If anyone has used LFStweak you would know that this is represented by the "time to rev" setting.
Lightening componantes in the drive system and engine do not affect the HP or Torque of the engine. What that do is allow less loss of power and torque in the the drive system to a small degree. The most noticable change is how fast the engine can rev up and down. Light=Faster rev times. Light+Stonger also means you can run up to higher reves before crap starts to break.
This kind of tuning is not needed in a pure race sim, by pure I mean one designed to present the players with a level platform from which to compete. Now there is a sim in development where this is a major part of the total package. Its basicly building to be a tool box for building, testing and racing and less a race simulator like LFS. Go look in to Drivers Republic if that is somthing you are interested in.
For pure racing I will choose LFS. For testing mods to my real car and for practicing on real world tracks I will turn to DR once it is in a more finished state.
Lightening componantes in the drive system and engine do not affect the HP or Torque of the engine. What that do is allow less loss of power and torque in the the drive system to a small degree. The most noticable change is how fast the engine can rev up and down. Light=Faster rev times. Light+Stonger also means you can run up to higher reves before crap starts to break.
This kind of tuning is not needed in a pure race sim, by pure I mean one designed to present the players with a level platform from which to compete. Now there is a sim in development where this is a major part of the total package. Its basicly building to be a tool box for building, testing and racing and less a race simulator like LFS. Go look in to Drivers Republic if that is somthing you are interested in.
For pure racing I will choose LFS. For testing mods to my real car and for practicing on real world tracks I will turn to DR once it is in a more finished state.
I really really wanted to flame the OP here but I don't have the deep set resentment it woudl take to do so.
The primary focus of LFS is to present the users with racing simulation. As such there are limitations on the performance levels of the cars just like in most of the orginised racing events around the world. LFS does not simulate ilegal street racing where people are unrestricted in what can be done to their vehicles.
There is no point in allowing people to alter the performce levels of the cars in LFS as once the best combination of parts was established we would all be running the same car anyways.
If you truly need to modify you car NFS Carbon or the real world may be a better suited outlet for your needs.
The primary focus of LFS is to present the users with racing simulation. As such there are limitations on the performance levels of the cars just like in most of the orginised racing events around the world. LFS does not simulate ilegal street racing where people are unrestricted in what can be done to their vehicles.
There is no point in allowing people to alter the performce levels of the cars in LFS as once the best combination of parts was established we would all be running the same car anyways.
If you truly need to modify you car NFS Carbon or the real world may be a better suited outlet for your needs.
Since this thread has been completely derailed from its original idea I am going to drag it back on topic.
I will agree with the OP that with the level of realism LFS has attained and is likely to attain in the future having real Tracks & Cars or the ability to build them and place them in to LFS could elevate LFS from its current small nitch market of Sim racers and thrust it in to the light of the real racing comunity.
With the right content or the ablity to add content this sim could become a very real and effectice suplimental training tool for racing teams, racing schools and driving schools. This sim over any other has comtributed to my understanding of vehicle dynamics and car control. Its has proven to be a very valuable tool for me personaly.
Its definatly somthing the Devs should consider. The MRT and RAC are both small steps in to this idea and have proved to be a sucessfull venture. I do not see why more could not follow in the future. The DP1 looks to be a nice logical next step. After that maybe the comunity needs to start looking at and contacting other small vehicle manufactures and local tracks. Opening the lines of comunication is the first step.
nKPro is already heading down this road. SimBin has already made some good inroads but is currently locked to a poor base sim to build on. There are others to and if LFS ignores this new potential market it may never reatch its full potential.
Cleen, Tight and Consistent. I will ocasionaly hand the arse end out to block and inside pass. Sorry but that just hit a cord with me when I saw it in Initial-D. Supprisingly effective too.
I do not see why LFS would look wrong on a curved display? So long as the FOV was lateral with a fixed verticle FOV it woudl be fine? Is the problem that the FOV when adjusted is affecting both the verticle and lateral axises of the view?
