Yep, AWD can drift.

The real distinction comes with FWD. It might fall under the name "drift" taken in the literal sense but it just looks like a wanabe trying to be like the people with cars that CAN drift properly

Quote from teh1337one :

Does anyone know a racing wheel with a clamp, clutch, and a shifter?

If not can you think of any good ones?

G25, only wheel to consider if you want a shifter

Quote from Lateralus :

Who is this General Public and why does he have so much say-so over things like this? What sort of crazy system would promote such a muppet to general in the first place?

I know. He will be first against the wall when I complete my evil plans for world domination <evilLaugh>wahahahahaha</evilLaugh>

Quote from Lateralus :

How incredibly silly, especially considering that it's fully electronic and therefore quite simple to reverse it to behave properly.

Its because for the general public it "makes sense" in that you push up for up a gear. Does not matter that you have to fight gravity each change

In the end it does not matter. Most of the auto boxes they are connected to are so full of slush you would be hard pressed to even know it had changed gear lol

Also remember most autos with an up/down shifter are the WRONG WAY AROUND. They have up and up shift and down as down shift.

So if you are used to the correct way up up for down shift and down for up shift then you do run the risk or over revving.

Quote from Matrixi :

Oh well, according to lfsf you only started posting in 2007 (that's after I got enough of this forums userbase) so you don't know me very well.

ROTF. Exactly what point are you trying to make? This should be funny.

BTW, I have been around and active in the LFS forums since I started LFS back in 2003, when the official forum was hosted on RSC. I was there in the fights when KB steer was gutted out etc if you really want to play that pissing contest

But anyway. What was the point you were trying to make with that quote above?

Last edited by Woz, Mon 25 Feb 2008, 19:04.

Quote from wabbit :

yeah go the FF dragging

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1rqHcYnzE0

Yep, just shows what a complete joke FF drifting is

When you see in car the handbrake is on 90+% of the time and the rears are just locked up most of the time. The RWD leaves him for dust when it leads the twin and blast pasts him when starting behind in the second.

FF just can't hold speed and just looks stupid. As I said earlier Apples and cheese, they do not compare

Quote from EQ Worry :

Thanks for the responses! Sure you are both right, that wheel is better in the end. But wheel also takes a lot of space, puts three more cables to get tangled in, must be fastened to table before you play (as it cannot sit there ready all day long) and basically cannot be moved together with my notebook to different places. Mouse, on the other hand, is small, always ready and easily transferable. That's why I stick to it in the meantime.

I just thought limiting the impact of throttle (left mouse button) and brake (right mouse button) using predefined key (or two) would not mean that much LFS programming effort and it will pay off nicely for all those demo players using mouse as the control device. And there are lots of such players on demo servers, some getting remarkable times. (Much less of us on S2 servers though.) The "quickly mash the button" technique is quite usable on acceleration, but braking is a different matter and I dearly miss there the possibility to save tyres using lower force.

Try playing with button rate and use keyboard for acc/brake. They you can get the speed they ramp up tweaked.

Quote from Matrixi :

Irrelevant. The thread is not about whether or not we can or "can not" drift with the current limitations. The person in the video is using an unrealistic controller to begin with. Looks like mouse/keyboard. If you would bother driving on 900 degrees, you would know it's a pain in the butt to cope with slow steering in big entry angles on 36 degree steering lock.

Some people really are starting to sound like broken records. Always helps me remember why I dislike this joint so much.

I dont think you realise HOW many people here have a G25 or DFP and use 720+degrees of steering lock

If you have trouble using large lock DO NOT pretend it is normal. Some of us know how to drive and use weight shifts as to not have to fight the wheel

Why? The cars represent the model from the year they were included.

Yes models change over time but IRL if you buy an older car it does not magic to the new shape and spec when that is released, it remains the car it always was.

By all means request new cars but why lose older cars for the sake of "progress".

Also it would be mad updating the BF1. Hardly anyone can race it properly online. The new spec would remove TC and then it would be absolute carnage

Quote from lizardfolk :

When the metal surrounding the car's wheel gets pushed in and starts rubbing the wheel creating a lot of smoke and eventually a flat tire.

This is most common on stock car racing

This would be a great addition to the damage model but has come up before.

+1 from me...

1) It would stop the extreme low riding setups with big steering lock. People would have to trade ride height with steering lock or risk the body rubbing the tyres.

2) It would make more people get a DNF after an impact that deformed the bodywork. All the cars you see now still running with a caved in front would be out in no time with flat tyres

Quote from samjh :

By the way, I've just checked out D1 properly, and they do allow FF cars. So if FF drifting is recognised by professional drifters as "drifting", then I don't know why some people still say FF cars "can't drift".

Only the real low level and amature D1 events allow FF. The real pro events are RWD only.

Quote from sun :

dude i'am not giving it up. This is my dream. making my own insim app...

But you are still asking the same old basic questions that show you just don't understand the tools you are working with.

At the moment you still sound like all you have is a hammer and so everything looks like a nail to you

Did you ever step back as people told you to and read through your C# book from COVER to COVER?

-1. When I win a race I want to know I beat the other drivers because of skill, not because I had better parts in my car.

Might be a fun OFFLINE option BUT would slow dev on LFS down EVEN MORE and would be of limited appeal once you had all the parts.

Online all it would do is make the life of an LFS noob even harder because they would need to get all the parts to compete and have a chance. A real catch 22 situation.

NO NO NO NO NO

Quote from timkiller :

Hi, thanks for the responses. Am i right in thinking that i can use the h-shift for one car and the sequential for another without re-assigning the gear up and down each time i change car as the up and down is in sequential is the same thing as first and second in the h-shift.

Rowan

Yep. Just configure everything up and it will use the config that relates to the cars gearbox.

Quote from tristancliffe :

But none of them need it. I can understand ABS because most people are rubbish at driving. But Traction Control? Every human being has it built in. I can see that more than 500hp might catch out the village idiot now and again, but 200hp? What a joke. Unfortunately people now expect the car to save them from their own stupidity, and so driving standards become worse and worse.

+1

When the seatbelt laws came in some tests were done in Holland. They got the test candidates to drive a course with and without seatbelts.

With a seatbelt on, EVERYONE pushed harder and faster, used the brakes later.

All the modern assists they put in road cars are to help people that do not understand that a car loses grip and what happens after it does. Trouble is all these assists make the same people even more of a risk on the road because it makes them feel safter.

Take away ABS and people won't push as hard because they know there is a risk of wheel lockup.

---------

That said, LFS is about driving skill. Why do people want to change it to who has the computer assists configured the best?

Quote from EQ Worry :

I use mouse now for a long time and I cannot adapt to wheel easily for several reasons.

?

Do you not drive IRL. Do you opt to use mouse in your real car?

Quote from samjh :

.....

You can argue semantics until you are blue in the face and if you take some literal definitions at face value then, yes you can call FF drifting.

BUT, and this is the big but.

None of that matters. When you see a FF drift it looks lame and contrived and required huge cheats like extreme setups or constant handbrake use to get close to what can be done in a RWD car.

It is just not the same. Apples and Cheese, can't compare at all.

Show a FF car do a tight controlled figure of eight "drift" just using weight transfer where the car is balanced just using the throttle, no hand brake, and people might take you serious.

FF = skidding
RDW(FR|RR) = drifting.

Quote from shiny_red_cobra :

That sounds more like powersliding.

lol. A powerslide is a drift, just one that does not use much slip angle. Even in a full tail out, tyres on fire drift you STILL control the rotation of the car with your right foot. This is what takes the skill in drifting, keeping the car in balance.

FF just requires lots of handbrake or a car that is setup so far out of shape that there is no grip in the rear end.

Quote from JO53PHS :

Does the LFS TC actually work like real TC... It just seems more like an accelerator limiter... I'm sure TC systems are more complicated than that

The TC that was on my BINI (BM Mini) controlled brakes on a wheel by wheel basis along with throttle input to keep the car in shape. It used the ABS sensors to determine what was going on.

Quote from Lateralus :

Oversteer does not equal drifting. Any car can oversteer; only a RWD car can actually drift because drifting is using the throttle to manipulate the rear of the car while cornering in order to make the car behave in a specific way.

+1 FF "drift" is arse dragging, nothing more. Real drifting is controlling the cars balance and rotation on the throttle.

Quote from Gekkibi :

So it could be an additional option in LFS?

Quote from Nathan_French_14 :

I would have thought that the FXO would have TC though.

Why. People should just learn that if you are heavy on the gas you cook the tyres. This is what car control is all about. It has been decided they don't have TC so that is the way it is.

Quote from viper3two :

dayum.....
well it happens to be when I tried "several cars", I looked at them in the garage, they don't have H shifters. Now flame me lol
Thanks anyway

Quote from Gekkibi :

BUMP!

It is strange that only one road car has traction control. I do understand that it would be rather stupid to include it to GTR-cars, but TC has been more or less available nearly to all cars back from the 80's to present. It is possible that few would actually use it, but still, if it is in RL-car, why shouldn't it be in a LFS-car?

Other (Rather off-topic) is that most 90's cars (And nearly all 2k cars) has cruise control. Yes, I know that pit limiter != cruise control, but for some reason I hear alot from servers that people would like to have it in road cars also. I have no opinion on this one, I can manage without it.

TC is fine on just the FZ5 and the BF1. The UF1, GTi and GT would never have IRL and as the TBO cars are 80s cars niether would they.

The RAC does not have it IRL and I doubt any GTR spec cars are allowed in the reg. So its fine how it is.

In most cars that you can get TC on today it is an option on the higher spec cars, it is even an option on most BMWs.

As for cruise control to use as pit limiter, no. I get the feeling this is people asking for aids to come back now most have been removed.

Quote from D E V I L -Z- :

Woz: If you paid attention to my message i posted earlier "Done in Controlled conditions" the roads were blocked off on both ends the following car was the 3rd person video follower, similar to a D1 Street legal sanctioned event. And btw dont go off topic, keep it to the main point.

But "Done with controlled conditions" means a lot of different things to different people. As you cleared up what you meant I take back some of what I said.

My views on street racers and drifters stands 100% though

BTW. It is NOT off topic at all. The "Street" community is big and it is the face of your sport to most of the public. Thay are what holds back acceptance of your sport. This is why threads like "What's the fascination with drifting?" come from