Driver A for sure. I've overtaken there several times - if the driver being overtaken has some sense, two cars CAN pass there.
A should have left enough room at the apex. B then had to leave room in the next apex.

Its not a matter of whether its a good place to overtake - the problem was the resulting contact. the ONLY place that is bad to overtake is in pit entry/exit - the ONLY place where 2 cars just wont fit.

I've been overtaken (and overtaken) in SO1 infamous chicane, in AS1 fast chicane in the fox (t2 and T3). I've driven two LAPS of South City Long side-by-side with no contact. That includes the hairpin, the weird left-left-right chicane in the middle of the circuit. The only time in those 2 laps I wasn't side-by-side was in the main straight.
If both drivers observer clean driver rules, you can be side-by-side ANYWHERE.


When you are being overtaken, you ARE going to loose time. Be it by defending your position (taking a non-optimal line through corners to negate inside overtaking underbraking), or by leaving room to the other car (taking a non-optimal line).

This guy fails, but THIS guy: http://futuremark.yougamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23914

Fails WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more.

Lol...

That looks like something an AMERICAN would make:
Grab a car that cant corner _AT ALL_ , stick the biggest engine you can find in it, then proclaim it the best car of all time!

So this is my first go at a decent lfs movie. Did I hit the mark? Should I consider a career in fishing instead?


High qual (150megs)
http://files.filefront.com/Lfs ... i/;8839230;/fileinfo.html

Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABJMYRuP3po

I usuall either go very WIDE, on the outside, starting the turn-in later than usual (so Im on the outside of the big apex crashes), or go heavy throught the inside, brake a lot, and do the turn very slowly on the apex, putting the power down early. But in any case, be very very humble and carefull. The choice of going wide or inside is usually the amount of drivers doing the same. If I got anyone in front of me for the inside, I switch to the outside.

The problem with the outside aproach is that usually you get bumped into the grass by ppl exiting the turn that didnt see you/dont care.
My trick?

Do the turn wide, and as soon as you reach the place where the normal racing line hits the edge of the road, open your ears. They have to leave you room on the outside so as soon as you hear an engine sound coming from the inside be ready to turn HARD into the car thats about to hit you. If when he hits you you are turning into him, you dont move much. He will be worse for wear, but at least you didnt eat grass because he neglected to see if he could move onto the outside.


The normal racing line is Outside / Inside / Outside.

T1 racing line is 3 options:
Outside/Outside/Outside -> Clip the outside kerb on entry and exit, stay wide of the dark rubber marks of the turn racing line
Middle/Middle/Middle -> Stay exatcly on the middle of the road at all times, equidistant from boths sides.
Inside/Inside/Inside -> you move along the inside edge of the track and do NOT move outside when the turn is over.

Outside drivers will enter faster and exit faster of the turn, but travel more distance
Middle drivers will be generally the fastests, but will feel like they are in a bumper-car competition
Inside drivers will gain some positions, only to loose them all on turn exit.

Remeber the racing line you chose, and stick to it. For example, If your on the middle do NOT clip the apex or the outside kerb. People WILL be there.

Quote from the_angry_angel :

"free the mallocs" springs to mind Sorry, that's a terribly geeky and sad joke. It does demonstrate the importance of good practise though - make sure you always destroy, or mark as unused, what you no longer need to use. This goes for scripting and memory managed languages as well as non-memory managed programs.

Any good programmer should TATTOO this on their body. Preferably on the hands.

My custom FXR for the portuguese league:

(no skin files as I want this one for myself, besides, the skin clearly states "Skin by the Stig" on the doors, and you wouldnt want to drive around in that, would you?)

Sorry for being an ass, but.. I don't see the point of the Prius.

My dad's 8 year old Citroen Saxo Diesel averages 4.2l/100kms - and this over the last year.

My previous car (Peugeot 206 1.4Hdi) did a whopping 3.9l/100kms - when I was really paying attention (unfortunatly, the way I usually drive, it was more close to 5l/100 - but thats really pushing all the 75hp out of the engine at all times )

why do you think I asked for vendor url's ?

No spanish ppl wanna help?

