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Scawen
Developer
Dear Racers, we have now introduced prices that depend on your country.

Please read about it on the new thread.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/90295-New-Live-for-Speed-License-Price-Bands

Thank you!
Scawen
Developer
Dear Racers, we have now introduced prices that depend on your country.

Please read about it on the new thread.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/90295-New-Live-for-Speed-License-Price-Bands

I will close this thread, as it is now obsolete.

Thank you.
Scawen
Developer
Dear Racers, we have now introduced prices that depend on your country.

Please read about it on the new thread.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/90295-New-Live-for-Speed-License-Price-Bands

I will close this thread, as it is now obsolete.

Thank you!
Scawen
Developer
Dear Racers, we have now introduced prices that depend on your country.

Please read about it on the new thread.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/90295-New-Live-for-Speed-License-Price-Bands

I will close this thread, as it is now obsolete.

Thank you.
New Live for Speed License Price Bands
Scawen
Developer
Dear LFS Racers,

First we would like to wish you a Happy New Year!

Today we have made a change that will be helpful for many LFS racers. Until now, everyone paid the same price for an LFS license. But this sometimes seemed too high in places which are not favoured by the international exchange rates.

We have compared data on average earnings, converted to a common currency, and separated all the countries into three bands. The first band price is the same as before, £12 per license level (e.g. Demo to S1 or S1 to S2). People from countries in the second band now pay £9 per license level and people in countries from the third band pay £6 per license level.

These prices are now visible on our shop pages. The price bands only apply to licences and license upgrades.

LFS gift vouchers can be used to give LFS as a gift or help a friend upgrade. Vouchers can now be bought with any value from £3 to £36, allowing you to buy the exact gift you are looking for, matching the new banded license prices.

We hope this will make our licenses accessible for many more LFS racers!

- LFS Developers
Scawen
Developer
Yes, I agree this thread is really over. There are no new opinions. All valid points have been made and it is descending into people just saying the same thing again.

It is relatively peaceful, so thanks for that.

I think it's really invalid to say "I've played this game for years and it's not worth the money". That is totally inconsistent. I do think it's reasonable that people should be paid for the work they do, even if they are in the entertainment industry.

I'll now close these #THREADS because there is nothing more to say.
Scawen
Developer
Thanks for the info. As the crash is in that NVIDIA dll I can't look into it further at this point. It would be possible if you could give me a dump file. I don't know hot to get one, but I can look at a call stack if I have a dump file. The call stack shows which LFS functions called the D3D functions which eventually led to the crash. It's possible that LFS could be fixed to deal gracefully with whatever bad event has happened in the driver. It may be the driver has crashed. LFS doesn't deal will all cases of such events. On my computer when the graphics driver crashes, LFS usually displays a black screen but continues to run without crashing.

One thing you could try is an older NVIDIA graphics driver. I reverted to driver 364.72 because the later drivers kept crashing any time, even if I was simply using my browser. I don't know if that is possible for you. It was fine for me using Windows 7.
Scawen
Developer
If you can provide a crash address or event log, I can have a look to see if the problem is in the LFS.exe program. Sometimes these days, there are bugs in the drivers or Windows updates, so it's not necessarily LFS's fault. But it may be and that's when crash address / offset / exception code can help.
Scawen
Developer
That will be due to the new shadow shaders.

I think it will work as expected if you use the shaders in the attached zip.
Scawen
Developer
Moved to beginner forum where most of OP's previous comments were posted.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from CozmicDragon :Scawen, Victor, Eric, I'll leave this little tidbit: You are a bunch of incompetent douchebags that want to charge AAA price for a game made in 2002. If you want people to pay for this game, make it worth the money.

Show us the game you've made that is better than LFS, that took you less time to develop than we have taken. Then we'll get the feeling you have some idea what you are talking about. Thanks.
Scawen
Developer
I do want to say one thing, after my previous posts which sounded quite negative. Because in fact I feel positive about Live for Speed!

