Sam, stop to look for a loophole so you can once again blame the FIA for McLaren's and Hamilton's wrongdoing - you make yourself look like a fool...

Quote from DeadWolfBones :

What I don't get is that they could have just kept 3rd instead of having Lewis slow to let Trulli by. It's not exactly a unknown rule that you can pass someone who goes off-track under SC. Certainly less controversial than trying to cover it up by "neglecting to mention" that they slowed to let him by.

And why not send someone to race control to clear things up on the spot if you're unsure? It's not like a F1-team can't spare one man for a moment...

Quote from dungbeetle :

Well. I must admit that these responses are pretty much what I'd expected, given the circumstances.

Fair enough.

But I am of the opinion that the punishment for this 'crime' would most likely have been a slap on the wrist, (i.e. a driver/team fine) and a demotion back to fourth place, had this not been a Hamilton+McLaren incident.

I'm afraid history has made me a little bit cynical in these situations.

Well, we wouldn't know, as no other team/driver has been stupid enough to lie when there's clear evidence...

Last edited by bbman, Thu 2 Apr 2009, 17:51.

Quote from Liff :

I had a look at a dozen Orion racing team hotlap videos, and none of them were even close to what you describe. Have a discussion with the top guys, and I'm sure they'll tell you that it's not the way to go fast in iRacing.

Hmm, can't find any from Richard again, he's doing it very profoundly... It may not be THE fastest, but certainly fast... Hell, I've tried myself: 1 lap smooth, one lap conciously overturning on corner entry... Guess which one was faster?

@PMD: Aero has to be better? Better values maybe, but from what I've read, iRacing implemented downforce based on angle of attack (rather than set angle in the garage) not that long ago... And since there's a new discussion about not losing downforce when the splitter (on the COT I presume) touches the ground, the DP may also be the only car with undertray aero... Sounds awfully like LfS (minus the DP) of about 2 years ago...

Quote from Liff :

The concept "induced understeer" has been mentioned only once on the iRacing forums, and even in that case not as a viable technique but as a mistake a driver made.

Have you confirmed with the Orion guys that they are really using the technique or just basing your opinion on watching videos? Of the top guys I've only been watching Huttu's and McLean's replays (Team Redline), and I don't think they show even a hint of induced corner entry understeer.

I don't have to... Quickly cranking the wheel to almost 180° on corner entry and straighten it as quickly when stepping on the throttle again is textbook induced understeer... But, if you feel better: Richard Towler himself said on the iforums there is an issue with too much grip over the limit...

I think the thread title should read "insane modifies car"...

Quote from Ball Bearing Turbo :

What I can't stop shaking my head over is the assertion that iRacing has serious physics issues. I'm starting to think that LFS bogus setup options are really starting to skew some people's pereptions of what realistic responses are and are not. I would wager that a very small fraction of competitive drivers in LFS use setups that are anywhere near what would be acheiveable (or desireable!) in a comparable vehicle in real life(tm).

I have zero problems getting the radical to step out in slower turns (quite the opposite, although the *default setup* is understeer city), but it has a ton of mechanical grip and once you overcome it you'd better be on your toes. I also have no issues, rather literally, drifting the Star Mazda around slower turns (and faster ones, but that's not usually intentional :razz. I *most certainly* cannot turn in the air, and I get caught braking too late at the top of the hill at Leguna more often that I'd care to share as well. I also get caught turning in to much at the bottom of the screw for the same reason.

Oh, it does... Slarti's observations are completely true (although he confused the light feel of understeer with tyres in the air), there is way too much grip over the limit... Or show me one RL driver that uses excessive induced understeer to scrub off speed and stabilize the car on corner entry? See any Orion HL-replay for how it's done to be fast in iRacing... Don't even let me start about the yaw angles the cars achieve without any loss in downforce... And there surely is a problem with low speeds too - I haven't watched Daytona Prototypes but I bet none of them bog down on the start even when they were on full throttle the second before, and the Radicals are no different...

Fact: in the Aero department, the only thing iRacing has over LfS is Ground Effect.
Fact: induced understeer, especially as excessive as shown in iRacing, in a car on fat, grippy slicks won't result in faster cornering.
Fact: dampers and ARBs in iRacing have no absolute value - how do you know you're setting realistic values there? How do you know if you even have realistic values to choose from?
Fact: driveline-model is non-existant. Shift with neither auto- nor manual(/petal) clutch - iRacing doesn't care. But god forbid you may want to get into gear when you get to the grid - silly boy, you have to wait for the lights to come on to do that!

I agree that iRacing has the potential to become the best sim quite quickly... If they'd finally wake up and focused on the physics instead of new cars when you don't even have enough members to get official races in any of the leagues other than the rookie ones and/or anytime else than peak times... As of now, there are so many elemental things still missing that the price seems quite cynic - I've got a year, but just because I am someone that can't stop halfway... After getting to A (which should be within the year) I won't continue as it stands now... What I then have for the € 200+ is nothing, maybe not even access to the member site/forums...

Entry for the Guglhupf Racing Team:

Team Name: Guglhupf Racing Team
Car Number: 11
Drivers:
R.Pirringer [Brilwing] AUT
G.Haiderer [Isehwurscht] AUT
B.Bendl [bbman] AUT

Quote from Mp3 Astra :

I can't see anything about that in the rules after another quick read.

Yeah, but it doesn't say anything about rosters apart from minimum and maximum size, that's why I'm asking...

Do all drivers that are listed in the roster of an event have to race?

As an example: how many video-streams do you know that work a)in a very high quality, and b) without hiccups? So how successful do you think this service will be?

