Quote from runeman :

Nothing is owed to us, they either show us or not show us. If it's going to be released for beta testing, everyone needs to test it. Using S14's example, If A and B get to play with it and have all of the bugs worked out for them. Then C and D go ahead and play with it and it's buggy, they'll throw a fit, talk about quitting and make useless threads.

Yes it has been 3 and a half months, and it would be nice for maybe a status and maybe how long it would take, but the second they give a status report, first persons words "Alright it's almost done yay!", then your average impatient person, one or two weeks later after the status report "Dude that's not much to do, how can it take one or two weeks? Man can't the developers realize it's been so long." Then that first person changes his opinion and says the exact same thing.

We don't know how long it takes, who are we to judge? Be happy that it's even being developed. It's coming and will be here soon. Many other people say it "ruins their game".

But when it comes out and it's not what everyone expected.... All of the complainers will raise hell. Not having the scirocco shouldn't change the game.

I'm sorry but your view and opinion isn't the correct way to look at it, and you're just setting yourself up for misery and others having to listen to it.

You've read my post wrong. In fact you've probably read the first two sentences then assumed my post was the same as the other 90% in this thread.

I never said that anything was owed to us. I was merely making a suggestion that a firm status report from the devs would be a reassuring thing to see, rather than the spooky wall of silence we now have.

Obviously you will get the immature people, however for 80% of the community communication like this is dearly valued. I think my points raised have been much fairer than some of the other replies, and to be honest, communication between developers and the community will enhance the vision that the game is still being worked on. We've already had people quitting LFS because of this - a simple update on the website at least will reassure people that the new update is actually coming soon. How do we know that this isn't all "hot air"?

You've also jumped to conclusions in the fact that you think I'm just another whinging newbie chatting about the new car. I'm not, and not once in my previous post did I mention the Scirocco, I merely mentioned the patch/update. Everybody who has read the original postponement notice would know that the Scirocco isn't the only thing included in the patch. I said that on purpose to see how many people would jump to the conclusion that I desperately wanted the Scirocco, and I'm thankful its only you who hasn't read my post.

A status update would do much more good than harm, and would reassure the community that the devs are actually still working on it. 3 and a half months is a long time with no news

Quote from dontpannic :

I was merely making a suggestion that a firm status report from the devs would be a reassuring thing to see, rather than the spooky wall of silence we now have.

It's the devs doing precisely that that's caused all these pathetic accusations of the devs ruining peoples' lives - giving us a simple status report, mid-December. This whole thread is reason enough to never ever make that mistake again.

They didn't give a status report, they published a likely release date. Apparently that wasn't smart.

Vain

i think i'll do some laps on SR - FOX or R-R Dutch LFS experience!

i'ts better for some people around here to do the same or on an other server.. so you don't think all the time: when will the VWS be released.. Come on please, it will come soon or later.. you all must be happy all the new patches are free for use..!

cya on track

Quote from SamH :

It's the devs doing precisely that that's caused all these pathetic accusations of the devs ruining peoples' lives - giving us a simple status report, mid-December. This whole thread is reason enough to never ever make that mistake again.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion, Sam?

This is quoted from the website.

Quote :

We are pleased to announce that we plan to release the new VW Scirocco in Live for Speed during the week ending Friday 19th December.

To me, and I'm not blind, that looks like a planned release date of Friday the 19th December.

If it were a simple status report, you'd be looking at something like

Quote :

Hello Racers! Just to let you know we're still working on releasing the latest patch as soon as we can iron out the bugs. We've got the number of bugs down now, so we are closer to releasing the update.

Please tell me that you can see the difference there Sam. I would have thought someone with your caliber would have been able to see my point, however I fear that my well reasoned debate has fallen on deaf ears.

http://www.garry.tv/?p=829

See for me, even though this is kind of retrospective, is fantastic communication from developer/s to audience. Obviously I wouldn't expect as much detail to be put into the LFS devs status updates, but something a little more firm than "There's bugs and we're going to release it in early 2009".

Quote from dontpannic :

You've read my post wrong. In fact you've probably read the first two sentences then assumed my post was the same as the other 90% in this thread.

I never said that anything was owed to us. I was merely making a suggestion that a firm status report from the devs would be a reassuring thing to see, rather than the spooky wall of silence we now have........

I suppose its nice to read a post that is not whining and one that some thought has gone into!

However, it is not a complete wall of silence since Scawen did explain that he moved house and had some ISP problems. There is a good chance that this post may have passed you by because I think it moved down the forum relatively quickly. If you did miss this post then I can appreciate where you're coming from because it would definitely seem like a long time without any info.

Personally I think we've got to be pretty close but who knows, I think we've learnt its best not to speculate.

Regards

Quote from ebola :

I suppose its nice to read a post that is not whining and one that some thought has gone into!

