If massa were to be injured though it would be very likely Kobayashi would step in because they don't exactly have anyone else.

I dunno. Fishi would be a good substitute too. Giancarlo FTW

Or Bianchi. Or any of the others that have links with Ferrari.

Fisi wouldn't be that good, he wasn't that good when he replaced massa in 2009, and I can't see them taking Bianchi from Murussia atleast this season.

Which would only leave Has beens(Gene/ De La Rosa) and young drivers that are not ready to step up to this level.

Quote from Mustafur :

Which would only leave Has beens(Gene/ De La Rosa).

Ferrari wouldn't do same mistake two times in a row. But it would be obviously cool to see Kobayashi in Ferrari.

It makes you think though, If Rosberg is this good against Hamilton it makes you Show Schumacher still had plenty of pace in his mid 40s as he often outraced and Outqualified him(allthough you could say Rosberg was still better but not by much despite the points advantage).

ahhh schumi, miss him so much

I kind of agree that reappraising Schumacher's second career deserves merit. But perhaps let's wait until Hamilton is comfortable in the car/team before extrapolating comparisons from the last couple of years (any more that two years doesn't tend to remain relevant in my opinion).

I don't like Hamilton, I don't rate him as a great, and race craft isn't his forte, but there's no denying that he's underperforming at the moment.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I kind of agree that reappraising Schumacher's second career deserves merit. But perhaps let's wait until Hamilton is comfortable in the car/team before extrapolating comparisons from the last couple of years (any more that two years doesn't tend to remain relevant in my opinion).

I don't like Hamilton, I don't rate him as a great, and race craft isn't his forte, but there's no denying that he's underperforming at the moment.

Yet Hamilton has won the title once, won 21 Gran Prix's and podium 51 times. No he isn't meant to be a race car driver at all. By no means.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

Yet Hamilton has won the title once, won 21 Gran Prix's and podium 51 times. No he isn't meant to be a race car driver at all. By no means.

You can't apply race drivers' facts in this situation. Hamilton is in his first year with Mercedes, so we all knew from the start that he wouldn't be as competitive as he would be in a McLaren and start winning races straight away. NEVER expect a former world champion to start winning with a team that has only won 2 races in 3 1/4 seasons.

Ray, please start posting valid opinions instead of bragging about your post count.

Is anyone got any idea what is going on with Mercedes' brakes, or the lack of them?

The car has brilliant traction, even surpassed the RedBull and Lotus in that area, especially where the tricky curbs are. This could lead to believe that lack of aerodynamic downforce might be causing Mercedes to have huge braking distances on big stops. We might also consider that they're running a too soft suspension which could be a factor to why they are cooking tires, though soft suspension is highly unlikely, as the slow corners traction would surely suffer. Or they simply have lousy brake supplier?

It really wonders me. Back in the Brawn days Button used to dive people like a granny would dive you in a shopping center with a cart for Christmas. I haven't really noticed their brakes being the weakest of top teams competition before this year, so were they or were they not? Really makes you wonder why are they braking good 15 meters earlier than others. Of course their engine is super powerful-still though that isn't even half the solution. Surely there must be solution to that, it means a couple of tenths a lap at least.

Quote from Bmxtwins :

Yet Hamilton has won the title once, won 21 Gran Prix's and podium 51 times. No he isn't meant to be a race car driver at all. By no means.

Erm, I didn't say he shouldn't be a race car driver....... Can you read?

Tristan forget that. You're technical man, maybe got some answers to my questions?

I've not noticed their brakes being any worse than anyone elses. I suspect they are braking earlier (if they are) to protect the tyres.

Their issues aren't simply to do with suspension stiffness, or weight distribution, or CoG height or engine weight alone. It's a complex situation involving hundreds or thousands of variables.

The car has good traction, but that seems to chew up the tyres. Perhaps it leaves the front tyres relatively too cold, giving an understeer characteristic (that might appear to enhance traction), causing even more front tyre wear.......

Who knows. They have "an issue", and I don't think it'll be solved or correctly analysed on an internet forum.