'89-'93 Miata Open Diff (Optional VLSD)
'94-'96 Miata Open Diff (Optional Torsen LSD)
Mustange GT Torsen LSD
Torsens are more common in street cars then Clutch Pack, Viscus I don't see too much and wear out fast.
Personaly I could care less if it has a wing, the handeling of the car is not a problem for me as its more fun to drive with a little slip angle and the RE design makes that oh so easy. The car does feel like a tank, and I honestly don'y like the styling all that much, the nose hangs out too far infront of the front wheel and the thing just looks far too long for its given wheelbase.
As for wings on cars that serve a single puppose to extand the vehicles performance limit beyond its original designed limitations. Many forms of racing have come to rely on them though. On the average persormance street car they serve no usefull purpose as JTbo has eluded to. But since style is objective and often placed higher in the list then pure performance they are used to oversome some performance limitations imposed by styling choices.
As for wings on cars that serve a single puppose to extand the vehicles performance limit beyond its original designed limitations. Many forms of racing have come to rely on them though. On the average persormance street car they serve no usefull purpose as JTbo has eluded to. But since style is objective and often placed higher in the list then pure performance they are used to oversome some performance limitations imposed by styling choices.
Do you know anything about areodynamics? A car is a wing, the path over the car is longer then the path under the car. If enough air is allowed under the car it will have the same lifting propperties as a poorly designed aircraft wing. The reason we use lower valances and airdams is to limit the air under the car and thus create a low pressure zone to overcome the lifting force the shaps of the car has.
The other primary issues is that most cars, the FZ included are areodynamicly backwards. The rain drop is a perfect aerodynamic shape, its the same shape a a symetrical wing. Nof if you try to fly a plane with the wing profile backwards it will want to flip over. Many sporty cars if the traction is overcome will also want to swap ends at high speed. This happened some years ago when someone tried to set a world land speed record in a GM Trans-am. It swapped ends and took off in to the air. Had is had more down force on the rear of the car it would have not prevented the car from findng the more effiecnt aerodynamic profile.
If you think cars do not need wings when traveling at higher speed you are kidding yourself. The Porsche has an additional issue just like the FZ. Since its a Rear engine RWD much of the weight is in the back. What happens when you try to shoot an arrow backwords, or throw a weighted stick light side first. It swaps ends. Learn some physics and aerodynamics before to make yourself look stupid again.
You also have Bremerton Motorsports Park in WA. Both BMP and PR are ramping up to undergo complete renovations if they get approval and funding. PIR in Portland is the only one with reasnable lapping day costs.
To the OP and any other Demo players out there that may have asked themselves and others this question, the answer is very very simple.
LFS is two things. Its a physics/race simulation and its a content package of cars and tracks. The demo gives you all the physics and race simulation for FREE. The only thing you pay for when you buy a licence is the content packages.
Now since the Content Packages are the only thing you accualy have to pay for does it not make sence that they do not add any new content to the demo? Does it not make sence that there is not yet a track and vehicle editor for either demo or licenced users? If the only thing we pay for is the content why on earth would they give that away for free?
If it was up to me I would personaly change the demo. It would have a single track/config and it would have two cars, (One street, One Race with Aero). I would then limit the demo to a race length to 3 laps only and disable the other features including pitting, the F9-F12 screens, replays, etc. Give potential customers a taste of everything the sim has to offer and nothing more, just the taste.
LFS is two things. Its a physics/race simulation and its a content package of cars and tracks. The demo gives you all the physics and race simulation for FREE. The only thing you pay for when you buy a licence is the content packages.
Now since the Content Packages are the only thing you accualy have to pay for does it not make sence that they do not add any new content to the demo? Does it not make sence that there is not yet a track and vehicle editor for either demo or licenced users? If the only thing we pay for is the content why on earth would they give that away for free?
If it was up to me I would personaly change the demo. It would have a single track/config and it would have two cars, (One street, One Race with Aero). I would then limit the demo to a race length to 3 laps only and disable the other features including pitting, the F9-F12 screens, replays, etc. Give potential customers a taste of everything the sim has to offer and nothing more, just the taste.