However, it is not a complete wall of silence since Scawen did explain that he moved house and had some ISP problems. There is a good chance that this post may have passed you by because I think it moved down the forum relatively quickly. If you did miss this post then I can appreciate where you're coming from because it would definitely seem like a long time without any info.

Personally I think we've got to be pretty close but who knows, I think we've learnt its best not to speculate.

Regards

I never saw that post unfortunately! That would explain why I thought the gap without news was too big! I visit the forum only rarely due to the amount of silly threads that come up and flaming newbies. I've been racing on LFS for nigh on 5 years I suppose now, and no matter what happens, I'll still be racing here. I've seen the release of S1, the release of S2, and the interim cars too, some expected, most unexpected. I think the main reason why many people are/were upset was down to the fact that the devs mentioned a release date. One thing to learn/know in IT is never, ever mention a date that "work" will be finished by, if you miss it, your "customers" get very upset. (That wasn't a direct dig by the way - I work as an IT technician and know how these guys feel)

Quote from dontpannic :

Only if the people who have been selected as the testers boast about it on the forums. Actually, in that respect, how do we know that 100 or so people don't already have a closed beta?

The only people testing the VWS are the devs IIRC.

I believe there are a FEW select beta testers and that's not a problem, I don't think. However if an open beta was announced, where say, the first 100 people that applied would get it (or some other sort of, as a community felt, 'unfair', way of selecting those few people), many people would bitch and moan, and there's already way too much of that now..

Quote from dontpannic :

I am wondering though, throughout all of this I feel that the "wall of silence" now given by the developers is a little harrowing. What happened to the days of constant status updates?

I agree... and all this crazyness about Scirocco and other updates is a consequence of the "wall of silence".
Too much hype and too many announcements is never a good thing, but on the other hand, giving so little information is the best way to make people crazy too.

Imagine something very very simple....a web page with a simple list for the 10 or 20 top priority development tasks in LFS. For every task, a completion status, maybe percentage. No need to announce, no need to explain. List is there and gets updated for example every week. No need for posts from devs which finally get lost.

Scirocco enters the list, and later completion status becomes postponed because other higher priority tasks come on top...shadows bugs, ABS, relocation, whatever. Even the patch test forum is now silent...

Quote from dontpannic :

I never saw that post unfortunately! That would explain why I thought the gap without news was too big! I visit the forum only rarely due to the amount of silly threads that come up and flaming newbies. I've been racing on LFS for nigh on 5 years I suppose now, and no matter what happens, I'll still be racing here. I've seen the release of S1, the release of S2, and the interim cars too, some expected, most unexpected. I think the main reason why many people are/were upset was down to the fact that the devs mentioned a release date. One thing to learn/know in IT is never, ever mention a date that "work" will be finished by, if you miss it, your "customers" get very upset. (That wasn't a direct dig by the way - I work as an IT technician and know how these guys feel)

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=53551

I thought you may have missed it. I also work in IT and know exactly what you're talking about!

Quote from ebola :

http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=53551

I thought you may have missed it. I also work in IT and know exactly what you're talking about!

Thanks for the link, interesting read! Although, I think Scawen has actually, in his post, personified the general feeling around the community.

Quote :

I made my order which would be activated in 7 to 10 days. Amazingly, once again, I was served with a wall of silence. None of the promised emails, text messages and letters informing me of the progress. Even more amazingly, when phoning customer services a few times, I was informed that my order was proceeding as planned. Total disregard for the fact that I told them I was not receiving any of the progress reports and the order tracker was reporting a fault. Anyway, once the activation date had passed, Virgin Media finally admitted there was a problem, and it had supposedly been due to someone entering my old address with my new phone number.

Now obviously the details are incorrect, however I think thats probably what the community are scared of - that the patch will never happen.

NOTE TO POTENTIAL FLAMERS: Obviously I don't think this!

Well, i never said a word about the scirocco is postponed... But, now its is starting to be, well, i dont know the word. I understand that Scawen has moved, but, its three months now. All i want is some info from devs, what is going on, nothing more. If they will leave the community uninformed, it will be full of moaning people like me.

Quote from dontpannic :

Now obviously the details are incorrect, however I think thats probably what the community are scared of - that the patch will never happen.

NOTE TO POTENTIAL FLAMERS: Obviously I don't think this!

Oh, I see what you mean.. (kinda).

That if you switch over the lack of (visible) progress between getting a connection sorted out to getting the VWS patch released..

FTR, moaning people do nothing to help the situation, and frankly, there should be given a 3 strikes then piss off rule.. because the community doesn't care that you're an impatient little tyke! Go cry on some forum regarding WoW or somewhere else where whinging kids mingle in large groups..

It'll come when it's ready... like Grolsch.

