GTR hasn't mastered rain in the slightest. To me I see no difference to what GP4 achieved 5/6 years ago. I'd rather rain comes later on in LFS and done properly with more variables in the grip coming down to the track condition before it rained. GTR just seems to go grip = grip - 40

Loads of people want rain and night etc and so do I but I can guarantee that it will rarely get used in the public servers as people wont like the challenge.

I very much doubt it's up to the devs whether they upgrade the BMW, RAC or MRT. I'd have thought that these deals would have been made for that year of car. Can't see any of them giving LFS rights to do as they please with there brand.

Can't see the point in getting the 07 BMW, nothing major has changed this year at all except the one tyre manufacture. The specs of the cars are pretty much the same...

Keiran

Quote from Fordman :

No you can buy "reflective plates" what happens is, when the camara flashes, the plate "reflects " the flash, and the only thing the camara gets a shot of, is its own flash. Want to see the effect, take a picture with a Flash on a camara at some glass

They are so easily identifable on a Sunny day. The reflection is blinding to follow, I reported Mr Poser Porsche for his plate

Flying down tomorrow

There are plenty of leagues on the go, I'm sure many of them would be more than pleased to recieve extra coverage. LFS News would be the perfect place to start. Advertise up and coming leagues or races, maybe even with the help of the community do track guides.. lots could be done if you think outside the square Just because the current content is based on mods etc doesn't mean thats the only content that could be done. I've read the ASS a handful of times and totally stopped after the nK Pro joke of an article which gave me confidence to purchase.

Quote from Lateralus :

That's what would make sense, but remember we're talking about some real fool LFS drivers here. My experience with the FOX on AS Club leads me to the same conclusion as the guy you quoted, which is to say around the outside of T1 is often the way to go. Seems there's always a few guys who charge to the inside without bothering to look, so they tap someone's front end and spin them around. Cars behind then plow into the spun car. Since the turn is so slow though, I usually don't have any problems with cars spinning to the outside.

I have some good replays of me braking ridiculously late (30-40m) before T1 at AS Club, hugging the edge of the track on the outside and passing 10+ cars. Once I went from 22nd to 3rd by the end of the first lap because no one could seem to keep it on the road. And I was intentionally slow for the whole lap in order to be as clean as possible.

That's why carnage begins though, people go to the outside and others the inside. Then they meet in the middle, most of the time it's the guy on the outside who causes the pile up by taking no care in the cars already there. If everyone did the start like you would in real life there would be no space for overtaking on the inside so the only chance of contact would be underbraking, rather than positioning of cars. Any mistake would usually spit the car out onto the outside of the track.

The only time I will take the outside at AS Club is if I'm 2nd and most of the time if 3rd is close to me I'll just drive as close as I can to the 1st place man if he is smart enough to realise to keep to the inside, this way there is no chance of getting another car squeezing through. If your in a grid of good drivers then the outside line will make you lose a hell of a lot of places, hence why I'll always get across to the inside off the grid.

What disappoints me in people online is the lack of race craft they have. They make the overtaking piss easy and before you know it your chasing down the leaders after starting last. I'd say about 80% of the people I've raced in public races just let you drive by. Usually in a full server there is about maybe 3 people who fight a bit harder.

The biggest and best tip anyone can keep in there head is coming into T1 if you are going to brake early, brake gently first to warn following drivers and progressively brake harder. Braking very hard and early is not good practice as half the drivers will still be on the throttle pedal behind you.

Keiran

Quote from ajp71 :

The 'safety' camera vans are even more bloody annoying there is one that always hides out of sight on days/times when there is little traffic around on a stretch of dual carriage way going down hill just entering a 50 where most traffic is strolling along at 80.

I met one of those safety vans in a place that wasn't exactly very safe on my way into work one morning. It was on a fairly bad bit of road with blind corners most of the way so you can't really see what is around the bend. To my surprise I was having to brake very hard to avoid hitting this police safety van as he parked up with half his van still on the road and with cars coming the other direction I couldn't pass.