I do love this job and it is only because of the support of the Live for Speed racers that we have been able to go on so long. It has been developed for a much longer period than most games! We are very lucky to be able to work from home and be able to choose our time of work each day. It's really great to be self employed, being creative and making something that people enjoy. I want this to go on and to get done the things that we have planned, even if it takes a long time!

I don't mind at all that our earnings have decreased a lot from what they used to be, some time after S2 was released. That is only to be expected, without expanding the business. But I absolutely don't think life is all about earning as much money as possible.

For many years I've just accepted that there will always be cracks and it would be a futile war putting too much time into preventing them. The only thing that got me a bit disturbed in recent days was learning that the crack community was so much bigger than our legal one, it was actually pulling legal players away from our servers. LFS isn't much good if there aren't people online and that situation seems like a downward spiral.

So, thank you for your support and kind words. I do think this thread should be closed now. It's the holiday season now and I hope that people will go online, in the legal version and get a bit more racing going on there. There is fun to be had and it's all free if you already have a license!
Scawen
Developer
We are motivated and busy on new things. LFS income does still pay the bills and I have no intention of stopping at this time. But I must admit in the last few days, the thought that all our efforts will also go to people who don't want to contribute in any way, was a little disturbing.
Scawen
Developer
Thanks for the comments.

Quote from jujek :Site is down but his master server is still online

This is sad to hear.

We are at a very bad point, when licensed racers go to race on an illegal server because there is more activity there.

It's hard to know what to do. We could get them all back if we offered LFS as a free game, but then we'd have to go and get another job.

Sad to think that LFS could die purely due to criminal activity. We think it's a pretty good deal, one payment for lifetime usage. But it seems that supporting independent developers is not something that most players want to do. Better just rip us off so we can't survive and only the giant corporations will remain.
Scawen
Developer
On a more positive note, the biggest crack site is now offline. I'm hoping that some people who were using pirated versions of LFS will decide to make their contribution and get online in the proper version.

Please support LFS online racing by getting online a bit. It's too silly to think there are hundreds of people moaning that there aren't enough people online. If you get online, there will be people online!

On the development side, we are working on new things which will be fun to use. It's always going to take time because of the high standards of today. Not worth whingeing about though. Things will take time and that is not going to change.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from FPVaaron :It's a shame really, that major updates now days are otherwise "small fixes" from version 1.12 to version 1.13 in any other barely reputable game.

That is such a ridiculous statement that you have simply made up in your mind and then decided to say it, without comparing it with any actual facts to check what you are saying.

If you want to make a point, you are welcome to do so, positive or negative. But if you want to state such negative viewpoints, you should support it with some kind of evidence. Otherwise you are just spreading the fantasy that exists in your mind.

If you look at the new version announcements over the past few years, you will see major improvements.

Bringing up the Scirocco is quite pathetic really. The one specific announcement in all the years we have been developing Live for Speed, that hasn't yet been released. You think it's sensible to attack us for it, several years later, because just once we believed we could release something, then later discovered the tyre physics weren't ready for it. You have so little to support the negative view you want to spread for your own amusement, that you come up with this worn out old beating stick that has been used against us for so many years and we have issued so many apologies about. All because of one medium powered front wheel drive car, that people have blown up into some kind of Holy Grail of sim racing.
Scawen
Developer
Pereulok has become a big problem in recent times. The trouble is when it got to the point where more people are online on the cracked master server than on the real one. Then LFS suffers and its reputation suffers. It really starts to look like trouble when our earnings are only just paying the bills and the thought of closing down LFS development becomes an actual possibility.

We aren't ready to stop development on Live for Speed and we are working enthusiastically on good new things. It would be a great pity if we were forced to stop development for no reason other than piracy.

Pereulok is currently unavailable and I believe that repeat83 understands that we need to earn a living from this job, or LFS will die. He has considerable technical abilities and I hope he will find a way to put them to good use.