Quote from dontpannic :

I think my points raised have been much fairer than some of the other replies, and to be honest, communication between developers and the community will enhance the vision that the game is still being worked on.

Don't take it personally, you're just receiving standard forum treatment.

It's not what you say that is wrong, is the fact you dare express an opinion which is not aligned with that of the fanboys and their end-all cure-all solution of 'nothing is owed' and the rest of the propaganda, which of course doesn't solve anything and just results in a number of people who pat each other backs and say to themselves, 'look how right, smart and wise we are'

when is this car getting released?

Quote from Nadeo4441 :

[snip] All i want is some info from devs, what is going on, nothing more. If they will leave the community uninformed, it will be full of moaning people like me.

Please, nothing personal to you, just using your sentence.

Truth is that if they kept us uninformed from the start and said nothing of the new Scirocco, no-one would be moaning it is not here. So the reason they say nothing now is because there is no point because any news just ends up as complaining later on. Thanks moaners.

Quote from bunder9999 :

well, shit... you ever heard of the search function? there is also a multi-page scirocco thread on the first page of this very forum category (which this thread has now been merged into). don't bitch at us because you're blind.

Maybe he hasn't because He's new and he doesn't know where to put it.

Instead of putting him down, help him and tell him nicely so he'll know what to do next time.

Quote from harjun :

when is this car getting released?

!!!

Sorry can't help but laugh. /childish

Quote from dontpannic :

How on earth did you come to that conclusion, Sam?

...

Quote from JasonJ :

Truth is that if they kept us uninformed from the start and said nothing of the new Scirocco, no-one would be moaning it is not here. So the reason they say nothing now is because there is no point because any news just ends up as complaining later on.

Not just theory, this thread, and the more offensive ones that the mods have shuffled off into the abyss, are conclusive proof that the devs did themselves no favours at all by trying to share information with the community. It's sad, but it's most certainly true.

Harjun bought an infraction for his spam post. He bought a few months ban for his follow-up PM.

Quote from Amynue :

......................After they destroyed our Christmas ..............................

ROFL get a life

Most of you crying for the car to be released sound like a bunch of spoiled brats. I bet that you get everything the second you ask for it from your parents don't you?
Most of you have probably never had to work towards something your entire lives. You are so used to getting everything right when you want it. When real life starts for you your going to be in for a rude awaking.

Grow up and find some patience please!!!

Quote from sinbad :

Oh yeah, the closed beta testers are a big secret, and they may not even know who they are, or indeed if they exist, themselves.

Exactly, you couldn't find them anywhere, not even like in the ingame-credits... oh, wait...

Quote from NightShift :

It's not what you say that is wrong, is the fact you dare express an opinion which is not aligned with that of the fanboys and their end-all cure-all solution of 'nothing is owed' and the rest of the propaganda, which of course doesn't solve anything and just results in a number of people who pat each other backs and say to themselves, 'look how right, smart and wise we are'

I really start to love you(r attitude), ragazzo...

Quote from FlyeThemoon :

Strange i dont see on you tube stupish videos about Why Scirocco isnt realese in LFS



PS But i find cool NEW for me you tube poop videos about Team Fortess 2 game, here one for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ro-DgXAEopI

ehmmm... since when is youtube the official "problem explenation" of lfs... its in the forums and on the official lfs site (lfs.net).
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=51458
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=53551

I saw an interesting debate on the previous page.

Just to make sure with you guys. It is not the fact that the devs released information about the Scirocco in december that created all the craze. It is that they gave a release date. It was an information that was too detailed. I'm not complaining about what they have done, and I think they understood that giving too detailed information (especially on the sensitive matter that are release dates) can lead to disproportionned responses for the community.

However, I hope, and am confident, that they will understand that giving some bits of information from times to times is only beneficial. I don't want them to reveal the entire content of the next patch, as I like the surprise effect. But perhaps saying between a third and half of what the patch will bring is going to be a great thing !

Just like this :

"Hey guys, we are pleased to tell you more about S2 Beta Patch C ! We have refined the tire model, fixed the barrier problems and something huge that you have been waiting for years and that will finally arrive sometimes soon, along with other minors yet enjoyable fixes and upgrades."

This is enough. You tell things, but you don't tell all. You ESPECIALLY don't tell about the release dates. And then everyone will be happy. They will have certain information, and won't be disappointed.

I don't think the devs owe us anything and especially don't owe us content. But I think some bits of information every now and then would be more than enjoyable.

People moan not because they are pissed, they moan because they are afraid and because they are uncertain. When the Scirocco was revealed in August (not annouced, revealed), people were afraid it would not be a good update. In november, people moaned because they were afraid of LFS development being worse. Now, they moan because they are uncertain about the new patch date. It's okay to be afraid guys, just don't let your fears take over you