What it really comes down to is budget. That will be the limiting factor and will influance other decisions. The next thing is access to machine shop and a qualified machinest. If you don't have that then you need to adapt existing parts instead of building custom parts. If you are going to be adapting exiasing parts to a new purpose then the choice of parts will determin the size of the vehicle.
Then the decision has to be made to build the car to conform to some existing class of racing, some LFS class, or be somthing in its own class. I know of an interesting suspension design but it does not exist in a full scale car and would have to be scaled up, machined from scratch and modified a bit to work but it allows for maximun adjustability.
Then the decision has to be made to build the car to conform to some existing class of racing, some LFS class, or be somthing in its own class. I know of an interesting suspension design but it does not exist in a full scale car and would have to be scaled up, machined from scratch and modified a bit to work but it allows for maximun adjustability.
Well on a project like this there is no reason to re-invent the wheel. The hardest part is getting the geometry right and the adjustability. I would suggest you look at existing design to fine a pre-designed geometry solution. One that comes to mind is that of RC cars. They have very adjustable and well engineered designs and most are not present in the real world but could be easily adapted.
Can I change my answer to the DP1?
I could always drive down for a day and drag along the computer. I am only a few hours away in Tacoma, WA. Would love to take a look at this car, meet its creator and show him what LFS is like.
DPcars, if you are interested shoot me a PM.
DPcars, if you are interested shoot me a PM.
They are all challenging in their own way. Though I don't see any of them as overly diffacult.
S2 will be called a Beta once all of the features for this version are included. Then once the bugs are delt with and the version is stable it will be called S2 Final and they will start the process all over again for S3.
Very nice find. Will come in very handy.
Dam H, Well said.
There are a few little things that some times bring me out of the WSD but for the most part is far easier to get in to that mode in LFS then in almost any other SIM.
There are a few little things that some times bring me out of the WSD but for the most part is far easier to get in to that mode in LFS then in almost any other SIM.
I don't think you would find a race track with insurance that would allow you to run any sort of high performance lapping or particapate in orginised amature racing on a tire like that. My point being that while the flex and grip may be modeled correctly in LFS, (The devs have said the grip is too high) I would like to see better tires modeled. Something more closely releated to what woudl accualy be used. Even at an autocross where the speed only get to about 60mph, that would be a dangerous tire to run. I would not be comfortable either driving that car or working the track with that car on the course.
There is more to consider then just size and shape. The construction of the tire and its compount also play a large factor in its level of grip and its ability to hold its shape. Right now road tires don't feel like they are the right combinatin of those paramiters. They are a soft compound on a narrow tire with poor lateral flex resistance. Two tires of the same size and compound can have very different handeling charistics depending on their construction. Scawen does not have a performance car as far as I know and probaly has tires on par with how the Road Normal feel. They scare me though.
Last edited by Gimpster, .
Off Topic:
The geomitry is a little different on the strut. The camber change is based on a triangle where the wishbone is based on a box or trapazoid. The net effect is that a stut has a more linier camber change as opposted to a wishbones more curved camber change profile. You also tend to get more bump-steer on a strut design (dynamic toe changes).
We need a car like a built sonthing like a miata, they are just so dam fun to drive.
The geomitry is a little different on the strut. The camber change is based on a triangle where the wishbone is based on a box or trapazoid. The net effect is that a stut has a more linier camber change as opposted to a wishbones more curved camber change profile. You also tend to get more bump-steer on a strut design (dynamic toe changes).
We need a car like a built sonthing like a miata, they are just so dam fun to drive.
Isn't that the damed truth. I use to think some of the the other Sims were good, then I found this little gem, since then the only other title I can say is on or above par with LFS is RBR for its off Tarmak stuff, RBR has Tarmak issues.