There is one particular road that I have to take through town that I just hate. It's a dual carriage way with a speed limit that goes from 30mph to 40mph and back to 30mph. The stretch of road before the roundabout must be less than a mile and has 2 speed cameras, one of them being placed where the speed limit changes and another just after the speed limit goes to 40mph. Then after the roundabout there is another one.

9 months driving and no tickets . Although I nearly got caught when I was running late for a race meeting. The police were hiding in a junction behind some trees on a straight stretch of road, luckily for me I caught a tractor just as we reached there and had to slow down. I've never been more happy to get stuck behind a tractor I hate how the police come out in force when there are race meeting on, local hillclimbs are there favourite days.

Keiran

In an MSA karting event you'd most likely if seen by the clerk of the course receive a warning for bumping another driver. I got one for hitting the same driver twice on the exit of a corner even though it was by accident because he had poor speed out of the corners.

I hate it when people spam blue flag get out my way all over the place. No one is obliged to dive off the track or pull over for you. They are only obliged to yield at an appropriate time. If I join a race mid-race I'll usually let the pack past if they happen to catch me while I get up to speed. If they start spamming then I'll hang on and most of the time I can eventually pull away but if not I'll just let them slip up the inside hopefully costing them time to a following driver without directly hampering them. Usually at the end of the race I'll tell the spamming driver I have no obligation to get out of your way.

I never spam blue flag across the screen and I've lost countless races because of back markers but that's just tough luck. I've also won races because of backmarkers so it swings both ways. They get a big BLUE FLAG message on there screen if they are not taking notice of that they aren't going to take notice of the messages.

Keiran

Wouldn't matter how many games have permission to put the car in game as long as they have an agreement with the team they can do it. There is no need to get around it. Sony may have the license to official F1 games but all they really have is the brand. The teams and drivers can put their names to other titles.

A new 3D model and a slightly altered spec sheet isn't going to make a huge change so I'd rather see the time spent on a new type of car not currently simulated by LFS .

Quote from Cue-Ball :

You're the second person to say this and it's simply not true. Incompatible does not necessarily mean "physics changes". For instance, to make it so clients cannot Shift+S on a league server requires an incompatible patch. These types of changes require an incompatible patch but would have absolutely no effect whatsoever on the cars, setups, physics, etc. The only disrupt ion to leagues would be that everyone will need the patch, which they can now get automatically. Or the league could simply stay with the current release and not install the new test patch.

Okay, yes there are these sort of changes. But how does no "Shift + S" make LFS more interesting for people like Stealthy04?

Quote :

Most of the incompatible changes that we have been told are definitely on the way are not physics related at all, such as improved AI, false starts, server settings, etc. Many of them don't require any research, they only require time to complete the work.

We've been told nothing like the above is on the way to my knowledge, except the extra server setting. They are rumours created by the community, I can't remember Scawen telling us we'd be getting a proper start system in the foreseable future.

My post was more aimed at what Stealthy04 was saying that new content more regulary is what would keep him interested in the game. I don't think no Shift+S or no reset would make many people interested.

I can see there been more possibility for releasing small things like that more often which aren't too big of a deal affecting leagues etc. I still think there should be a `major` patch as it certinaly creates hype around LFS. I didn't properly understand LFS until the hype started around the S2 Demo and have been hooked ever since. Had I not heard about it on the Grand Prix Games forum I'd have never looked into it, at that time anyway.

LFS gets a lot of exposure on the major patches all over the place and although you may think it only attracts some people back for a little while and they disappear again, I can bet there are probably quite a few new ones appear on the scene at the same time. Just think how many forums are out there and how many members LFS there are... It all adds up to making more people aware of LFS.

Quote from Stealthy04 :

Not true at all, i've lost interest in LFS ALOT over the past 6 months due to the fact theres been no new official content.

Back when i first started there used to be updates every month or so, and i used to play the game constantly, since the updates havn't come, or have come very, very slowly i've lost a huge amount of interest in the game.

Little and often is the way to go IMO!

