Pit Spotter was a nice aid to fill this gap, a radio message from your pit crew as to the location of vehicles around you. Not really possible on road courses but I could over look that. That combined with the radio from LFS Companion makes a very nice imersive way to feed the driver info with out having to clutter up the display.
I don't like to use an FOV higher then 65 degrees, my monitor is only 17" and is about 24" from my face. At 65 degrees its still far too high to allow correct FOV in game based on distance and size, but its close enough to now messs up my corner entries, too much. I can not see the side mirror, I can not see the real rear view mirror on most cars and so use the virtual mirror on all the tin tops.
I don't like to use an FOV higher then 65 degrees, my monitor is only 17" and is about 24" from my face. At 65 degrees its still far too high to allow correct FOV in game based on distance and size, but its close enough to now messs up my corner entries, too much. I can not see the side mirror, I can not see the real rear view mirror on most cars and so use the virtual mirror on all the tin tops.
Or since the majority of LFS is its online line componant you use the normal crack and cheat preventions for offline and every time you go online it validates your licence and your file integrity before allowing you to play online.
The awnser is not in the clutch, but in the way the transmissions work. Right now they can be slammed through gears without having to revmatch or allowing the syncros to match gear speeds. How fast the clutch engages and disengages is irelivent for the most part on either a button or auto clutch.
I want back to nKPro the other day to give it another go after hearing that work was once again happeningon it. The transmission and clutch physics in nKPro are alot better and would make LFS better as well as solve the cheats. The downside is it is by no means easy to drive, and would put a much larger learning curve on the comunity here then there is now.
In nKPro you have to revmatch the gears in cars that do not have a sequential transmission and auto-cut built in. Its hard to explain, but it will deny a shift and grind gears if you get the timing wrong. Button clutching is faster then auto clutch, a manual clutch would be even better because of the finer control an axis gives over a button with adjustable disengage and engage timing.
In nKPro it feels right, it feels hardcore, but it will alienate people that do not use a wheel. So is it right for LFS, I do not know. Maybe maybe not, in the end to make LFS as popular as possible I think to add this level of realism in woudl mean LFS needs to have two levels of realism. One that works for eveyone and is not overly complex, and one that is as real as it can be for the hardcore crowd, but that might fracture the comunity.
I want back to nKPro the other day to give it another go after hearing that work was once again happeningon it. The transmission and clutch physics in nKPro are alot better and would make LFS better as well as solve the cheats. The downside is it is by no means easy to drive, and would put a much larger learning curve on the comunity here then there is now.
In nKPro you have to revmatch the gears in cars that do not have a sequential transmission and auto-cut built in. Its hard to explain, but it will deny a shift and grind gears if you get the timing wrong. Button clutching is faster then auto clutch, a manual clutch would be even better because of the finer control an axis gives over a button with adjustable disengage and engage timing.
In nKPro it feels right, it feels hardcore, but it will alienate people that do not use a wheel. So is it right for LFS, I do not know. Maybe maybe not, in the end to make LFS as popular as possible I think to add this level of realism in woudl mean LFS needs to have two levels of realism. One that works for eveyone and is not overly complex, and one that is as real as it can be for the hardcore crowd, but that might fracture the comunity.
I do not have a clutch peddel, but I also agree, any driving aid should be slower then not having to use one.
I am sure the car is out of square to some degree. The more I crawl around it to more it looks like it may be been in a wreck. The oridinal owner had set it up for the track/autocross so I am sure it need to be re-adjusted. The car still has loads of negitive camber and a bit of front toe out and rear toe in. If I ever sell my bike it is getting an overhaul. Last time it was on the lift at the autoshop I was looking at the rear toe adjustments on the lower arm and they are not alligned left to right. After the water pump is replaced (Leaking) an allignment is next on the list.
Last edited by Gimpster, .
It think tire loading plays a big part as well. I never really noticed this until I gotmy miata, which has a lot of negitive camber and some toe out on the front. Under acceleration the car will pull tot he left as the torque from the motor loads more weight on the right tire and it does the oppisite under engine braking. In LFS when you are cornering at 100% nearly all the load is transfered to the outside tires. Since LFS seems to place to place grip as a multiple or percent based on loading nearly all the grip is also on the oursie tire. If the diff is more open you wodul spin your inside tire, and thus lose power and speed. As a result it seems to work to cancle out the understeer effect that should be there. This is only compounded by the tendancy of the FWD cars uncany ability to roll under hard cornering.
Looking at it from a physics standpoint its simple. Under braking all the weight is on the front wheels and they are locked togeather, so you get even engine and wheel braking on the front tires. Under accleration out of a corner most of the weight is on the outside tires and if you like curbs then all the weight may be on the outside tire. Since the wheels are locked togeather you loose no power when you lift the inside tire on a curb hopping corner. The only time you would get understeer is when you have both front tires on the tarmak and are trying to turn.