Apart from the servers that would have to come straight from space/hell to manage it on their side, think about how big the textures and how detailed the models have become - we're talking Gigabytes in a matter of minutes...

Or as someone on another forum said: "Great, now you can enjoy your lag even in singleplayer!"

I imagine the RAC would be quite a blast to drive in RL... Remember that the ARBs in LfS currently are wrong (in the way they work)... Stiff(er) front ARBs and weak to no rear ARBs are exactly what every race car features, it makes the car stable... We have it completely opposite in LfS, whereas the RAC should be a pretty good inspiration of how it should be done...

Quote from kaynd :

The only insane thing I see is the car washing… Apart from that I notice only minor modifications… nothing really sophisticated apart from the esthetical part. And really when I saw the subwoofer it lost me there. The Nurburgring badges and heavy sound systems is just “no go”…

Yeah, he should have stopped with the rollbar really... And all that sound deadening to just half the outside noise? As any audiophile would point out: that's still a sh*tload of interference...

I don't even want to know how much he spent for this project - anyone of us had it probably taken to the track that gave its name to the car a couple of times for that money... Money way better spent me thinks...

Quote from Crommi :

I have no problem pointing out what flaws there are, but let's stick to facts and not make stuff up.

If you're gonna accuse me of that, show me what I've made up - you'll find nothing, so I suggest you keeping those comments to yourself...

Quote from Crommi :

[...]

Look at the URL...

It was something along the lines of the testing facility just started out so there couldn't have been any data from that in the sim yet and that come autumn we may see the first batch of data finding its way into the sim...

Another thing: tyres differ from track to track (that's confirmed by staff) and I seriously doubt they've gotten/are getting that much tyres from Goodyear, Michelin, Avon and others...

Quote from Crommi :

Ehm, having resources is bad?

As for tire data, is that a fact or your opinion?
Kaemmer wrote about the tire physics some time ago and made it pretty clear that they have plenty of data but it has proven to be quite challenging implement all of it into the sim.

How can it be fact when I put allegedly (yeah, spelled wrong in my previous post)???

It's just something that crept up continually in those "curb issues" or "car handles unrealisticly" threads on the iforums (yes, they really called it that), and from guys that beta-tested the sim...

Quote from Crommi :

iRacing has the advantage here of having much more connections to get some hard data on tires.

You mean more money...

They even market a superior tyre model by having their own testing facility - alledgedly not a single line of this data (if they have any yet) has dropped into the sim...

Quote from RJC_pt :

Yes, in my view they should

Well, that would mean no further updates can be expected - the very thing you're complaining about...

I'd like the patch to be finished already but for them to wait for everyone to shut up about it for just one week...

Quote from ColeusRattus :

Ah, I knew that love was in the air after jealously reading the event reports

Just imagine the racing genes possible offspring of becky and tristan would have.

:ices_rofl

Quote from Mattesa :

That's not too far off from the truth IMO. Although the problem is not that iRacing has more grip because cars in LFS do pull over 1G. The problem is that in LFS, the transition into and out of grip is way too smooth. That's part of the reason why it's so darn easy to drift in LFS.

Take "drifting" the Solstice as an example. When the car starts to oversteer it's a very noticeable break. When the car regains grip it's a very noticeable bite. You gotta be very quick with the steering otherwise you'll spin or tankslap, because that grip-slip transition is a lot more (realistically) abrupt.

Oversteer in the snow feels like LFS.
Oversteer on the track feels like iRacing.

It's quite good in the Solstice, but other cars have some problems still... Also, the tyres seem to be regarded as a solid object - it's too much following a curve (a very good one even by now, mind you), too sterile... As a consequence, induced understeer is very much promoted - something that on wide slicks (with downforce) would end in disaster afaik...

Anyway, the longer I go on, the more I'm disappointed... It's missing key elements that other sims had for some time... But for this price, it shouldn't... Don't get me wrong, it's still very good and hats off to the pace of development, but I can get an incomplete sim for a lot less than iRacing - and I don't pay them a cent for waiting...

A high, soft front is obviously to shift more weight to the front under braking, I don't know why you think I mean the rear... More weight at the rear is true on throttle, but that doesn't seem to be the main point of such a set...

So I couldn't have meant the rear tyres then... Either a softly sprung high ride height produces more load on the fronts under braking like I said or a stiffly sprung low ride height keeps the weight more rearwards, can't have both...

Not unless I've got something wrong... This setup seems to make the car nosediving under braking and the bias is usually pretty much forwards... I remember (faintly) that once I corrected the rake of such a setup with less ride height and stiffer front springs while leaving everything else untouched, it were the fronts that locked very soon...

Quote from sinbad :

Oh yeah, the closed beta testers are a big secret, and they may not even know who they are, or indeed if they exist, themselves.

Exactly, you couldn't find them anywhere, not even like in the ingame-credits... oh, wait...

In my experience an overdamped front rebound (which is what I'm seeing the most) takes longer to understeer in a long turn - I can only assume it has something to do with a lower roll centre/centre of gravity by not letting the car get up to its normal ride height... It's probably the primary reason why partial throttle application doesn't seem to exist in LfS... The only downside is the lack of reaction on quick direction changes - you have to force the car turning in the other direction...

I'm surprised you haven't noticed all those squatting cars though... The rake on pretty much every slick-shod car would never been used in RL... That's for braking (more load on the front tyres under braking -> shorter stopping distance)...

As for iRacing: you couldn't tell... The only thing you're setting are clicks under or above standard damping, there are no absolute values given so who knows what you're setting there...