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AIRIO - Advanced LFS Tracker
(2373 posts, started )
Quote from EQ Worry :Best is to direct similar questions and requests into the CG forum, because this is purely configuration matter.

Ok, i thought it's something hardcoded in Airio, i was told later it's server side setting.
Just a suggestion... not sure if it already have been suggested - I don´t want to read the whole thread...

First of all - we don´t use that AIRW PB thing with clean laps etc... just the "normal" LFSW PBs and the included Airio stats. Path check etc. is disabled in our Airio config.

Would it be possible to add a function to automatically delete impossible server PBs that are way faster than the current WR or a near WR time from a guy without any experience??? - perhaps these impossible PMs could be stored in the Airio message system and as soon an admin connects, he has to prove that PBs - else they will be deleted...
Quote from JustForFunRacing :First of all - we don´t use that AIRW PB thing with clean laps etc... just the "normal" LFSW PBs and the included Airio stats. Path check etc. is disabled in our Airio config.

Hmmm, that's a pity. I consider the AIRW good online laps one of the best Airio features. It is basically one-way communication, the good online laps are not used for time checks etc., they can just be displayed. What is the reason to turn off path check and with that most of the AIRW functionality?

Quote from JustForFunRacing :Would it be possible to add a function to automatically delete impossible server PBs that are way faster than the current WR or a near WR time from a guy without any experience??? - perhaps these impossible PMs could be stored in the Airio message system and as soon an admin connects, he has to prove that PBs - else they will be deleted...

I'm afraid this all would require much too effort, whole new principles to add (postpone stats saving, display disputed times, allow to discard or confirm them). I guess we're talking here about demo people/combos. For that I would suggest to define strict time limits for the demo combos/servers. Limits, that would still allow real fast people to pass, but that would kick cheaters immediately. True, it will not be based on experience but applied generally, still it would be a very good protection.
You can invalid lap if there is car contact?
Quote from M.M.L. :You can invalid lap if there is car contact?

Yes, AIRW clean lap is invalid if touch somebody or if other car is too close.
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In my opinion the AIRW clean laps checker is very flawed. 80% of my invalid laps are invalidated while I am on the asphalt, even driving in a straight line where lag can not possibly cause an server-side "crash" from extrapolating the position of my car. And often AIRW is incapable of detecting invalid laps, such as the KY3 chicane where you sometimes can fly over the speed bumps without invalidation.

It's just too unreliable in it's current state.
just looking top lap times (!top) on MaksNet & SERT DEMO 3 , and I'm pressing next button ... on 6th page (101. - 120.) text is mixed :/ (see atachment) that happens every time im looking !top

and btw what is maximum !rt, I have for like week 99.5% since than I completed more than 300 laps without causing any yellow flag, etc. ( I think I seen over 99.5% on other servers) server is AMG GTI Motorsport
Attached images
lfs_00000099.jpg
Quote from Skagen :In my opinion the AIRW clean laps checker is very flawed.

I do not agree. And quite strongly at that. Airio uses what it is possible to use and in what level the server offers/knows it.

If it gives you invalid lap because of path, then you were really seen by the server (for some time) at a place outside the valid race path. The question is whether the used paths are always correct. I adapted many, created new ones, but most for the standard tracks still remain as designed by LFS developers.If you can fly over some bumpers, then 1) you are outside the path for just a short while, and 2) LFS did not report your car as touching the ground.

Now there is a contradiction. On one hand you feel the lap should be invalid even when leaving the path for a short while, on the other there should be some allowances for delays of car position updates. So, I'd say that the detection of clean laps is flawed. But I deeply disagree with a statement that it is very flawed, maybe almost unusable. It is as good as the data that are available are, finding a balance between being too strict and too lenient.

Surely it is different from the HLVC. But it is simply not possible to get that precision. It works differently, it gives different results than HLVC, but it is the same for everybody, as much as possible Due to lags some good/bad luck will always come to play (with new LFS checks this is diminished). But there's nothing I could do about that on server-side.

Quote from DANIEL-CRO :just looking top lap times (!top) ... text is mixed :/ ... what is maximum !rt, I have for like week 99.5% ...

Interesting about that text, I'll try to recreate the condition and see what could be done about it. The safety rating is always instance-specific and it depends on local Airio configuration for the instance or the specific server. With default values the highest rating is 99.50%. But it could be somehow less or slightly more under different Airio configurations.
started drag server with airio, and found some more bugs...

1. I am only car at start grid, execute /ai, than do false start, airio spectate AI driver not me (i think last driver added from your PC)

2. when crashing with my AI, i got message " Car contact with BF1 : AUDI A8 4.2 FSI (daniel-cro) @ 4,9 " that actually my name

3. I'm in XFG, my AI driving BF1... airio stores in "!top xfg" time of my AI with BF1

there is something more, but cant remember right now.

is it possible to turn off false start spectating in airio?
Quote from DANIEL-CRO :started drag server with airio, and found some more bugs...

1. I am only car at start grid, execute /ai, than do false start, airio spectate AI driver not me (i think last driver added from your PC)

2. when crashing with my AI, i got message " Car contact with BF1 : AUDI A8 4.2 FSI (daniel-cro) @ 4,9 " that actually my name

3. I'm in XFG, my AI driving BF1... airio stores in "!top xfg" time of my AI with BF1

there is something more, but cant remember right now.

is it possible to turn off false start spectating in airio?

!sall also not working right.. Only spectate last one

also when type !pl, I see Ai 5 instead of my nickname
Simply put, Airio does not support several cars coming from one connection (that is several AIs or you and some AIs). When you try that, weird things will happen, such as what you describe. I do not plan to change this behavior.

False start spectate in drag races was implemented long time ago to stop wrong times being stored in stats. I'm not sure if there are now other reliable mechanism to prevent this if false stat is allowed.

PS: The bug that was leaving some buttons displayed in !sb (!top) output and elsewhere is corrected in version 2.5.8.
Quote from EQ Worry :If it gives you invalid lap because of path, then you were really seen by the server (for some time) at a place outside the valid race path.

And that is the problem; Airio think you are off the path, yet the client positivily is not. 90% of my laps invalidated due to path, are invalidated while all four wheels are on the asphalt (and have been so for the past 60 seconds). Or to put it in other words, when a lap is invalidated becuase of path, Airio is wrong 9 out of 10 times. How is that not flawed?

PS. Not beeing mean to you
I base this on my own experience. Above 90% (in fact close to 100%) of my lap invalidations are perfectly correct. It seems we have radically different experience then. I wonder if there are more people seeing it your or my way?
Play
good job your stalker ......... hehe
Quote from EQ Worry :Simply put, Airio does not support several cars coming from one connection (that is several AIs or you and some AIs). When you try that, weird things will happen, such as what you describe. I do not plan to change this behavior.

If you are not planing to implement this feature, airio should somehow prevent this happen. Probably there is some packet which have information how many cars can join from one connection, if there is more than one, airio should set it to 1 (/carsguest=1)

Quote from EQ Worry :
False start spectate in drag races was implemented long time ago to stop wrong times being stored in stats. I'm not sure if there are now other reliable mechanism to prevent this if false stat is allowed.

I want option to completly turn off false start spectate, but if someone do false start his time simply shouldnt be stored.

# Always spectate for false start - boolean
# Send to pitlane for false start - boolean
# Could be good for short races or for having race without penalties.
SpecFalseStart=false
PitFalseStart=false

thats my airio settings, but spectate still happens :/


and also one suggestion (see attachment) when someone with noncoloured name type airio command in chat its noncoloured like in connections list, but usualy in chat noncoloured names are white. so i think that it should also be white, its little irritating.
Attached images
airio bug.png
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Quote from DANIEL-CRO :If you are not planing to implement this feature, airio should somehow prevent this happen. Probably there is some packet which have information how many cars can join from one connection, if there is more than one, airio should set it to 1 (/carsguest=1)

Actually, no, there's no such info available. But it can be solved anyway. Airio keeps connection IDs (people) assigned to player IDs (cars), so when it sees a car joining from the same conn ID, it may spectate it. The question is whether this is not too extreme. True, multiple cars from one CID cause weird things, but it causes no real harm... I need to think about it.