I like this idea as well, but it would work best in conjuction to a much larger limit on connected spectators.
As it was explained to me, its all a matter of mass, material strength, and ballance. The better all of things are then higher an engine can rev.
I think the only hard rule is that a cone on its side is a pointer cone, it is telling you where to go next.
Since most GT cars are based on Real production cars, it all depends on the car. I know that when the McLaren was being used in the GT1 class here I say a video showing the driver's footwork, and he was deffinatly heel-toe. He also had the stock 6-speed transmission, not a sequential.
Well its all relitive. There are plenty of good roads in the states. Mt Rainer, Mt St Helens, Spokan River Canyon, etc and thats just a few of the areas with in an hour or so from my house. We have good cars but not great cars, I love my Miata. Fuel may be cheap but is going up fast, when i started driving i remember gas being under a $1 a gallon, it just dropped back under $3 a gallon, granted that is inexpensive compaired to places like most of europe its still dam expensive compaired to the middle east. No to mention I have a 120 mile round trip comute on a daily basis, which is probaly a mite bit longer then yours. This past summer when it hit nearly $3.50 a gallon I was burning 5 gallons a day. So of the $107 I made in a day i was spending $17.5 on fuel. So the first hour and a half ever day was just paying for the fuel to get to work and back. Its all relitive.
You can model my Miata, I can take any photos or mesurments you need.
While the sky is nice I like the styling of the Pontiac Solstice a bit more. Same car though.
I disagree with WRX on this point. IMHO You have control over only yourself. Given that it is your responcibility to not hit the cars infront of you and to react accordingly to the unfolding events in front of you. You chose a safe line and slowed, when the car in front pulled on to your line you backed off even more to avoid him as you should. The guy following you failed to avoid you necause he did not leave himself enough room to react to the changing situation. The guy infront of you avoided the incident, you slowed to avoid him and the guy behind you caused the second wreck.
Its the same story at T1 all the time as well and is just a lack of respect and patience.
Its sad, very sad, but there is a reason that drag strips are wall lined tarmak.
What makes a race for me is having a close battle with another racer who respects me enough to back off when they should and pass when they have the right oppertunity and vice versa. Unfortunaly as LFS has become more popular the number of racers that act this way are becoming a smaller and smaller group when compaired to the whole.
To the dork I met this afternoon, I would just like to say that trying to out brake me on the outside of a corner when you have achieved no overlap at the braking point was a stipid move. I moved out to setup for the corner antisipating you would back off and pass in a better place. You had the speed, you would have passed, it was just a matter of time. Pressing there was a poor choice, being fast is not all there is to being a good racer.
Sorry had to get that off my chest, and did not want to start a new thread.
To the dork I met this afternoon, I would just like to say that trying to out brake me on the outside of a corner when you have achieved no overlap at the braking point was a stipid move. I moved out to setup for the corner antisipating you would back off and pass in a better place. You had the speed, you would have passed, it was just a matter of time. Pressing there was a poor choice, being fast is not all there is to being a good racer.
Sorry had to get that off my chest, and did not want to start a new thread.
Its a great start and proves its possible. Only tried the FZR and from in cockpit, it sounds good but is not there yet. The gear whine is perfict not too annoying, its nice.
And to add to this, most racing classes put a restriction on Power, Weight and tire sizes to ensure a close and competitive class.
I still think putting the three on the same size tires and adjusting the weights or power slightly will go a long way to ballancing the class.
Removing 50lbs from the GTT and 100lbs from the RB4 has proven to make the three much closer in performance when drivin by the AI in my tests. So I think that a little power or weight tweaking in addition to a uniform tire size and shape would yeald very good results.
I performed my weight/performance tests with differing fuel loads between either car and the GTT to arrive at the 50lbs figure. With the AI driving and all havng the same ammount of training in their respective cars the average time difference dropped from about 1 sec per minute to .1 - .2 sec per minute on a variaty of tracks.
Lets look at the facts.
FXO:
Lightest Weight
Widest Width, Lowest Profile Tires
Best Power/Weight Ratio
GTT:
Meduim Weight
Medium Width, Medium Profile Tires
Average Power/Weight Ratio
RB4:
Heaviest Weight
Medium Width, Medium Profile Tires
Worst Power/Weight Ratio
So the lightest car has the best power/weight ratio and the most rubber. The other two are more competitive, but are heavier, have lower power/weight ratio and less rubber to put the power down. Its no wonder the FXO just runs away.
The differece is too small to use a passenger as a ballancing tool, and too large to use fuel. So a change will need to be made in the core game to ballance this class. I also agree that we should not hamstring the FXO to rein it in, just boost the performance envelop of the other cars to allow then to keep pace. Right now the FXO just has all the advantages and no disadvantages other then tire abuse but with smooth driving that is not an issue. Its easy to drive, its fast, light and has the rubber to carry more speed through corners. As it is now it will out accelerate, out corner and out brake the others hands down.