I hope that with Pereulok offline more people will join the official master server. Please go out there and race. I will close this thread as there is nothing more to be said here.
Scawen
Developer
Thanks for the report!

Good to hear it went well. Smile
Scawen
Developer
Unfortunately it's not possible for us to create tracks on request at this time, even for large sums of money!

The thing is, our work for now must be towards adding new content for the S3 license and also improvements and updates to what we have.

In the future, when we have got to a certain point, I hope that LFS can be opened up to allow tracks and cars to be created by other people. It's a really big subject though and not one to get into now.

So the short answer is, you have a good question but we are fully occupied with existing projects and LFS isn't open for other content creators yet.
Scawen
Developer
The company that did the scanning for us, APR Services, are flexible on how they produce the data. Their programmer was able to export the data in a way that suited us.

We asked for our point cloud data in a simple format, millions of points with position (x, y, z) and colour (r, g, b).

The laser scanner doesn't actually get colour itself but high resolution photos are taken from the same location as the scanner and this can be compared with direction to provide a colour value for the 3d points.

The scanner produces much more data nearby due to the nature of the scanning process, so the data needs to be thinned out. Thinning the data is also useful for download speed. I thinned the data further so that it was good for real time use in our editor. The point cloud can be switched on and off in our editor.

In our system there is no automatic transfer from the point cloud to actual game data. It is only a guide. It is accurate enough to ensure that objects are positioned and sized correctly within a few cm and the road surface is correct within a few mm. It allowed us to create all the bumps in the area by ensuring the track surface passes through the points in the point cloud.

So in our case there are no very strict requirements and specifications for the point cloud. We needed to make sure there were a lot of points on all track surfaces and sufficient density to get the scenery objects in the right place and the right size. The scanner was moved to various positions around the track area, and the point clouds were merged later (by APR). The merging was made accurate by placing posts in the ground that could be seen by each scanner.

For our purposes I thinned the data down to 100mm between points. It is less dense where the points were further from the scanner. The colour image can be drawn with 100mm squares, or a special accurate mode can be used where the squares are drawn with 20mm size, to get the road surface correct within a few mm by aiming for the centre of these small squares.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from nacim :I've made my own investigations too, and I think it's related to the latest Windows Insider build.

...

Sorry for wasting your time with this, should have seen that before (LFS is one of the few DX9 game I still play actually).

OK, good to hear it's not an LFS bug. My investigation yesterday was drawing a blank - the crash was in the DirectX code and it seemed to be in a simple call to CreateVertexDeclaration done in a safe way.

Quote from baartlomiej :Removing that line worked for me and it also works after enabling post-processing.

Mysterious! Anyway good to hear it it working now. I won't look into this any more unless someone else gets a similar issue.
Scawen
Developer
Thanks for the dump file. I've tracked it down to a point where it enables a vertex declaration for the post-processing shader.

I don't yet know why that goes wrong. It seems to work fine on my computer, but I think if you remove the "Screen Flags" line in cfg.txt then post-processing will be switched off, so maybe it will work.

Please try that and let me know:

1) Does LFS run now?
2) If so, what happens if you enable post-processing again?
Scawen
Developer
Quote from nacim :Thanks for the update Scawen, but for the first time ever, my LFS install crashes. And I can't find why. I tried removing ReShade and LFS Lazy, no changes.

Thanks, but please can you give some information about this?

1) Any information about when the crash happens. At startup / in game?

2) Does the crash happen every time?

3) A crash address (and exception code) may be very helpful or a call stack if possible.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from PeterN :Don't know if this is new or a coincidence, but the LX4 (at least) has some gaps in its shadow.

Good bug find, this is because the LOD mesh has some holes in it.

I can think of two ways to fix it.
Scawen
Developer
I've been working mainly on the tyre physics.

Eric has been working on tracks.

Sorry but there's not much more to say at this point.

Anyway, here is a new compatible test patch with some small improvements. Most notably the car shadows are no longer cast towards the light. See the attached screenshot in the Test Patch 0.6Q3 thread.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/90208
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG