I'm also astonished by this:

McLaren have also agreed to pay the costs incurred by the FIA for their investigation.

McLaren agrees to pay for the results of a damning report... quite revealing.

(biel avatar, Ruben)

Just read what McLaren wrote:

To avoid even the possibility of Ferrari information influencing our performance during 2008, McLaren has offered a set of detailed undertakings to the FIA which will impose a moratorium on development in relation to three separate systems.

And the report too, it's interesting. They just reviewed ten issues Ferrari considered 'ground-breaking'. There was widespread knowledge inside McLaren of three of them. This knowledge came from a 'mole', Stepney. They tested and used that undue knowledge to try to obtain an advantage. For me, this is copying.

On top of that, the apologies are repeated and widely addressed. Time to eat some humble pie, and try to stop the ongoing horror of the investigations...

Yeah, even the letter to the Fia council is somewhat irritating.

Edit: the story gets more interesting. McLaren wants closure because they're heavily under scrutiny. Old news (8 Dec), but somewhat related:

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/mo ... /story/0,,2224382,00.html


Anyway we finally know McLaren really copied Ferrari parts. Case closed but more investigations pending, it seems. And, if you really asks me, there's more than a reason to be angry at McLaren for the way they behaved. Now they are aware more people were involved because FIA told them. They even had the courage to try to get their hands on Raikkonen's title after they screwed the last races bigtime... sorry if I sound harsh, but I hope you understand. In other words they blatantly lied on almost every account but they didn't know... How can you know, then, if they're lying or not now?

Last edited by Albieg, Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:01.

An interesting McLaren press release:

http://www.mclaren.com/latestn ... eases-2007.php?article=60


Here's a brief translation:

Ferrari parts are on our cars, we didn't find them but the FIA did, we're sorry because we didn't find them but we didn't look well enough, we could have avoided all of this if we didn't turn a blind eye when we first saw Stepney communications, we have been caught red-handed and feel utterly ashamed that these discoveries shows clearly we copied Ferrari parts (but remember, we didn't look well enough!).

Since we've been caught red-handed we won't develop three separate systems which undoubtedly have been "inspired" by Ferrari, we will pay more attention to the people we hire and we'll be under scrutiny.

To the entire world: we're sorry, we know it sounds like we did it on purpose, but we were just careless. We'll pay for the costs of the investigation, too.

Let's forget about all the fights we had in and out of the track to put our fingers on the championship and have a drink, pals! We're sorry, after all...



Edit:

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/he ... detail/071213195034.shtml

News in F1-live, with links to redacted fia report. Fairly interesting in some parts.

Last edited by Albieg, Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:24.

Quote from felplacerad :

Perhaps Victor could add the option not to show which server you are online at. Just like you can hide your online statistics at LFS World. That would make sense in my opinion.

This would make sense if someone wants to prevent being "stalked".

Quote from Blackout :

I think some OPEC members recently demanded get rid of using dollar, and that says enough for me.

The link between dollar and petrol has weakened over time. This is, for some analysts, one of the main reason of the decline of the dollar. The problem (for the dollar) is that it's no longer the universal currency it used to be. Like it or not, Euro has become an increasingly interesting currency for global exchanges.


Houses in Europe are expensive almost everywhere. That must be because Europeans love using bricks to build their houses...
To have an idea the house I live in, which is nothing special, is worth about 30 years of my wage . Luckily I already own most of it (two floors out of three, the other one is owned by my family).

Luckily good food is cheap and abundant, here.

Quote from marzman :

What were the lines in the video in South City?

Looks like Kegetys' Ghostcar mod line drawing.

Quote from Boris Lozac :

You really don't get it, do you..

And it's quite an easy concept: public roads are... ehm, uh, er... public. Only morons don't get the meaning and the implications of the word.

- My G25 doesn't creak, doesn't make strange noises, doesn't have the slightest hint of unwanted movement, neither sideways nor up and down. My Momo black creaks, has the typical knocking sound and a considerable amount of unwanted/unnatural up and down movement because the plastic bearing has worn out.

- The G25 has 2 FFB motors, and it shows.

