The online racing simulator
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Scawen
Developer
I do hope the new tyre physics can be released with the new graphics, otherwise I'll have to move a copy of the old physics into the new version. We are long past the point where the new graphical changes could be merged into the old version. Too much has changed.

Copying old physics into the new version is possible but it's not what I want to do.

At the moment I am trying to get the lighting to a reasonable state where it can be left for a while so i can sort out the tyre physics.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from F.C.Barcelona :you're saying that with the new physics we get giant lorries?

No, but what I am saying is that a good tyre physics model should produce a tyre that reacts in a reasonable way, similar to a real world tyre. So it should be able to reasonably simulate a lorry.

Quote from KeiichiRX7 :I did, I'm saying that content that doesn't work right yet is better than none at all. Toss a disclaimer on it. Under construction. Lock it behind a license level that requires that the user sign a disclaimer and own all current licences

This feels like a communication breakdown. You are imagining that the karts would work OK in the current tyre physics, but I'm saying I've tried it and they don't. There are strange effects that produce the wrong outcomes.

Karts are very sensitive to tyre physics, particularly so because of the lack of suspension and lack of differential. The tyres are sometimes just touching / not touching the ground and there's a lot of skidding of lightly loaded tyres, particularly on the unloaded inner rear tyre. It just doesn't work properly with the current public tyre physics.

There is a solution, which would allow us to release karts. It's the new tyre physics model, which I'm working on. Smile
Scawen
Developer
Please read reason 2.
Scawen
Developer
Thanks for the offer. I really want to have karts in LFS when possible, and Eric does too as you can see with the kart tracks at Westhill. He likes to work from reference material when possible so your offer is interesting.

It's absolutely impossible to do it before the new tyre physics is working, for two reasons.

1) We can't add another delay to finishing the new tyre physics and graphics, for obvious reasons.

2) Karts don't work properly with the old tyre physics. I have some test karts in LFS and I use them as a test case for tyre physics. In reality, tyre physics works on a range from karts (or smaller) up to giant lorries, but the old LFS tyre model breaks down a bit when you go to those extremes.

So maybe we can talk again when the time comes. I can't give any estimates about when that might be.

The only sort of deal we can do is to put a car (or kart) in LFS without payments either way. We receive the reference materials / photos / drawings / 3D files / a lot of information about the setup and permission to use a real vehicle (without time limit). The vehicle provider gets some exposure in return, and that's about it.

We can't commit to anything at the moment, but it's an interesting thought.
Scawen
Developer
I think what is nice is the lighting changing while you drive, so every time you come round the track it's a little different, with the shine on the road and the changing shadows.

It could lead to changes in track temperature which might change the way you drive, in a long race.

But the logical conclusion of that is that it can end up in the night, so that's really the only reason I've got into this lengthy experiment.

Also it's always bugged me when people did a 24 hour race and it was daytime the whole time. Big grin
Scawen
Developer
A few fixes and updates in Test Patch U4:

Graphics:

Car shadows now use anisotropic filtering to reduce shimmering

Views:

FIX: Filtered view went wrong with low filter time + replay speedup

Misc:

FIX: Issues with driver names ending with caret character
FIX: Driver names ending with a lead byte could corrupt text
FIX: Replays from old Westhill before 2015 now marked as obsolete


Download:

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185
Scawen
Developer
Here's a full HD 24 hour lighting cycle.
https://www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_Aston_24_WIP_1080.avi (8.1 MB)

EDIT: Here's the same video on youtube: https://youtu.be/VHKQrISFTpI
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
The pit garage lighting is baked in vertex lighting, like the current public version but generated a bit more accurately. One of the tasks on my list is to separate the baked in lights that are always on (pit garages) and the ones that are only on in the night (floodlights / street lights). Also the way the lighting varies at the moment is just made up, but needs to more closely follow physical values.

And there are many other things on my lists too. Smile
Scawen
Developer
Hi, I've done an avi (H.264) of a 24 hour lighting cycle at Aston. I'm a bit new to making videos, but did some code yesterday to output directly from LFS without saving hundreds of screenshots.

It's similar to a GIF I did recently but this avi has much higher quality and smaller file size.

I guess it would be better to upload to youtube, but I'm interested to know if sharing the avi file works at all.

https://www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_Aston_24_WIP.avi (4.2 MB)

EDIT: Here's a 1080p video on youtube: https://youtu.be/VHKQrISFTpI
Last edited by Scawen, .
No March progress report
Scawen
Developer
Dear Racers,

Sorry but we aren't ready for a progress report this month.

Eric has been working on Kyoto and I have been working on the lighting system.

Progress is good and we are really on the case.

My head is quite scrambled from the work so thanks for your patience!

Scawen


EDIT: See below a video of a lighting experiment at Aston.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1947087#post1947087
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Günni92 :Is it planned to add a supersampling option for normal desktop users as well?

Fair question, and I've already made a note about it after nacim mentioned it on another thread.

I'm interested to try it at some point and see how it looks but not really in a hurry to do it right now because I'm really busy trying to get some things finished in the development version. It's the sort of thing that would take a couple of days to think it through and get it working well and not clashing with other things.
Scawen
Developer
[ off topic and random progress report! Big grin ]

The cool thing is how your comment, although you were talking about the 'old' shadows, got me into this anisotropic filtering experiment (that was on one of my lists) for the new shadows. It has resulted in a real improvement. See the before and after comparison in the attached shots. I implemented Andrew Lauritzen's fix for the glitch at cascade boundaries.
Scawen
Developer
OK, thanks. Those old shadows are done by vertex colours so I can't think of any quick fix to improve them. The new system in development uses shadow maps so it'll all be different.
Scawen
Developer
Thanks for the feedback.

Quote from AndyG :One other thought - are your shadows done in the MSAA pass? They seem to be the main culprits of the remaining distant shimmer issues. I know from experience though that this can be a very difficult problem to solve, depending on how your renderer is structured.

Do you mean the car shadows? I'll have a quick go at switching on anisotropic filtering for them. I've been experimenting with that on the new shadow system where there is a similar problem (but worse). Anisotropic filtering helps though I haven't yet dealt with the well known issue that comes up at the seam between two cascades. I can fix it by a brute force method but I'll be having a look at the other two documented solutions.

EDIT: I've tried that on the public version car shadows and it is helpful, in VR and not. So I'll include that. The car shadows will use the user setting for anisotropic filtering. There are no cascades to mess things up.

Quote from MagicFr :Antialiasing x4 or x8 made now visual change for me.

Yes that is hard to see, I managed to see the difference along the top of a light object against a dark background. It got rid of some faint ripples that were there with 4x. But as you say the supersampling was a lot more useful.

EDIT: Attached a screenshot. The top of that wall across the middle of the picture is a good example of the difference between 4xAA and 8xAA.

Quote from nikopdr :Hey, there's a small glitch with the replays and the filtered view: when you speed up replays over 8x or above, the view glitches out and starts spazzing around depending how low the filter time is.

Good find, thanks.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Quote from lucaf :(still wondering why I can't spectate/freeview on triple screen like in other sims)

Options - View - Full width external views

The option is staring you in the face but you can't see it (same with everyone else by the way).
Scawen
Developer
Test Patch U3 with some more VR updates.

Resolution adjustment range now 0.25 to 2.25 (0.5 squared to 1.5 squared)

FIX: Free view FOV was wrong after entering VR in free view
FIX: Names above cars looked wrong in Pimax headsets

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185
Scawen
Developer
Thanks for the feedback on the tree fix. Even though they aren't included in the new LFS, it was worth a quick fix.

As you say, the overhead names have not changed. Please could you test with PP and see if there is any problem with the names in that case. So I'll know if I need to have a look into the names drawn in rotated eye views.

EDIT: Had a quick look in the code and I'm pretty sure they are suffering from a similar thing to the tree issue you noticed. I can reproduce it in a special view mode here. For example they might look a bit odd if you tilt your head left and right. It's something to do with them turning to face the user and it's only getting that value as if the eyes were not rotated. It assumes both eye views have the same direction. So I don't really need another test result at this point. Thanks for the report.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Quote from AndyG :I'm not convinced it's the case here. In 2D mode if I turn VSYNC on (which is 60fps for my screen), it runs perfectly smoothly. Similarly, 300fps with VSYNC off is smooth.

I still think it may be the same issue. It just depends what you call severe. The 100Hz physics displayed at 90Hz issue can be quite bad when you look sideways. A definite problem.

You can see the same effect with 60Hz VSync on a monitor, it just doesn't look as bad as it does in VR. To try it, select a low FOV then drive along beside something big and nearby, e.g. pit garages, looking sideways. You can see the edges seem to be jittering along.

Trouble is it's a major graphics and physics engine redesign to avoid this, there's no quick solution and for sure it's not something I can do in the current public version, I would only do it in the new development version. It's too big a job to code up twice in the two separate diverged code bases.
Scawen
Developer
In that case it should show for "Default driver view :" [in car] selected
and below that it should say "Settings for custom view : (UFR)"

So you can adjust the settings for custom view but that doesn't mean it is the default view.
Scawen
Developer
OK, here's a version in which you can select the "Resolution adjustment" aka PPD / Supersampling.
And you can also select 4x / 8x antialiasing.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185
Scawen
Developer
OK, it should be fixed in this test patch.
You can also select the "Resolution adjustment" aka PPD / Supersampling.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185
Scawen
Developer
OK, here's a version in which you can select the "Resolution adjustment" aka PPD / Supersampling.
And you can also select 4x / 8x antialiasing.
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93185
Test Patch U7: Fixes / VR updates
Scawen
Developer
WARNING: THIS IS A TEST

THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN NEW TYRE PHYSICS OR THE NEW GRAPHICS SYSTEMS

PLEASE TEST BEFORE YOU POST


Hello Racers,

Here is a new test patch: 0.6U7

It is mainly for VR image quality:
- Resolution adjustment (aka supersampling / PPD)
- Select 4x or 8x multisample antialiasing
- Fixes for Pimax headsets

There are also some graphical and force feedback improvements

Updates and fixes are listed below.

0.6U7 is compatible with 0.6U

- You CAN connect online with 0.6U
- You CAN play replays from 0.6U

Please back up or rename your LFS.exe from version U so you can revert to it if necessary.


Changes from 0.6U6 to 0.6U7:

Force Feedback:

New settings are available under Axes / FF in Options - Controls
FF Steps maximum value is now 10000 (the maximum in DirectInput)
FF Rate is now controlled by a user setting (25 / 50 / 100 Hz)

VR:

Names over cars could fade differently in each eye in Pimax headset

Misc:

Gearshift debounce maximum setting restored to 200 ms (default 20)
More translations updated - thank you translators!


Changes from 0.6U5 to 0.6U6:

Gearshift debounce setting now applies to all controller buttons
Reduced maximum value of gearshift debounce to 100 ms (default 20)
FIX: Memory leak related to threads (most often for skin download)


Changes from 0.6U to 0.6U5:

Graphics:

Car shadows now use anisotropic filtering to reduce shimmering

Views:

View filter time maximum value increased to 1 second
FIX: Filtered view went wrong with low filter time + replay speedup

VR:

New "Antialiasing" option to select 4x or 8x multisampling
New "Resolution adjustment" slider (also known as supersampling)
FIX: Head tracking / mirrors wrong if car leaned with horizon lock
FIX: Free view FOV was wrong after entering VR in free view
FIX: Names above cars looked wrong in Pimax headsets
FIX: Some trees looked wrong in Pimax headsets

LAN:

Easier to set up LAN race: local IP address is shown on host screen
You can enter the local network computer name instead of IP address

Misc:

CAR.lfs scripts are reliably run when user car is spawned or reset
FIX: Issues with driver names ending with caret character
FIX: Driver names ending with a lead byte could corrupt text
FIX: Replays from old Westhill before 2015 now marked as obsolete
FIX: Rare manual shift at high speed to 1st/rev during auto shift


INSTALLATION:

A FULL version of LFS 0.6U must already be installed


To install the PATCH using the SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVE:

1) Move or save the patch into your main LFS folder
2) Double click the patch to extract it to that folder
3) When you see "Confirm File Replace" select "Yes to All"
4) Now you can start LFS in the normal way

NOTE: You can see if the patch is correctly installed when you run
the program (LFS.exe). At the bottom of the entry screen: 0.6U7


DOWNLOADS:

IF YOU ALREADY HAVE 0.6U:
PATCH 0.6U TO 0.6U7 (SELF EXTRACTING ARCHIVE)
www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_PATCH_6U_TO_6U7.exe (1.3 MB)

FOR HOSTING ONLY:
DEDICATED HOST 0.6U6 (non-graphical version for hosting only):
www.lfs.net/file_lfs.php?name=LFS_S3_DCON_6U6.zip (1.8 MB)
Last edited by Scawen, .
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