Removing 50lbs from the GTT and 100lbs from the RB4 has proven to make the three much closer in performance when drivin by the AI in my tests. So I think that a little power or weight tweaking in addition to a uniform tire size and shape would yeald very good results.
I performed my weight/performance tests with differing fuel loads between either car and the GTT to arrive at the 50lbs figure. With the AI driving and all havng the same ammount of training in their respective cars the average time difference dropped from about 1 sec per minute to .1 - .2 sec per minute on a variaty of tracks.
Lets look at the facts.
FXO:
Lightest Weight
Widest Width, Lowest Profile Tires
Best Power/Weight Ratio
GTT:
Meduim Weight
Medium Width, Medium Profile Tires
Average Power/Weight Ratio
RB4:
Heaviest Weight
Medium Width, Medium Profile Tires
Worst Power/Weight Ratio
So the lightest car has the best power/weight ratio and the most rubber. The other two are more competitive, but are heavier, have lower power/weight ratio and less rubber to put the power down. Its no wonder the FXO just runs away.
The differece is too small to use a passenger as a ballancing tool, and too large to use fuel. So a change will need to be made in the core game to ballance this class. I also agree that we should not hamstring the FXO to rein it in, just boost the performance envelop of the other cars to allow then to keep pace. Right now the FXO just has all the advantages and no disadvantages other then tire abuse but with smooth driving that is not an issue. Its easy to drive, its fast, light and has the rubber to carry more speed through corners. As it is now it will out accelerate, out corner and out brake the others hands down.
Last edited by Gimpster, .
God that brings back memories. I still remember the day I downloded the 0.1 version of the simulation at work on to my relitivly slow laptop. The first unsteady slide in to the hairpin at BLackwood in the XF GTi felt so close to the way ever little FWD car I have ever owned handeled I was instantly hooked and have been a LFS fanatic as my friends put it ever since. Very few, ok only one other sim, has felt as good or better since that time, but it has its own shortcomings.
The only thing that has tempored my fanaticsm of LFS has been nKPro and getting an R-spec miata. Now the shortcomings of LFS are starting to appear as I have a more performance oriented car in reality and have driven another sim that is also close to reality, though excells in different areas then LFS.
I prefer servers that are running 10 or more laps for several reasons. One, there is more time to make up for small mistakes. Two, there is more time the the other racers to make mistakes. The quality of racing also seems to be higher when the race is longer, there seem to be less people willing to try some crazy stunt to gain a position.
You know harmonics are there in real life too, just the other day I noticed this when driving my car. There was even a rythimic base pulsing in my exhaust/intake note that suprised me. A very low slow rythmic pulsing. Almost hypnotic.
Then I have to say:
Kegetys, we need your magic, Please.
Last edited by Gimpster, .
So the question remains was this done in real time or was it done in Post-Preduction? If was was done in real time then it coudl very well be a comunity mod project begging to be done. Becky added in backfires and a pit radio, I do not see why this coudl not also be accomplished.
To be honest it sounds like the nKPro sound system but with more work applied to the final sound. Deffinatly an improvment over the current state.
How diffacult woudl it be to to read engine RPM and Throtle position to generate a sound like the one in the video and then feed it back inplace of the original to the sound system?
To be honest it sounds like the nKPro sound system but with more work applied to the final sound. Deffinatly an improvment over the current state.
How diffacult woudl it be to to read engine RPM and Throtle position to generate a sound like the one in the video and then feed it back inplace of the original to the sound system?
Its true that for less experanced drives simulations like LFS can and often do provide them with a false sence of security in thinking they know more then they really do. I do feel that LFS is not as bad as the more commonly played racing games by new drives which have drasticly less realistic physics.
Even LFS is now replacement for real seat time. I can use LFS as a tool for improving my driving only because I have nearly 20 years of real driving experance. So for me, yes it did change the way I drive. It helped me learn to react to situations in am approate way which I had never encountered in real life previously. Like others have also said, my time in LFS allows me to pickup things faster in real life as wel that are new but similar to things I have done in LFS.
When I finaly bought a car worth taking to a track, I took my new to me miata to an autocross school. This was the first sporty car I have owned and the first time I have been on a track other then a gokart track. My first run was sedate, the second run the instructor showed me what the car could do, the thrid run I was hanging the ass out around the cormers, and by the 6th run I felt in complete control of the car.
Without the time I have spent in LFS I very much dought I would have become so comfortable in so short a time with that car. So LFS has changed the way I drive, but not in a negitive way, I am not a lead foot, I know when its approate and not approate to drive in a more aggressive mannor, and I only take away from LFS what is applicable to the real world.
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