Of course it cant be solved in here. It's not even what we're trying to do, it's just to give ourselves a little bit more insight and maybe learn something for ourselves. I highly doubt they're braking any earlier to protect tires, because you mostly use front tires with heavy braking and they're chewing the rear ones. It's really distinctive once you see an onboard and they're really missing a lot there. XRR brakes vs FZR brakes are a little bit like this, because of gearbox and their gearbox is different to some degree, maybe that could be an issue.

How did you notice that they are consistently braking early? 15 metres is a lot in any car let alone an f1 car.

Quote from N I K I :

Of course it cant be solved in here. It's not even what we're trying to do, it's just to give ourselves a little bit more insight and maybe learn something for ourselves. I highly doubt they're braking any earlier to protect tires, because you mostly use front tires with heavy braking and they're chewing the rear ones. It's really distinctive once you see an onboard and they're really missing a lot there. XRR brakes vs FZR brakes are a little bit like this, because of gearbox and their gearbox is different to some degree, maybe that could be an issue.

Making up possibilities doesn't give us any insight. Insight would only come from knowing more, not from guessing more.

Heavy braking transfers load from the rear tyres, which can cause instability on turn in, which can damage the rear tyres. The Red Bull is noted for being able to use corner entry oversteer to its advantage getting the rotation done earlier in the corner.

I can't say I've spotted the early braking. Early would be 1 or 2 meters in F1 terms. 15m is outlap early. They'd be 10 seconds off the pace.

Comparing XRR and FZR in terms of braking isn't fair. They are very different cars. You should compare a yellow FZR to a red FZR. F1 cars are very similiar!! The gearbox casing on the Mercedes is muted to be a two part - i.e. a gearbox with a structural 'shroud' onto which the suspension is mounting. Redesigning the shroud allows alternative pick up points to be used without having the change the actual gearbox. That won't have much bearing on braking early (well, not 15m early).

Quote from sinbad :

How did you notice that they are consistently braking early? 15 metres is a lot in any car let alone an f1 car.

Barcelona mid sector big stop, T9? Monaco's chicane braking. 10 meters at least! Surely it will be visible in Canada hairpin/chicane.

Quick search on YouTube didn't show any onboard videos when they were braking appreciably earlier than anyone else at Monaco into Nouvelle.

And also, Rosberg did say it wasnt just 1 particular end of the car which was struggling with tyre wear after Bahrain or Spain - I can't remember which, so if you are right(although without seeing a comparison between the 2 it would be hard to tell from our seats at home.) then I would imagine the reason Tristan gave is the right 1.

Tristan's reason? The tire saving? Mercedes does run 10C hotter tires then others as per say. Is it possible that F1's DF is so great it boils Mercedes' tires under normal heavy heavy braking... I noticed this in races ever since Malaysia. Very notable from onboards.

Quote from N I K I :

Tristans reason? The tire saving?

Yeah thats what I meant. But if you noticed it, can you show us a video that shows it? I know Hamilton was commenting about that he didnt have confidence in the braking area's after Monaco, but thats not surprising when hes been outqualified 3 races in a row. But also with the way that F1 cars are nowadays dependent on the rear exhaust system, it could be something complex when the car brakes the way the ride height changes as you're de-accelerating - but you would have thought seeing as its the fastest car over 1 lap in Q so far this season that would be something which would be more of a problem for other teams.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Or any of the others that have links with Ferrari.

You mean like Perez was supposed to have had massive links with Ferrari and no chance he was going to McLaren blahblahblah.

It all means jack cos they'll pick the best replacement they can find, doesn't matter if they promised someone first dibs or not.

There's no public link to a full race onboard as far as I know, racingfor.me if you've got an invite can only help you.

So yeah, Vettel/RedBull cries about Pirelli tire after what's about the most abrasive race of the year for tires only to pretty much lap majority of the grid now in Montreal with plenty of race still to go.

Thank God Pirelli is sticking with the tire that was introduced at the start of the year and that rules protect this from changing.

Silverstone is gonna be hell of a lot more interesting when Ferrari fights back.


P.S. This early braking by Merc might have been because of the tire saving after-all. Lift at 120, coast to 80 then brake instead of at 100. I heard Hamilton talking about that somewhere few days ago.