The online racing simulator
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Scawen
Developer
Quote from Yisc[NL :;2081566"]That's a unique number that cannot be changed in any way.

I'm pretty sure that mac address spoofing is normal.

Anyway, to those who talk about device identification, I'm not really about to give up development again to work out ways of analysing which device we are on in great detail. I'm actually trying to get back to development of what the people actually want, but I have been constantly distracted by hackers the whole year.

Quote from Bradracer :As Chuck mentioned a few pages ago, do we know the scale of the issue or are we just playing a game of virtue-signalling, hypothesising, and finger-pointing?

The instant you say "virtue-signalling" you have lost all credibility and I read no further.

It's funny how may people around here are attributing me with all sorts of stuff I haven't said, and aren't reading what I have actually said.

I realise it's 2024, but there must still be a place for replying to what people actually said, instead of making up stuff you pretend they said, and arguing against that? Or is that too old-fashioned now?
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Degats :TC has *never* sold in-game currency (or items) for real money. Various other cruise servers have in the past (maybe still do?), but TC hasn't.

I never said they had.

Try to keep up and please stop suggesting I've said things that I haven't.

I've pointed out that the ability to freely donate money between players enables a real world trade in your currency. In turn that enables ringmasters to rent LFS licenses in contravention to our license agreement, in order to gain TC credits which they sell for real world money, obtained from richer people that don't want to play your game in the spirit that we assume it was meant.

If you can't understand this, the only explanation is that you don't want to understand. If you do understand but think this is fine, then we have a different point of view that cannot be reconciled.

Quote from Degats :We've always been against it on principle, but there's not really a lot we can do about it - any trading of real money for TC money is happening off-server, between individuals.

Boypower states on TC's behalf that officially you are neutral:
Quote :QUOTE: we allow people to advertise these services on our platforms, including our forum

https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/2081198#post2081198

Quote from Degats :I'm not sure where you got the idea that TC is doing it ourselves.

I haven't thought that or suggested it any any point.
Scawen
Developer
Well what you have, by allowing people to buy game credits, is several things.

Off the top of my head:

1) The ability for people to get 'rich' in game without actually doing the work which I believe you intended as the 'game' of TC. Basically they get the reward without actually playing. I guess that wasn't the original plan, but correct me if I'm wrong.

2) Richer people can buy credits so now they can dish them out and look very generous, compared with the poorer people who actually have to work for it. Here you recreate real-world inequality, oddly as a direct mirror to the real world.

3) This system is supporting and unintentionally encouraging the rental server system where rental ringmasters buy licenses which poorer people use to generate money for the ringmaster. It reminds me of some pretty bad things in the real world. Also it is against our license agreement, but you are basically OK with that.

So after all the support I've given to cruise servers and TC, now the result is you are recreating many ugly aspects of capitalism in a game world and supporting a license rental trade in direct contravention of our license agreement.

I read that this real world money purchase of game credits is a problem for many game developers, and it's a problem that is going to grow for you and us. We receive emails about the problems and contravention of the license agreement from people who have bought their license legitimately, so it is now a distraction for us and hinders development.

So yeah, it's not good. It creates bad feeling as you have allowed a fun game to shift towards real world earning instead of staying on the fun side.
Scawen
Developer
It's an ugly thing you have created.

Imagine a game of monopoly, with one change. People can use their real-world currency to buy monopoly money from the other players.

Now who wins?
Scawen
Developer
Quote from tankslacno :Problem when connecting to a servers on 0.7E7

On 0.7E6, I didn't have any problems with this, but on 0.7E7, I cannot join on several hosts, including my both own hosts (Sport Racing Team Finland and Sport Racing Team Demo). This problem doesn't happen on every host though.

I can try to reproduce this by looking list of hosts and see any host which don't have any drivers on track, but have 1 connected user. When trying to connect to a host, which have that kind of situation, LFS just permanently states I'm in "Queue position 1".

This is not related to E6 or E7, all hosts simply get to that state after 49.7 days.

I have a fix but it's not released.
Scawen
Developer
Editor Patch E6:

Much faster "reduce detail" function
Command /rtex can be used to reload textures
Editor unlock no longer affects LFS unlocks
(S3 number of unlocks now matches S1/S2)

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106792
Scawen
Developer
Test Patch E7:

Tightened main model and wheel limits for mod reports
Unlock screen requires "unlock" to keep any changes
(if already unlocked the unlock count is unaffected)
More translation updates. Thank you translators!

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/106967
Scawen
Developer
Quote from DarkShadow32 :Just another thing that may be worth mentioning:

Don't use the same username and same password that you use for your LFS account on any website that requires you to register when it comes to website from LFS (Not talking about TC OR LFS ITSELF

You should not use your LFS password on the TC server or website either.