Quote from UncleBenny :

shouldn't this be in the wheels/controllers forum

Heh.. silly me. :worried:
I never noticed that below "general disc", begginer forum tech support and programmer forms there were... other forums

As one spanish player quite accuretly put it, driving from portugal to spain, buying my wheel there, refuelling my car to the brim (and the 5 20liter jugs Ill bring along) and returning might actually be cheaper than buying one of those wheels in portugal.
Normal retail prices:
Momo: 152.99€
G25: 309€

Cheapest I found (off the main retailstores)
Momo: 125€
G25: 280€ (275€ for a g25 imported from.. spain )


So here's my question: Can any of you spanish people point me to a spanish retailer that has these wheels so I can compare prices? (Like portugals www.fnac.pt, www.worten.pt, www.chip7.pt).
AND (very important here) WHERE near the border can I find someplace selling these. I dont wanna go to madrid just to buy the friggin' wheel...

As editor goes, choose emacs! You can do just about anything with emacs!
provided you spend 28 years learning how to use it, ofc.

XRG = Porsche 944, Mitsubishi Starion.

I love the drivers, they DO install, but the program itself doest not give me any option to separate the axis because its made for the ForceFeedback wheel, and mine is the PRECISION wheel, which has no FF.

I need to seperate the bloody axis...
There is a thread around, but it points to a non-existing link for the old 4.0 drivers.

Anyone got the old oooold 4.0 drivers for this wheel? All the versions I get off the net (from shady driver download pages that try to con me 524095235 times into susbcribing to every spamfest this side of the earth) are not working - not even installing.

Thats cause its in everybodys best interest to have no total noobs racing - one total noob at turn 1 can ruin 16 people's races.

Quote from Blackout :

If it's one of those "instant loans"

No interest rate - gonna borrow it from a friend then repay it

So... I have a sidewinder precision pro. No forcefeedback. PB on blackwood GP with the GTI is high 1:24. (1:24:90-ish) Usually though its the low 1:25s

Me wants a good force feedback wheel. Thing is, having no available cash whatsoever (wife, 2 kids, 1 dog, 2 cats, 1 fish), Im gonna have to take a loan on that, and pay it in around 30€ installments.

My doubt is what to get?
G25 (10 month repay)
Momo (4 moth repay)
Driving Force Pro (Dont know the local price, tbh).

Which is better? Momo or DFP?
Is the g25 jump in price worth it over the momo?

I KNOW it has been asked before.. but all the replys usually ignore the fact that the g25 costs about TWICE the momo.

If you liked it, please fund my G25 (currently racing with a Sidewinder precision pro - no Force feedback).

Send dollahs to paypal account d.barbeiro@sapo.pt







--- Getting me a G25/Momo, one dollar at a time!

Hi noob. Grats on your first (frustration filled, I'm sure) races. Now that you had the good sense of coming here for tips, here are they:

Step 1: Garage:
Carsetup is Vital. The default ones are... well... criminal.
You need GOOD setups. But for the love of all that is holy, do NOT, and I repeat NOT get Team Inferno's "Setupfield".
Get some guy's (Ill add credit later) Easy Driving setups. (Just search the forum for it, Ill link it later).
Linky:Click Me 4 Speed

Why? The setupfield is basically made of very fast setups. For a normal person, that would be enough explanation, but since its for you, Ill explain further: Fast setups are HARD to drive. If you're a noob, you do NOT want a hard to drive car. You want an EASY car.

Basically, you're not fit to get a really fast setup until these three things happen:
1) You start squirming in your seat thinking you could do that last turn a lot faster with a slightly stiffer suspension.

2) You can do 10 laps all within the same second, with no offtrack incursions (excursion, actually).

3) You manage to do a small race without spinning off/crashing into anyone/Eating grass

THEN, you can start using setupfield, and you'll find the cars surprisingly fast and EASY to drive. Before that, you'll spin more often than not.

Step2: Car/server:
"What one shall I choose first.. they all seem so.. .delicious."
--Cookie to whoever nails that quote

No big difference there - just a small warning:
Slow cars -> Easy to learn, really REALLY hard to master. You'll be up and racing, really racing for midfield in notime. BUT you'll not win races for a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.
These slow cars require so much finesse and speed management (making sure you exit fast on all corners, making sure you don't bleed off too much speed by over or understeering, etc) That you WILL get stuck in a rut around 2secs behind the fast racers.

Fast Cars -> Hard to learn, easy to master. These cars have so much more power that you can recover from mistakes much easier. After you've managed to actually DO the turn, that is. If you go 10 kph too fast on a BF1(Formula One)... not much of a problem. Go 10kph too fast on a XRG (Front engine rear drive Mitsubishi starion lookalike).... disaster.

My advice: start in the slow cars, to get a "Feel" for the game, then try a bit of all cars.

Step3: Driving.

Actually driving:
I'm not gonna give you the usual "Slow in, fast out" and "Use the draft, Luke" stuff.
Instead, heres how to LEARN. Like Gentlefoot said, first recon the track. Gentlefoot said he goes around the track in 2nd gear, then starts doing the bends faster and faster. DO THIS.
Watch in-car footage of other drivers, but ONLY watch the racing line at first. Then on their lap 2, concentrate on where they brake/accelerate. Then try to emulate, BUT REMEMBER TO GO SLOWER. Do NOT brake where they do, and accelerate later. When you start not going offtrack, then start doing it gradually more like they do.
One of the reasons to remember WHY you should go slower is that due to lag, the driver you're watching will appear to brake a lot later (Other than the obvious reason you lack the skillzzz to negotiate the bend at that speed).

After your doing some quite regular times (even if they are not that fast at first), try some different lines. pretend you're overtaking someone, do the braking into the turn in the center of the track. To race, you need to know where to brake even if your not in the edge of the track. You'll need to brake to a slower speed to be able to take the corner, so you'll need to brake SOONER. (In a overtaking maneuvre, you'll want to place your car in front of your opponent, keep braking into the turn ,forcing him to brake more, into your speed so he doesn't hit you, and then accelerating with him, as then he will not be going faster than you.)
Try making chicanes like that and you'll figure out fairly fast why you don't often see overtaking on tight chicanes: it is either do it on the correct line, or take off towards Jupiter propelled by kerbs and tirewalls.
Learn where 2 cars dont fit. The infamous chicane(s) in south city are a prime example. Whoever tries to overtake THERE is gonna end up in flames: Either from his car, or from his angry opponents vociferations after you crash him. ( try to not be in a ventrillo/Teamspeak server when you test chicane overtaking, as it can be hazardous to your hearing).

Common noob-ish mistakes:
1)
Its VERY common to brake too late, and also very common to start turning way too late. If your car is going wide(if you dont *just* feel the inside kerb), your going doing it all wrong.
In the beginning brake EARLIER than you'd want. Start doing it at the 100m marker, and if your coming from a long straight, at the 125m marker.
Turning BEFORE you'd want. Do it like this: Imagine you want to completly cut the corner. Really TRY to get all four wheels on the grass on the inside of the track. Youll be amazed that you'll just hit the inside kerb very softly and exit the corner so fast you'll prolly crash in the next one.
Only start braking a tad later and turning in a tad later when you are hitting the inside kerb roughly and flipping the car, or flying off or something. Then you know where to start turning in.
Make flipping your car a sport: Try to flip you car over by hitting the inside kerb on all bends.


2)
Trying to overtake via late braking:
Coming to the corner with a rival, you get on the inside line, hoping to brake later than he does and scoring the pass.
WRONG. At least for now, DONT.
Chances are, he is as big a noob as you are, and you'll both try to brake as late as possible and BOTH will MISS the braking spot, and then the one that manages to overtake is the one that gets off the sandtrap the fastest
Instead, remain behind him, brake Earlier, then get on the throttle sooner than him and exit the turn a full 15kph faster than him. You'll fly past him so fast he'll think your cheating.

OR (more often than not), move to his inside line, just off his mirrors, brake early and watch him go down in a cloud of smoke
as he tries to desperatly defend his position via massive late braking (and ends up in the sand).
--Ironically, modern day Formula One degenerated into this: Drivers "Showing themselves" in the mirrors of the opponent ahead of them, hoping to force them into a mistake.

For a big while (until you can use Setupfield car setups and go really fast), be a Lamb, not a wolf. When you are lapping at the pace of the top 4, then you can be a wolf again. By NOT crashing, you'll land midfield spots from the very first tries, so DON'T crash.


The turn one mess:

Remember the accordion effect. IF the car in first place slows from 200kph to 50kph and there is nowhere to pass (remember south city chicanes?), the last car must nearly STOP to prevent hitting the one in front. Think of Spa-Francorchamps (or whatever hell way its spelled), when the starting line is behind the hairpin. Cars take space, and in turn one you must brake a LOT earlier than usual. Sometimes ridiculously early. Also, remember the turn one pileups and the not crashing rule. Brake a lot earlier (brake as soon as you see the dude thats 10 places in front of you brake), try to not be in front of another noob dude (who will problably try to sodomize you with his car) And watch the fireworks. Carefully tread around the flipped over and spinning cars, and then you can safely begin the race.
Later, MUCH later, you'll be aggressive in turn one, scoring a lot of places, but that is only when you know how to control your car even with people slamming into it.


Step 3.5: Tires Tires Tires:
All that keeps you in contact with the ground is are 4 patches of rubber roughly the size of your hand. So treat your tires right, and listen to them.
A low "roooooohhhhhhhhhh" of a sound is healthy (tires are just scrubbing, not sliding), a loud "screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech" is bad. really bad. Tires are sliding, overheating (or locked wheels) and a overheated tire has very little traction. its WAAAAY worse than a cold tire.
Hopefully though, you'll only notice the difference between cold and hot tires when you are able to start driving the setupfield cars.
The screech sound also means your bleeding off speed, and if you bleed too much, you die. Dont slide, this is not a rally. You should never be sliding.

Dont push as hard as you can on everylap (truer words have never been said - credit to Gentlefoot), just try to be consistent and not go offtrack at first. The time to really push it is later. You'll know when. Good luck!


The "in between" times.
After you've mastered the easy setup cars, you can try to make your own, and then pass on to the setupfield (hopefully modified to your liking).
For a good guide on making setups, check the LFS manual - but the "[url="Basic Driving Guide"]http://en.lfsmanual.net/wiki/Basic_driving_guides[/url] section.
When you start fiddling with all, heres a couple of stuff to remember to tweak your car to perfection:

When braking, all the wheels should *just* lock, and all at the same time.

When cornering, you tires view (the one with the tire temps - F10 IIRC), should have the little gray bars (the amout of weight on each section of the tire) should be FLAT on the outside tires, indicating the tire is completely flat agaist the road, maximizing grip. If the middle has less weight than the edges, put more pressure (or the inverse if it has less weight). The edges are "fixed" via more or less camber.

Your tires should be a strong, healthy green. Red tires means massive loss of traction. If theres a red "blink" it means a section of tire is overheated, but the rest isnt. The result is that whenever that particular spot goes by the ground, you loose say 50% of grip on that tire. Can be hazardous in a turn, quiaff?

Sometimes, the more grippy tires are NOT the best. For example, a good way to gain a couple seconds on the XFG (the Clio, Saxo, Golf look-alike) is to fit HYBRID (rally and road) tires in the back. Why? Cause these tires have a lower optimal temp, so in a 5 lap race youll get them up to temp and maximum grip in 2 laps. With the normal road tires, it could take a loooooooooooong time to get those tires up to temp, resulting in a lot of oversteer. This way, you get a lot of oversteer for half of lap 1, then great handling, and when all the temps are perfect, just a tad of oversteer.
Study the Team inferno setups - see how they balance the car, and you can then do your own cars.

"Use the draft, Luke!"

Last edited by Stigpt, Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:13.

The SLOWER you go, the FASTER you go.
Do NOT try to emulate what people do, do it SOFTER. With time (a week?) You'll be going around 3-4 secs behind the pace of the lead car - enough for the midfield places.

Trick?
To learn a new track, brake at the 125m marker of all tracks, HARD. Brake to 100kph(60mph). Do the turn. If the tires dont complain, next time, do it a tad faster. If you go straight ahead, slow down even more.

Oh - and in case you've never driven anything before, to make the usual fast turn, you only have to rotate the wheel around 90degrees MAXIMUM. More than that, and unless its a hairpin, your inducing a spin on purpose.

You guys seem to forget (or are too young to remember) the DEBUT of the original mini in england.

They brought 3 mini's to a racetrack so the journalists could go around the track with them, to see how they would go in the road.
The journalists were thinking the car would handle (and I'm quoting) "Like a shopping cart with wheels".
instead, the car felt so much FUN they wore all three car's tires down to slicks in one afternoon. At that time they had never seen a car so spinable.

I've driven a real original mini. It is alot faster than you'd think, mainly cause it weights less than your shirt. It is very VERY chuckable into corners, and begins to slide almost immediatly. But since it has so little weight(mass) it doesnt really have that much of inertia, so a little bit of counter-steer and it comes back instantly.

Awesome little car, and in LFS the handling is spot-on. Just put some softer suspension and youll get it.
(the original had incredibly hard suspension - didnt have springs, but some sort of rubber-ish weirdness. You ran over a coin, and it would break your back).
To get the feel of the original mini, just put the Springs to around 95% to hard, the dampers at maximum hardness, and anti-roll bars to zero.
Paralell driving to 100%, zero toein, zero caster, and make 1st gear shorter.
Then you'll have your mini.