Looks like you're right that a pure Venturi undertray still causes circulation. But I think it's true that a Venturi underfloor will achieve the pressure differential while creating much less upwash than a wing. And less upwash means less vortices. But does this mean the Venturi causes more or less circulation? (I never could figure out those pesky vector integrals)

Quote from Shotglass :

the venturi effect as used in cars should be describeable via the circulation

Hmm, you sure about that? I understood them as two fundamentally different concepts. One relies on creating an upwash of air while the other one creates a sucking effect due to low pressure under the car.

Quote from Lateralus :

You are aware of next year's rule changes, right? Of course they aren't absolutely guaranteed to produce closer racing, but collectively they seem like they'll have that effect. Much less downforce and less disturbed air behind cars, which should make it easier to follow through fast corners, slick tires, KERS and so forth. 2009 should be a great season.

I'm not that optimistic. Creating DF by using the concept of Circulation, as F1 cars and airplanes do, will always create a wake that causes problems for the cars behind. It doesn't matter if the car is low DF or high DF, the following car won't be able to stay close.

The Venturi Effect on the other hand produces no such physically inherent wake.

Currently the only series I know of that uses the Venturi Effect is GP2 (you can tell by the skirts on the bottom of the sidepods).

Now anyone who follows other racing series than F1 will know where the best single seater racing takes place...

Having said that, I do think that F1 isn't that bad ATM, compared for example to F3 or DTM, TC ban has made a big difference in terms of creating opportunities from bad exits.

Quote from Hyperactive :

It works with the skippie. The whole idea is to never counter steer, whenever the rear feels like it steps out too much just steer more into the corner. Maybe just use counter steering on corner exits as final way to prevent totally messing your exit. This techique was one of the biggest gripes I had with GPL and the same basically works in the skippie. I haven't tested it with other cars though and the whole effect is far less pronounced in the skippie than it was in previous papy sims - but it is still there.

It's not about saving the car from icy spin by quickly swinging your wheel to full lock, it's basically all about stubborningly forcing the car to take certain trajectory and not listening what the rear tyres are saying . (not to mention that the whole driving technique is so damn unnatural and unlogical for me to use)

Thx for the info. Since I'm not going to pay any money to give the physics a test drive I've been wondering about whether this age old papy problem has been addressed. The moment I discovered how easy it is to drive GPL cars with this technique I never started it up again.

Massa's T1 move was outrageous! It's strange with him, sometimes looks such a n00b and sometimes a true champ.

Did anyone else think Ron and Heikki made themselves look a bit stupid by blaming Massa for blowing his engine by pushing too hard? Couldn't you apply the same theory to Hamilton's tyre problem?

IMO, unless there's some obvious big mistake, if the car can't take what the driver is giving it, it's either just bad luck or an engineering problem.

Quote from my clipboard :

Accelerate

I've no idea why.

Quote from mythdat :

What position is that? Directly in front of him, blocking the inside line?

Are you saying Massa moved to the left because he wanted to hand Hamilton P2? The reason he moved is because he didn't believe that Hamilton would be able to outbrake him and still make the corner, since he had to start braking on the very right of the track. And because he was scared that if he would brake on the right himself Hamilton might take him around the outside. Hamilton anticipated this and made the move work perfectly.

Of course they decide not to fight: once they are in a position where they couldn't keep him from passing anyway.

Quote from mythdat :

It was as easy as overtaking backmarkers, they didn't defend.

Because he didn't give them a chance to.

Incredible stuff by Hamilton. He gets himself out of a tactical messup by his team, he makes overtaking two race leaders look as easy as taking backmarkers. And look at the difference in Pace between him and Kovalainen!

I call BS. 200 000 will hardly pay the salaries of a decent team. It's just MaXXX hitting out at anyone he can think of.

Quote from Töki (HUN) :

I don't like his childish behavior.... Cutting the track and gainig a position with it.

wtf has leaving the track because of oversteer have to do with being childish? I'm beginning to wonder how many of you even saw the incident. Did they show it from onboard in the world feed? He passed Vettel, turned in, got oversteer, countersteered and left the track. He was already completly past Vettel when he had the OS moment. That's not the same as braking too late, not even trying to make the corner and accelerating along the escape route, overtaking another car on the way.

I'll agree that he and the team should have anticipated the problem and played safe by letting Vettel through but the penalty was still way out of line.

If you have removed the dust from your GPU (can of compressed air works best) and have checked that the GPU fan is still spinning then the GPU is actually broken. Been there.

Quote from arco :

The version of these that I have installed is

Adblock Filterset.G Updater 0.3.1.3
Adblock Plus 0.7.5.5

Ah, I see, so the auto updater isn't getting the newest versions. Which means I'll have to manually update the extensions one by one, or wait until the extension makers have fully updated their stuff.

Edit: up to 10 of 24 supported now.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Its the worst one since Alonso was put back 5 places for holding up Massa in qualifying.

Yeah, forgot about that one.

Quote from zeugnimod :

I think it was a pretty obvious penalty. He got an advantage because of cutting and he just drove on.

Historically there have never been penalties when the driver who leaves the track was in front at the moment he leaves it. Marc Surer is also saying that the Stewards are clueless.

What a disgraceful penalty. Only worse decision I can remember is when Montoya got a dt for getting hit by MS in Malaysia.

Quote from Shotglass :

of course there arent any... but if you put spoiled kids in f1 cars you sure as heck wont end up with a bunch of gentlemen racers

David Coulthard and Nico Rosberg have two of the richest fathers in F1 and yet I would call them decent persons.

Quote from Intrepid :

To get noticed by these intiatives you HAVE to be in EXPENSIVE classes in the first place!!! It's all PR!

That's exactly it. Sponsorship for talent in junior formulas is mostly a myth. There are sponsors but they're not paying for exposure or marketing reasons, people just aren't interested enough in smaller series to make that work. How many people here, on a motorsports based forum, know who the current F3 Euro points leader is? I'd guess less than 5%. So what would be the point of sponsoring half a million € when noone will notice?

The reason sponsors pay is because there are close company/family links or because a guy is so talented that they are speculating on making a profit from his future earnings.

Quote from Shotglass :

mostly because those kind of drivers show time and again that all they are is spoiled rich kids who never had the need to develop any kind of maturity... eg your two examples last race in canada

So name the drivers that got a job at 6 years of age that could pay for their tens of thousands € per season karting. The fact is that nobody who races professionally got there without loads of money from other people. Sometimes it maybe isn't the parents but what does that really change?

Personally I just accept it as a fact of motorsports that a very minuscule percentage of potentially talented people will ever even go one meter in a racing vehicle. Doesn't mean I don't respect the ones competing at the top levels. Although I do feel that the ruling bodies could do a lot more to help young drivers. Just think how many drivers could be funded from karts all the way through to F1 from the 100 million dollars that McLaren were fined.

Last edited by J.B., Sun, 22 Jun 2008 02:16.

Extensions (enabled: 24, disabled: 0):

* Adblock Filterset.G Updater 0.3.1.0
* Adblock Plus 0.7.5.1
* BBCodeXtra 0.2.5.6
* BugMeNot 1.8
* Converter 0.7.0
* Cookie Button 0.8.10
* DictionarySearch 2.0.2
* DownloadHelper 3.0.3
* Enhanced Bookmark Search 0.1.4.04
* EZNav 1.0.6
* Flashblock 1.5.4a
* FlashGot 0.5.99
* Google Images Re-Linker 0.4
* IE View 1.3.3
* Image Zoom 0.3
* InfoLister 0.9f
* Linkification 1.3.3
* Menu Editor 1.2.3.3
* Show Image 0.4.2
* SmoothWheel 0.44.9.20061102
* Super DragAndGo 0.2.6.1
* Tab Mix Plus 0.3.6
* TargetAlert 0.8.9.8
* ViewMyCurrency 0.3895

Quote from samjh :

I've been using FF3 since beta 5, and all the plugins and extensions I use(d) work fine.

You're the second one in this thread to make this claim. As I said, only 5 of my 25 extensions were accepted. Do I need to set a "run not updated extensions anyway" flag somewhere? Or is the auto updater perhaps not finding the newer versions?

Quote from ChiShiFu :

Wait wait, just to confirm... it now seems like he didn't actually buy the license plate?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/68410

Thread fail.

Probably some kind of extension incompatibility.

I just installed it on an old laptop where it doesn't matter if it messes up anything.

-Out of the 25 extensions I use 5 were found to be compatible (after web update)

-the cursor keys no longer work properly for scrolling, they act like pgup/pgdn but not always

-I thought the URL bar was nice at first, until I realized I could neither set it to only search in my bookmarks (and not in history) nor disable it.

I'll try again in about a month.

Quote from master_lfs.5101 :

ye just try to change the isntall path

Are you sure that'll work? Most of the important FF files aren't in the install path but in C:\documents...balabla...

So what do the fanboys say now that always denied FF was a slow system hog? Sounds like a great release but I'm not testing it until there's been some time for the extension makers to make sure their stuff works.

Or can I just install it in parallel to my current FF2 install (without having to jump through hoops!)?