Me for example, I followed the test patches right through and when Patch V came out there was no rush to go get it. Now when patch U was released I had the mobile reminder set as I was at school and when I received the message I couldn't wait to get home to try it. How many people were waiting in anticipation for Patch V? Patch U created a huge fuss. How big of an article is LFS going to get on any of the news websites out there because there has been a slight improvement?

The problem with patches too often is it will cause problems for leagues, especially if things change that could cause problems for any of the programs used to run the league. Not to mention the drivers who have been developing setups all week long. I don't see any reason not to give compatible changes more often with the autopatch system but incompatible ones will most likely cause problems for someone out there. You may make some happy releasing incompatible changes every few weeks but you'll probably upset a lot of leagues that run all over the world.

Even if Scawen released things as they were done I still don't see us getting incompatible changes every few weeks. As has been mentioned by Scawen himself a lot of the physics changes take a lot of time just researching.

Another thing is we couldn't be the testers for incompatible patches like we can with compatible. They would have to be tested as releasing a buggy version into the public domain would cause huge issues online. Ever seen the problems rFactor faces everytime they release a beta patch? They don't do compatible patches so the community divides to those who patch to the beta and those who don't.

We should just be thankful that we get so many patches that we are having this debate. Personally I can't understand how you need patches to keep your interest in the game. If you need that then I'd be questioning whether you are actually interested in the game full stop? I still enjoy LFS as much as the day I first booted it up. IMO you can't `finish` a racing game, there is always someone faster than you in a car/track. I've still not even thought of or driven most of the combos in LFS and just that one time of trying something odd you find another great challenge.

Keiran

Last edited by keiran, Fri 5 Jan 2007, 22:27.

The build up to incompatible patches creates quite a lot of hype and gains peoples interest again, you'd lose this instantly releasing a bit here and there.

As much as I'd love to get things as there done, personally I prefer the current system. There is usually some form of surprise or reason to look up LFS.net.

Keiran

I've tried it out but never completed a lap... the slightest touch of a wall bends or even knocks your wheel off :/. Now in real life I've seen plenty of F1 cars scuff the walls harder than I was and get away with it...

Graphics wise it's pretty poor, considering it's from GP4 which is about 4 years old. No attempt made to make better textures or anything, certinaly not of the quailty of nK Pros original tracks.

If you have no unlocks left send an e-mail explaining the problem to the developers and you might get an extra one before the month is up - http://www.liveforspeed.net/?page=mailus

Stops people handing out there account information and sharing the account. Even though one user can be online at once it doesn't stop the other user/s from playing offline which would breach most softwares license agreements.

Just copy + paste LFS into a new folder, no need to unlock it again from my experience.

Keiran

Quote from Jimmy c :

if your happy racing online with the standard tracks & cars then thats you personal choice......

Here is where you are wrong...

It would fragment the community totally and kill pick up races. Look at rFactor and compare the online activity to LFS. Track and car mods will never work in an online game unless there is a system in place to automate the process. As I said I don't want to get home after college or work to have some fun on LFS and spend 30/45mins finding + downloading + instaling mods just so I can play other people online.

Everytime a new car and track is released the majority of people will jump ships to use that and force others to get it so they can actually race with everyone else. Then theres the huge amount of people who own LFS that don't look up the forum who will not have a clue whats `wrong` when they can't join hosts anymore without missmatches.

Keiran

No, what it would do though is cause absolute chaos online and destroy the biggest selling point LFS has, online pick up races. I don't want to get in after work at 10pm and find I've got to download Silverstone V1.04 as I've only got V0.65 and then I need to find this RenaultF1 2006 V0.67.... before I know it it's time to go to bed without a single race.

There are a very small proportion of people who want these `tools` and a lot of them seem to have this idea that they'll just whack down the track as if it was scaletrix and not need 3D modeling knowledge.

Keiran

Quote from Chris758 :

You could edit the layouts with Paint.

eh?! illepall

You can't use the layout editor unless you are the host.

No one has taken you up on your offer in the whole 39mins?! Good god whats this world coming to...