Thread: LOGIN DETAILS - use on LFS websites only!

Quote from LFS Terms & Conditions

Quote :3.4 You must not give your username, WEB or GAME password to other LFS users.

There aren't exceptions, including pirates LFSPro and Pereulok or legitimate systems like TC.

Thread: Possible password leak from Pereulok
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Vilix :I apologize, I assumed it was understood why it was such an important part of the economy but I'll explain it then.

Thanks for taking the time to give examples to paint a fuller picture.

I suppose most of the things you mention (jobs/repairs/trade of items) could be done using fixed prices and that would provide the fun without the unbridled capitalism that appears to be currently corrupting the server and replicating real world inequality.

I like (or should that be 'liked' in the past tense) that in LFS, after buying a license, everyone is equal. There are reasons why we don't have prices on items you can add. I mean, reasons other than us developers being idiots for not squeezing the community for every penny they are worth, like many other game companies do. I actually like creating an environment where people can race or play free from consideration of real life finances.

So I'm sad to see that money and corruption is creeping into LFS servers and creating incentives to abuse our license system.

Quote from turbofan :As long as people think that money is an elementary particle of the cosmos and things can't exist without it, we are screwed.

Agreed! Big grin
Scawen
Developer
Quote from hsvdin0 :If you still don't get this

Just a quick note, it's you who doesn't get what's going on, but I won't explain again.
Scawen
Developer
Unfortunately, I started this one thread about two separate subjects which are probably not related.

For the password subject, I have now started a new thread: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/107278
Possible password leak from Pereulok (old pirate server)
Scawen
Developer
Dear LFS Racers,

As many of you know, there was once a pirate master server and community based in Russia called "Pereulok".

Despite warnings on our forum and in our license agreement, many LFS racers actually handed over their LFS user name and game password to the owners of Pereulok. Face -> palm

We have recently seen approximately 40 accounts that have been taken over by one or more individuals and in some of those cases, not only the game password was confirmed and used online but also the web password was obtained (maybe it was similar to the game password).

At least two of the owners of the affected accounts that have replied to us, have used Pereulok at some point in the past, so it's a possible source of the leak. It appears that the leaked data is old because the hacker makes several attempts before finding one that works.

If you ever logged in at Pereulok and have not changed your passwords since, please change your passwords immediately. If your password used at Pereulok, or any other pirate site, is in any way similar to any passwords you use on other websites, you should change them all.

It is not our duty to explain to you that you should not use the same password on multiple sites, and particularly not on the websites of pirates or hackers. But this causes some disruption when, after a leak, a user can access multiple accounts. So that's why I have written this alert.

Previously discussed on the Hackers alert thread but that thread covers a different subject as well.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Vilix :Stopping money transfers between players would simply crash the TC economy

So simple, you can't even explain it?

Just like PVL you can only say "of course" or "simply" but you don't give a single example of why it's necessary.

Quote from Vilix :In all honesty, it seems a little unfair to suggest to potentially destroy the entire server economy

Who suggested that? If you are referring to me, you are mistaken. I have repeatedly asked why it is necessary to allow money transfer between players, but have not received an answer yet.

Quote from hsvdin0 :It has nothing to do with rented accounts - in fact

Before commenting, maybe you should read back a few pages, and you will start to understand there is a link to rental accounts.

Repeat: It appears that the rental accounts are a tool for illegal account pirates (called 'owners') who rent out their accounts to gain TC money which they then sell for real money. This is a criminal activity enabled by TC money transfers. That is a fact, not an opinion. Even if you don't like it, it's still a fact. Don't fall into the modern human thing of denying things just because you don't like that they are true.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Quote from 0033549 :I was playing in Pereul*k project, so that could be reason

Thanks for the information. Thumbs up

I don't need more info from you now, but would like to know if any of the other affected people have similar information.
Last edited by Scawen, .
Scawen
Developer
Quote from P V L :The problem is that more than one person uses the same account, not the TC economy.

I think you are not seeing my point (that took me a long time to understand) that the reason someone allows multiple people to use the same account, is to gain TC money. And this only happens, because there is a real world value applied to TC money.

Quote from P V L :And yes, of course it would be a great issue for TC if we could not send any cash between accounts.

Why "of course" ? I really don't know why you have to be able to donate money, but I am interested, which is why I asked. Big grin

Sometimes if a feature does more harm than good, things get better when it is removed. Smile
Scawen
Developer
Thanks. Do you think there would be any real harm to TC if you could not donate money between accounts? As if I understand correctly, that should prevent the purchase of TC money by lazy people who aren't playing in the spirit intended.

Quote from P V L :I see the problem with rented accounts, thats true. But this has nothing to do with the TC economy, to be honest.

Apparently it does, if I understand correctly, because part of the reason for existence of rented accounts is to gain TC money. Rented accounts don't really make much money from the rental charge, but the account owner gains TC money, which they can sell to rich lazy players.

So apparently the TC economy and its crossover to the real world is fueling the rental account phenomenon. Looking
Scawen
Developer
Well then I am almost certain, this trade is against the spirit of TC money, which was about playing, not paying, I believe.

And I suggest the transfer of money between accounts should be stopped, to end this trade. I don't think it is doing LFS or TC any good.
Scawen
Developer
Again, that is not an explanation.

Someone has to pay the money. Who is paying the real world money, and why? That is the question.
Scawen
Developer
Quote from 0033549 :It wasn’t me

Your account is one of nearly 40 accounts known to be temporarily taken by this person. The number was around 20 a few days ago.

We still don't know where the passwords have come from. It looks like old data. They make several attempts, usually failing but then they find one that works. This is why I suggest people should change their passwords if they haven't been changed for a long time.

In several cases the person has logged into the website as well. I guess sometimes the web password is similar to the game password.

Have you, in the past, entered your details into one of the Russian or Brazilian pirate servers, or any other website? Have you installed software for LFS purposes, from a source that you couldn't really trust 100% or anything else?

I don't want to write the list of accounts that have been compromised, but I would like to know where the hacker has got his info.
Scawen
Developer
I wonder if the real world trade in TC money would end if TC admins removed the ability to transfer TC money between accounts?

If that is the case, it might reduce the account renting system, if I understand correctly. But maybe there is a good reason why TC money needs to be transferred between accounts.

I think if I was a TC admin I wouldn't like this real world trade in TC money, but I am full of confusion at this point. Big grin
Scawen
Developer
Thanks.

I am probably being dense but I still don't get why TC money is worth real money. As far as I knew, TC money isn't a real currency, though it is probably more stable than crypto rubbish.

Maybe I could understand if I knew who the buyers are, which type of person hands over their real money to buy TC money?
Scawen
Developer
Please don't send us all the information. We can't just take your info and start banning accounts.

I know you are trying to help but we cannot spend every minute of our lives investigating Turkish LFS racers, poring over the evidence and trying to be judge and jury too. I am a software developer trying to find a bit of time to do some actual development. I am not a underpaid policeman and I'm start to get fed up looking into all this rubbish. Even though you are trying to help, it just takes more of my time, not less.

Quote from Bruhmomento :They sell the TC money for real life money

This is the part I can't understand. Shrug

You can't just say something that makes no sense at all, and expect me to take that as a reason for something.
Scawen
Developer
Well I can't understand Turkish, but the obvious suggestion is to not remove bans for reason "I am illegally renting a license" or "I bought a used, banned license as disallowed by the LFS regulations".

If rented accounts are useless then maybe the trade in them can stop. I am astonished that anyone can profit from renting out LFS licenses. It must be so cheap for the driver, to be worth renting instead of buying.

So the amount of effort involved for the illegal renter (who is basically a software pirate) can't be worth the income received. It's very strange.

Though I heard something about TC cruise money being used to make real money, which I don't even begin to understand. Uhmm
Scawen
Developer
Quote from Rubbel_31 :I think after typing /rtex, the texture of the Indicator Glass and headlight glass of some vehicles is not visible. But it comes back after typing /rtex. I know it can be fixed after writing this command, but I still wanted to report the error.

Although it doesn't seem to be a serious issue, I've tried to see why it goes wrong but I can't make it happen so far. I've tried in single player and multiplayer.

I'm not really worried about this as texture loading is handled differently in the new graphics version but if anyone can explain a simple method to make the FZ dash and headlight textures disappear (maybe after typing /rtex or by some other means) then I would look again.
Scawen
Developer
I don't think it is related to VR support, but there is multi monitor support that goes some way to support a curved screen, in an imperfect way.

I don't know how good the final effect is in reality but you can specify up to 5 "left screens" and up to 5 "right screens". This can represent a cylinder as several planes. I don't know how bad it is at the seams between the planes.

I did /window 1800 600 on my LFS and set 5 left and 5 right screens, the result is attached. You can set the FOV of the centre screen and the angle between screens, and LFS works out the total FOV. If the angle between screens isn't too high then the seams aren't very noticeable.

But the seams are visible and it look pretty heavy to draw the main view using 11 renders. It might be best done using a post processing shader to produce the correct distortion, conceptually similar to what we do in VR.
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