Quote from DANIEL-CRO :I want option to completly turn off false start spectate, but if someone do false start his time simply shouldnt be stored.

I do not want to mess with conditions for storing lap times, they're complicated enough. But you can disable false start spectate for drag lines anyway. Search in TCD file for an item that defines drag lines and delete its contents. No false start spectate then, but all drag times will be stored in stats.

Quote from DANIEL-CRO :and also one suggestion (see attachment) when someone with noncoloured name type airio command in chat its noncoloured like in connections list, but usualy in chat noncoloured names are white. so i think that it should also be white, its little irritating.

LFS itself does not have this unified. Sometimes, names with no color show as gray, sometimes they're white. I'm not sure now why I've chosen to keep the original name color when replicating a command. I'll try to watch this more closely.

Quote from cargame.nl :So basically there are four variations;

- Hotlapping, LFS WR style; AIRW WR ... checks: object+cars+path+ground+wall+contact+lag+node
- AIRW BL, hotlapping. Same as above. But if you don't beat the WR then it's a Good Lap where good = clean and fast, within 2% of the current BL ... checks: object+cars+path+ground+wall+contact+lag+node
- AIRW PB; global storage of PersonalBests for custom tracks/cars similar to LFSW ... checks: none
- Server !top time storage ... checks: server admin dependent (cargame.nl = path)

I updated a bit the above quote. As you can see there's quite a lot of checks that make an online hotlap invalid. Online hotlaps are most often invalidated for the following reasons: cars (near you), object (hit), ground, path. This makes me wonder if Skagen's complaints were really about path check, because saying that it fails in 90% of cases is simply unbelievable. Since new LFS patch with ground/wall reporting the path check is set quite loosely and I simply cannot believe it would fail so much. It is rather rare to see invalid lap because of path, in large majority of cases other checks kick in first, such as cars near or ground. So, while being on a decently filled server then for sure 90% of hotlaps will fail because there is always someone near you. But that's not because of path and faulty clean laps check. It is by design and it is correct. If you want to hotlap, find some empty Airio hotlapping server, that gives you all tracks and all cars, such as & GenR HotLapping.
Path check was failing quite a lot yesterday, even while being clear of cars and in the middle of the track. Can *other* cars lagging (while not being near to a hotlapping car) cause someone else's AIRW HL to be invalidated?
Path check is not connected with other cars on track. It would be the near cars check that could make a hotlap invalid. Please turn on path info, and it will always give you the reason for lap invalidation. But no, lagging cars should not cause lap invalidation.
Quote from cargame.nl :*snip*

Yes, I've had the path/hotlap notifications enabled for a year or so, since last time you told me about it.
And that is why I have come to the conclusion that the hotlap validation is not working very well. Unfortunately Airio does not promt the lap status so it is cought in MPRs, otherwise I could post some replays to show you guys what I mean.
Quote from EQ Worry :


I do not want to mess with conditions for storing lap times, they're complicated enough. But you can disable false start spectate for drag lines anyway. Search in TCD file for an item that defines drag lines and delete its contents. No false start spectate then, but all drag times will be stored in stats.

I deleted this drag lines, but spectate still happens :/
I want pit people who do false start, then their times wont be stored
Quote from Skagen :And that is why I have come to the conclusion that the hotlap validation is not working very well.

Sorry, but this is so vague that it actually borders on a political statement. At least we here have loads of such. But we may move forward. I believe this all is happening at CG, where replays are being stored on the server. So, next time a supposedly wrong lap invalidation happens to you please ask Dave to send me the race replay. I will run it through Airio and see what is happening.

Quote from DANIEL-CRO :I deleted this drag lines, but spectate still happens :/ I want pit people who do false start, then their times wont be stored

Aaah, correct, sorry for misinformation. You actually need to leave something as DragLines value, but it can be either a track you do not use (DragLines=BL3) or an inexistent track (DragLines=NONE). Then sending to pits for false start should work.
Link for the latest version of Airio? (Because the site is offline.)

AIRIO - Advanced LFS Tracker
(2373 posts, started )
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