The problem I see R2P has is LFS has already quite a lot of major leagues running at this time. It's a sort of been there and done that type thing for the LFS community. We already have so much choice and variety.

LFS has the ESL Germany which is broadcasted on TV if I remember corectly and has real prizes. The STCC, which has a fully commentated broadcast for every round. The MoE which can be tracked live, the OWRL, the list is endless of very well orgainsed leagues available.

For me it's hard to see as a racer what you can offer me that I can't already find for free.

Most tracks down there seem to work in a total different manner to what I'm used to up here. The tracks up here are just clubs run by the members where the time constraints are set up by the council because of stupid people who build houses near a track and complain... They don't hire karts out every day etc, they aren't a business just a non-profit club.

Basically you pay your membership fee, get a key and go practice for free whenever you want within the time constraints. Obviously there is restrictions on what classes can run together so there is a system run to make sure everyone gets on for the same amount of time.

Clutched karts will sound very quiet when you lock the rears even if the engine is still running. Even prokarts it can sound as if the engine/s have cut out when locking the rears, I guess it's just your brain tricking you. As it's a technique used often to set the kart up for the corner you can often hear the note of the engine change quite dramatically even as a spectator.

Rotax Max which will have a centrifugal clutch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWpdNIU9ZVk

Although you can hear it a lot clearer in the TKM which has no clutch
http://www.karting1.co.uk/braking-karting.htm

I'd still be surprised to hear that Buckmore hire out 2 stroke karts to Joe public. Maybe there was some form of racing series going on when your friend was there and that series were renting out Club100s as a taster?

Keiran

Last edited by keiran, Thu 28 Dec 2006, 13:16.

Quote from Gentlefoot :

OK, I'll be sure to go round there tonight and call him a liar. And if you've learnt anything from playing LFS you'll know that a vehicles ability to power oversteer does not come about through power as much as setup.

And anyway, you should check your facts. These are two stroke Karts!!

I've never heard of a place that hires out 2 stroke karts without a MSA racing license and this is usually done by people who run businesses selling karts, not clubs or corporate hire racing. It is also usually at a premenium, £100 for 4 races about 6mins in length if I remember correctly. Nor are there many places that do this, because most 2 strokes require rebuilds every 10 hours and haven't near the same reliability as a 4 stroke. Also the marshals would do there backs in bump starting the things... the list is endless as to why places don't hire out clutchless 2 stroke karts and especially to someone who could freeze and drive flat out at the claimed 80mph into a wall. It's bad enough in 200cc 4 stroke hondas when someone freezes up and keeps the foot planted straight into a tire wall, and it happened a hell of a lot at my local clubs open day.

I've checked Buckmore's website and they only advertise 4 stroke karts, thunderkarts and cadets for kids.

Up this way I've never heard of a 2 stroke 200cc kart with no clutch... closest I've heard of is a 210 which is a gearbox kart. I'd say 50mph is probably the absolute quickest at the end of a fairly long straight you'll get in a hire kart without having a MSA competition license.

I'd love to come down for some karting but it's just too far to travel for such a small event. Although if there is another LFS Enduro kart meeting I hope to make that, now I have some money coming in it should be easier to afford

Keiran

Last edited by keiran, Thu 28 Dec 2006, 11:35.

Credits mean nothing in LFS these days. The only way to get extra cars is to go here https://www.liveforspeed.net/?page=shop with your money card*.

Keiran

*or the various other forms of payment that is accepted :P

Thanks for the tips guys, had a look into a few things but still need to think it through properly on how I'm going to work it .

From what I can remember of arrays I don't know if my knowledge is going to be sufficient to use them effectively. I can only remember the very basics of basically making a list of items in the one variable. So I can't see how I could tie a list of laps to the list of drivers effectively if you get what I mean :S.

Wasn't sure whether I should have posted it in the programming section as it technically wasn't a LFS programming specific problem, just my lack of knowledge on VB6 (is there a manual like the PHP one?, that PHP manual makes it so much easier) Thanks to your OkSocket the LFS part is taken care of, I think I don't understand much of anything in there but you certainly made it easy to fish out the information

Keiran