem before.

This is because LFS thinks you are doing a box select with a zero sized box. Maybe this could be fixed by only doing a box select if the box is a few pixels in size, or at least the size of a selection button.

Alternatively a box select could be ignored if it doesn't include any buttons.
Scawen
Developer
R15:

An outline is now drawn around the selected objects
M key can now be used with clipboard objects (select then CTRL+C)
Multiple object rectangle select CTRL+drag with left mouse button

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
Scawen
Developer
Thanks everyone for the positive comments. Those of you who do follow the forum know why it was worth spending a few of hours getting this little update together. Please you've had some fun with it. That's what LFS is all about, in my opinion. Having fun. Smile
Scawen
Developer
Quote from F.C.Barcelona :I'm excited to see that scawen is still working on lfs

ohh wait...

There's so much content that you have never tried. We offer so much more than just Blackwood and 3 cars. But you have never tried it or contributed to our development. I guess you think it's a free game and we can live on nothing.

We're also working on loads of new things and don't need any comments from scroungers who can't be bothered to have a look around to find out what we are working on.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from chucknorris :It was very easy to pick the object that I want to move. Then, I could easily move it or align it with something else and just press 'm'.

Quote from Degats :I have to agree that moving objects - especially if you're not 100% sure you actually want to move it yet - is a lot more complicated.

Would it be helpful if the M key was allowed to work after you have pressed CTRL+C?

I haven't tried it yet but it seems possible. As you know, the CTRL+C is reversible because the editor knows which objects were copied. So it seems that in those cases where you have a tricky move as you described, you would then be able to see the originals and the new position at the same time before pressing M.
Scawen
Developer
Here's a semi-official version of 0.5F
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92157
LX8 GTR semi-official version 0.5F2
Scawen
Developer
Dear Racers,

I am aware there is still a copy of the old 0.5F version of LFS, that was never released but was leaked in 2005, available on the internet and it's not too hard to find.

The only problem: there was no easy way to unlock it.

In fact there are other problems too... the LX8 GTR is way overpowered, underdeveloped and barely driveable! Big grin But I know there are people around who want to drive it so why not let them have a go?

So I had a look in some old backups on floppy discs and DVDs, started up an old computer that has a floppy disc drive and managed to get it compiling and made a few changes to make it work with new new master server and recent versions of Windows.

I don't recommend it at all but if you really want to try it and you have an S2 license, here it is!
https://www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S2_ALPHA_0_5F2.exe (90 MB)

DISCLAIMER:

It's a really old, unsupported version of Live for Speed
It was never ready for public use
The LX8 GTR is really not a good car to drive Ya right
It will not be developed or included in future versions
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Quote from chucknorris :Is there any way to get the old layout editor back? I'm really disappointed with the regress here and, if I may add, I do not understand why something needs to be changed after 15 years, especially when it's something, nobody ever complained about.
I've certainly placed over 100,000 objects with it over the time and the only wish I ever had was a bigger choice of objects.

That seems to me a really pointless comment.

With all the improvements and nothing worse at all, why would you want to revert?

To be be constructive, please tell me what issue you have found, in case there is something I have overlooked.

How I see it, it basically allows everything you could do before, but adds new functions and solves some problems.

Did you read the explanation thread?
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92152
Scawen
Developer
The trouble with allowing both buttons to work is that when a new function is required at a later date, the 'spare' one is no longer available. Or you think it is then discover there are upset people who always used the one that you thought no-one used. Big grin

So that's why I'm aiming for least buttons and maximum similarity with other software.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from bobloblaw :Wishlist and not a bug: In edit mode, Ctrl+right click currently has the same behavior as a normal left click. Would it be possible/simple to add the ability to select a group of objects by drawing a rectangle around them, like many editors?

This is often requested and I'm thinking about a really simple version of this as I know it can be tedious to click several buttons.

So I'm thinking of a rectangle select in screen space (X and Y aligned with the monitor) and you would just pull that rectangle and when you let go it would select the buttons visible within the box.

We are currently limited to 30 objects because that's how many can fit in one packet (and I won't be changing that in this version though I do have thoughts for the future about that). So I suppose it could select the 30 objects whose buttons are nearest to the centre of the rectangle when you let go of the mouse button.

Questions remaining in my mind...

I'm sure we need to use a CTRL or SHIFT key in conjunction with a mouse button to pull the rectangle. For some reason CTRL sounds better to me. I'm not certain whether the box select should use the left or right mouse button. What is it like in similar programs? I see in the Windows interface you can use left or right button to draw a box to select icons. No CTRL key makes a fresh selection, CTRL adds / subtracts from selection but that's not available to us as we can't allow 'no key' box select as all such possibilities are used for camera positioning.

It seems to me that "add to selection" would be a dangerous default and is more complicated. So I'm leaning towards the simplest system, with "fresh box selection" as the only function. If your selection isn't quite right after doing the box select, you can select or deselect individual buttons.

I like to keep it simple at this point because there really is a lot of other work to get back to and this editor stuff has been longer than expected. So, assuming CTRL key plus mouse drag is the way to go, we still have the one question: Left or Right mouse button?
Last edited by Scawen, .
The layout editor changes
Scawen
Developer
For any of you who are interested in editing layouts but haven't been following the test patch thread. There are some quite significant changes to the layout editor which make it more usable.

Here's a description of the new changes and the reasons behind the changes: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92152
Scawen
Developer
Here's a description of the new editor changes and the reasons behind the changes: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92152
The layout editor changes
Scawen
Developer
The layout editor has changed. It is now more powerful and works more like other editors.

It now uses a CUT / COPY / PASTE system using the standard Windows keys CTRL+X/C/V

This is different from the old editor style which was based on a select / duplicate / move type of logic which had some limitations and caused some problems.


The problem:

The problem in the old system was that when you selected some objects, they were selected in two ways simultaneously.
1) Visible 'in hand' where your mouse was pointing, ready to be placed in the world
2) The original objects you had selected were still selected

This caused some confusion. For example, if you had some blue tyres and you wanted to place some red ones, you might click the colour and that would change the object in your hand as well as the one on the ground, previously placed or selected.

There are various other examples such as modification of concrete object heights and rotation of objects that could be confusing or annoying because of the old selection method.


The solution:

The updated editor moves to a different editor logic that should be more familiar because of its similarity with other editors. You can cut, copy and paste.

The real improvement now is that there is a complete separation between the world objects that have been selected, and a selection of objects 'in hand'. Only one of these types of selection is active at any time, so if you make any changes to their colour, dimensions, heading, altitude then it only affects the one active selection.


How to use it:

You create a real world selection, as before, by clicking on object selection buttons. There are two ways to select multiple objects.

1) Hold CTRL and click on object selection buttons
2) Hold CTRL and draw a selection rectangle using the left mouse button

After making your selection you can adjust it in various ways using the on screen buttons or keys.

Maybe you would like to duplicate the selected objects. Press COPY and you will see a live selection in hand. Point to where you would like to place the objects and press PASTE or O to put the new objects there.

Maybe you would like to move your selected objects. There are two ways to do this.

1) Press CUT. The original objects are deleted and you will see them as a live selection in hand located at the mouse cursor. You can now make modifications to the selection as required before pasting or placing it in a new location.
2) Press COPY. You will see a live selection in hand while the original objects remain in the world. Make any changes to the selection then press M to move the original objects to their new position.

You can paste a copied selection in two ways:

1) O key: Place objects and keep a selection in hand to be placed again
2) PASTE: Paste the objects and the new objects will be selected, not leaving a selection in hand

Note: you can switch between the two selection styles by pressing COPY.

1) Real world objects selected -> press COPY -> now you have a selection in hand
2) In hand selection -> press COPY to UN-COPY the selection, i.e. reverts to the world object selection

Note: new PGUP and PGDN keys to adjust height for concrete and other floating objects.


Test patch download: EDIT: This is now in the official version 0.6T
Last edited by Scawen, .
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