I do think that some other titles do have a few features then feel better then the same features in LFS. The most notable is nKPro. They way the Clutch and Gearbox's are modeled feels much closer to my real car. When I mis a shift in nK I cringe just like I do IRL. I also like the way I can feel the road through the steering wheel in nK, there is a texture to it and its that small tactile and audible feedback that makes those features stand out.
Those are the two major areas I think where LFS is feeling old. The way the tires and suspension are modeled in LFS I feel is up to the task of running on the raw polygons. I think its time they up the mesh dencety a little and turn off the vertex smoothing for the road surface in LFS physics. I am tired of driving on a buttery smooth road.
My only other complaint is the lack of a 50/50 Front engine RWD in the same relitieve power and weight class as the XFR. That is the only other car I am waiting to see in LFS.
Trail Braking is a situational skill thats partly based on the car, its setup, and the corners geometry in addition to what preceeds and follows the corner. Its not over complex though.
The basic is simple. Since we can all agree then smoothness with the controles is always better then quick movments it should also be known that your tires and suspension can load more G's when that are applied slowly then if they are loaded fast. Trail Braking allows you to brake a little later and contune to brake as you turn in for the corner. Since you are smoothly adding steering angle you can also smoothly reduce braking force while adding steering angle.
As others have also said you can do the same with the exit and the throttle as you reduce steerng angle. I was very good at this before S2 in the GTT on Blackwood T1. For some reason now I can't seem to trail brake as well or am scared to. I think I posted a more detailed write up on this in the new users forum.
The basic is simple. Since we can all agree then smoothness with the controles is always better then quick movments it should also be known that your tires and suspension can load more G's when that are applied slowly then if they are loaded fast. Trail Braking allows you to brake a little later and contune to brake as you turn in for the corner. Since you are smoothly adding steering angle you can also smoothly reduce braking force while adding steering angle.
As others have also said you can do the same with the exit and the throttle as you reduce steerng angle. I was very good at this before S2 in the GTT on Blackwood T1. For some reason now I can't seem to trail brake as well or am scared to. I think I posted a more detailed write up on this in the new users forum.
I wish I could afford more then to autocross. The track days here are expensive. The local track has a requirment of their advanced training day first. $500+ then the first HPLD is 250+ instructor for the first time 200+, then after that its about 250 a session for a half day and 400 for a full day. Couple that with having to do an oil change before and after, brakes and maybe a dedicated set of tires for the cause and if you need to an alighment a track day is pushing upwords of $750 for people in this area.
Hell it only costs me $15 to autocross, but its not as much fun and my car is ment for the track damit.
The tires I have on my car right now are Yoko 195/50R15 all the way around. These have a max pressure rating of 36. These will roll over to scrub the sidewalls if I dro the pressure to 30psi. These are rated for 150 MPH. I would consider these to be equivlent to the Road Normal. At 35psi they will retain a full contact patch on the tarmak even when pushed past their grip limit. There is no wear on on the sidewalls.
The tires I want to get are Advan 205/45/15 and have a max pressure rating of 50psi. These will have a sidewall about the same higth as the one I have now, but the sidewalls are designed to resist rollover more. These are what I consider Road Super. Race compounds in a DOT legal street tire with tread. This will probaly also be able to be run down to 35psi with out deforming.
When I drive in LFS the one thing I feel about the current street tires is they feel like 135mph rated 60-65 series buget all season radials. They don't feel right until you get the pressure way up there but then they do not ever get warm. Its like the compound of the tire is mismatched to the design.
Edit:In case you need a point of refference.
My car is a 1994 Mazda Miata 1.8L with 140BHP and 100FT LBS of torque. The car weighs 2300lbs with the roll bar, is lowered with sport suspension and shocks, upgraded swaybars, about 2 degrees of negitive camber and has a weight distibution of 50/50. Its much like the XR GT but a little lighter and a little less power. The handeling though is completely different for some reason. I would be more then willing to take the time to take mesurments and do some testing if the devs want an additional refference model to verify their physics on.
Last edited by Gimpster, .
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG