The online racing simulator
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Scawen
Developer
Thanks, and everyone is entitled to an opinion. Smile

I just don't want the thread to turn into something that is all about how to fix LFS or lamenting its demise and all this depressing stuff. It's a progress thread and there is a lot of progress going on, and in my opinion the work we are doing is the way to 'fix' LFS.

LFS had a time when it was very popular and then some other sims came along, some people tore most of their hair out when they couldn't use a certain front wheel drive car that has been delayed, and so on. I don't think it's really cause for great regret. Luckily we aren't the sort of people who think life is all about trying to figure out how to have a better income, so we are happy enough to carry on trying to finish this thing.
Scawen
Developer
I can't see any reason to consider Steam at this time. It seems to me a really terrible time to just stop developing, hire an accountant, set up a limited company and start integrating LFS with the Steam system. All this while using the old version of LFS which people will just insult because of the outdated graphics.

Please don't try to start explaining why I should stop development right now and dedicate my life to business structures and Steam integration, because I am not remotely interested in that and might as well jump off a cliff. Instead, I am doing what I like to do, currently that is working on a new lighting system.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from MousemanLV :Should point out more important things than telling how skins might not look as good as you want them online. Pioneer pretty much said it above. It's not that the people who might be against the way things have turned out for LFS, it's just sad to see how things have changed, or not changed since 2009.
:/

I think Rob can point out the low res car skins if he wants to.

I'm nearly not posting what I'm about to say, because I've said it so many times before.

It's kind of pointless to say that our way of working is 'toxic' or whatever else.

I don't claim that all decisions we have made in the past were the right ones. But we are working very hard on updates. You and we would like it if we could produce the results faster but it isn't possible. The only way that could be done is if we had several programmers and artists and a project manager. But we didn't want to run a company or work in a big company, which is precisely the reason that LFS exists at all. We like this way of working even if the results don't come thick and fast.

I realise that some people just can't understand or believe that software takes a long time to develop, and there isn't really any way to explain to them how that could be the case.

There are other products that are the result of large teams and you are obviously free to try them out. If you want to try the new version of LFS then you will have to wait. It's really as simple as that!

I feel almost silly saying this again but I have recently learned that if I don't then the conversation can turn extremely sour and doesn't benefit anyone.

I just want to add that I know most people do understand and are being very supportive, which is really great. Thank you! Smile
Scawen
Developer
Victor has added some auto cleaning on the leagues page.

I've tweeted about the calendar page.

I hope hosters and racers can try to make use of these pages a bit more. I know LFS isn't going to suddenly take off right now but we do hear a bit too often about people want to race but can't find what they are looking for. These pages show quite a lot going on.
Scawen
Developer
Moved the discussion about the leagues section to a new thread:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93504
Scawen
Developer
OK, moved to new thread.
Scawen
Developer
OK, I've tweeted it.

The only thing is, 'leagues' seems to me to sound like something you have to sign up to and commit to a series of races.

But, going by the names only, the page does seem to list events that aren't really leagues as such. Maybe it needs a bit more information so users can see if it's an event you need to sign up to, or a series of races, or a server you can join freely.
Scawen
Developer
Thanks for the thoughts. By the way, I wasn't really trying to think of a way to solve things forever, but maybe a one off tweet and a forum post that is just relevant for a short time from now. But it might not be that easy to get the info together, because even as experienced community members you all know different things. I don't think one person knows all the relevant info to post.

Regarding events, leagues and tweets, I do try to check the LFS twitter account every couple of days, so if there is an event coming that is relevant for the public, you can include @LFSracing in a tweet and hopefully I'll see it and retweet. Specially if it's a nice prepared tweet, maybe with a picture and a link to where people can find more information.
Scawen
Developer
EDIT: This thread is created from posts moved from the "April Progress Report" thread.
We are discussing ways to make sure people know what is happening online so they can find the races they would like.
Part of that discussion is about the leagues section of this site.



Quote from NumberTwo :...
Lfs for me has only one problem. And that is getting new guys in, and getting them to respectable level. Because nowadays, on competitive races, if you are too slow you dont even qualify for a race. Skill level is quite high overall.

I don't know if this will work out or is easy to do, but if someone could make a forum thread which lists the currently active events and popular servers and times when it is likely to find a race on those events / servers, I could do a tweet to point people to that thread. It might get a few people in, from the nearly 1500 followers.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Drifteris :Scawen, could ultrawide (21:9) resolution be fixed for certain cameras? Inside and outside is fine but top down, cinematic and shift+U free cameras are all in 16:9

It's an option:

Options - View - Full width external views
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Xenix74 :...
Scawen once said something like:
"Lfs does not make your life better".
...

Hmm, I wonder what I really said. That doesn't sound right, because LFS is supposed to be a form of entertainment. That *should* be a small part of "making your life better" just as watching a good film or reading a book can do.

Definitely we all should relax, have fun and play around a bit and that is a good thing and this is my intention for LFS.

There is also an educational aspect to it, in the sense that a lot of people have learned more about driving, physics, racing and so on. As it becomes more realistic, the educational aspect improves. On my side with the physics and on Eric's side the structure of race tracks, roads and so on. This is also supposed to be a small part of "making your life better" if you want to put it that way.

Of course, if it becomes an irritation or a frustration, you should move on. We have an email notification system so we can let you know when there is an update.

In no way is LFS supposed to be a thing which people sit around for years waiting for updates and becoming increasingly angry. Anyone who does that is bringing it upon themselves.
Scawen
Developer
Banned petercollins and TexasLTU.

petercollins repeatedly claims I am a liar. TexasLTU says I am a fraud.

These users have both had extensive bans in the past for being very unpleasant and rude around here. We provide a service here, a forum for sensible discussion.

We have been working on a simulator for many years and we are continuing to update it. There are no deadlines, we are putting years and years of work and effort into it as most people around here know (and it is plainly obvious from our recent progress reports).

There is really no reason for these guys to come here and insult us. It's not reasonable behaviour and we don't want that kind of negative person hanging around here. As they have pointed out, there are plenty of other games for them to play.
Scawen
Developer
Thanks for the info. It's always good to hear about LFS working on different VR devices. I'm interested to know how it runs on the Valve Index when that starts shipping - hopefully no fixes will be needed for it.
Scawen
Developer
I guess it would have been quite easy to search for posts by me before launching your 'attack'.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1948686#post1948686
Scawen
Developer
Hi guys, sorry but I don't think we can do a progress report every month now.

For my part I have been continuing with the lighting, and working on getting it to look right with the real time generated skies while preserving the look of the tracks.

I've looked at the albedo levels for various materials and adjusted the brightness to get the lighting right as we gradually move to a more physically based system.

I've been experimenting with a high dynamic range (HDR) render target (as an option). This involves rendering the image to a texture which uses a 16-bit floating point number for each colour channel of a pixel instead of the standard 8-bit gamma corrected integer. This has various advantages for lighting and can produce more realistic images. I've been trying some tone mapping functions that can be applied in the final post-processing stage where the HDR render target is output to 8-bit format for display on the screen.

There's more to do but not too much to talk about at the moment.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from MicroSpecV :I don't even think this Yuri guy is earning anything at all through this.

Well he does ban people, deny their appeal then charge them to be unbanned. So that's one revenue stream.

Also he has been known to get people to install his software that invisibly downloads adverts in the background that the user never sees, to fraudulently receive payments from advertisers.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Czerwony Smok :Scaven, u want LFS support by banning people who buyed S2 because of someone from them sometimes play on LFSPro...?

No, that has never happened.

I did try to explain that it is a very bad idea to play on LFS Pro because you are supporting the services of a thief and liar who abuses his own 'customers' and harms the development of LFS. His name is Yuri, also known as Skinzinho / Negan / SKC. You shouldn't help this criminal.

Quote from MandulAA :/on topic:

Caught another one, on [MRc] Formula BMW, at ~22:35 CEST. Username: trembala. Literally just connected, spammed that line three times and left. Uh-hu

Thanks, banned.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
I believe the moment I would enter the office of an international lawyer, and instruct them to start working on our behalf, it will start costing huge amounts of money with no guarantee of success.

We aren't Valve. We have a tiny income that just about pays the bills. We don't have money to pay the huge fees of expensive professionals.

I'll say again. People are making a mistake if they support LFS Pro. They may cause the end of Live for Speed. The customers can end LFS Pro by turning away from it. We need the support here.

I am pleased to say that we have an increasing number of licenses sold to Brazilian racers so maybe the tide is turning.
Scawen
Developer
Anyone who uses LFS Pro is supporting a criminal, and submitting themselves to being controlled by a criminal.

Negan / Skinzinho / Yuri / SKC is a liar and a thief. Submitting to his service harms the development of Live for Speed, which will come to an end if we can no longer live on the income.

Obviously anyone who goes online to advertise LFS Pro will be banned from our master server.
Scawen
Developer
I tried to describe why things take a long time, for Eric and me. I wouldn't be able to go into much more detail without listing every detail of our personal lives.

Some people do understand and some will not. There is also life outside of LFS, we have families and so on. Things happen, it's not just a constant uninterrupted 50 hours per week on LFS.

But just to clear up one myth: Eric and I do not have any other jobs. I'm not sure why people sometimes get that idea. As you can see, we are working hard on Live for Speed and there has been a lot of progress these last few years. But it's not always plain sailing. There is life outside LFS, and within LFS there is experimentation, research, trying and testing, following unexpected avenues, backtracking, trying again, and so on.

I do say occasionally, if our aim was to make the most money possible, we should have chosen another job or way of working. But that's not the aim here. The aim is to develop something we like, working in the way we like, get paid for it and enjoy life as well. It's a great thing to be able to have some time to spend with the people you love. Some people do miss out on that part of life through working too hard, and I'm really happy that we have avoided that mistake. You don't have a second life to come back and do all the things you forgot to do in your first life. So you need to make sure you have time to do the things you like to do.
Scawen
Developer
I don't suppose it does any harm to let you know where we are with the tracks, as I think you can work it out anyway. The South City and Fern Bay are not yet done. Kyoto has taken longer than expected because Eric is working to a high level of detail, and the track covers a vast area. He wanted to create interesting buildings as part of the job because as an artist he wants to create good looking work.

It's similar on my side, things have taken longer than expected and one thing leads to another, so I end up working on things that were not planned in the first place. Maybe if we had a project manager they could keep us to timescales and limit our work accordingly. But I think it's a good thing that we can experiment by going down unexpected paths of development, although it does take longer, the end result can be more interesting.

I know people may say "if you don't release it quickly it will become irrelevant and obsolete" and so on but I don't really mind about those kind of opinions. We're trying to create a nice game that we are happy with, and I know a lot of people will be happy to have a go when it's ready.
Scawen
Developer
Thanks, now I understand your problem is different as the switch oscillation is not only at the start and end. So I'll revert to 200ms for the maximum in the next test patch.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Pasci :Why the AI can't drive with wind at level 2? At level 1 it is possible since some years. What's the reason that they are not able/allowed to drive with level 2? What's the difference?

That is because there is no code to deal with wind strength. They don't adjust their style to deal with wind. For example if there was a strong tailwind down a straight, they might not brake in time for the corner.

Quote from Racon :I'm using it set to 200ms currently. 100ms is fine usually, but in a frantic situation such as banger racing it still catches me out quite a bit.

I'm not sure what you mean. The code is really intended to solve the problem of real switches oscillating a bit as they turn on or off. But it sounds like you want to have high settings to prevent yourself doing multiple gearchanges by mistake?
Scawen
Developer
Quote from KeiichiRX7 :Any way we can get that debounce option for other controls, like up down left and right? Using the rotary dial on my g29 seems.to always yield 2 presses, milliseconds apart, makes it tricky to fine tune pit settings, or toggle whether I want damage repaired

The gearshift debounce setting now applies to all controller buttons in Test Patch U6:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185
Scawen
Developer
Test Patch U6:

Changes from 0.6U5 to 0.6U6:

Gearshift debounce setting now applies to all controller buttons
Reduced maximum value of gearshift debounce to 100 ms (default 20)
FIX: Memory leak related to threads (most often for skin download)
More translations updated - thank you translators!

Download:

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185
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