- G25's FFB, quality wise, is far better than that of Momo Racing Black. I cannot compare it to DFP since I haven't got it or tried it. The Momo and the DFP draw about the same quantity of power while the G25 definitely needs more, so you have stronger effects. Yes, it's substantially different from the DFP. Shall I mention the differences in the pedals too, or is it easy to accept that, although far from being perfect, the G25 is a far superior wheel than the DFP?

No doubt racing is a more complex task than hotlapping because it puts to test different skills since you have to evaluate and adapt your driving a lot more than in hotlapping.

But anyway no one is dissing Biggie's abilities and dedication here (I'd like to have them, for sure!), it's just that Bawbag is excellent in both racing and hotlapping.

Congratulations from me too, I think he really deserves it, and not only for his driving/racing skills.

Quote from thisnameistaken :

What am I, your answering service? Blas89 just called me and now he wants to change his vote to Williams too! Sorry about this, some people are very indecisive.

As a form of compensation for Blas89's indecision, I decided to vote for Ferrari.

(Nah, I didn't vote. As usual, I'll wait and see. Kubica FTW at the moment, I don't root for car manufacturers.)

Just sharing a pair of random thoughts.

I don't know if you've seen "boom headshot", or whatever the name of the video is. Either this guy is a total gamer freak or an actor with a future in the business. There's something interesting in what he says, though.

"Army's just like fps but with better graphics
but if it lags there I'm dead"

In the middle of madness, a hint of sanity.

And all things considered, the true nature of your work is killing and/or dying for your country. That's the main reason for the existence of the military. Is it difficult? I don't know. I didn't kill anyone in my life, and of course I didn't die.

My grandfather had a little more experience, since he fought in two wars. He was one of the few Italians who could say he wasn't a loser in each of them, the first world war and the civil war against fascism. The second world war was fought by grandpa being a declared political opposer and organising the Resistance.

I remember my father saying that if the Nazis discovered what my grandfather did they would have burned his house with him and all his relatives locked inside. Nice times, you know. (Every war has his horrendous crimes, you know. And if you take a close look you'll see that the winning side has its good share of crimes.)

And I recall that I asked him once "What did you do during the war?"
"I shot."
"And did you ever kill anyone?"
"No, killing a man is like melting the snow on the mountains."
Melting the snow on the mountains. A friulian motto, it means doing a stupid, useless and enormous task.

I was a child at the time. I didn't know my grandfather lied to protect me. In an outburst of rage my father talked about those times, clearly stating that my grandfather put to death a lot of traitors. I have no doubt they deserved it. He was a shy man, he didn't like having any kind of power, and he put dignity and individual freedom above all. He was tremendously respected as a wise and brave person, although he didn't like the attention.

My grandfather, for sure, didn't like killing but he had to do it, and didn't like the idea of dying but accepted the possibility, even for his whole family. Tough choices, you know.
Nevertheless, he chose to lie to his grandchildren. I understand why he did it. That's why I respect his decision.

What I mean to say is just, don't underestimate the task. It has enormous personal costs if you respect and value life. If you don't, it's much easier.

Take for instance the Iraqi insurgents: they're not afraid to die. They crave their death. They're happy to die in the name of Allah. They crave heaven. Life must really be hell, for them. No wonder they die in scores. Oh, and they never stop dying, there's always plenty of'em. If they don't kill but just die, they're happy all the same. Dying, for them, is more important than killing.

(I hope you get the idea: even if they lose, they've won. You can't win a war against this kind of "soldiers". There's no higher reward than their own death, for them.)

What I mean in all this confusion (and I could go on for ages) is that you have to try to tell her that in real life it's not easy being a soldier. It's not like boom headshot. And if it is, there's something scary.

Try to see if she understands that it's a question of being prepared to kill, die or both. For what, and at what costs? Her choice. The best thing? Be extremely informed. You may survive, but you never know what hidden price you could pay in the future. Such as being dishonest with your grandchildren to protect them. For an honest person, it may be a big price to pay.

Edit: apologies for the endless post.

Last edited by Albieg, Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:34.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

Ok I'll try again.

I don't know what you want me to say or understand... do you want me to say that Scotland deserved to win or tie with the benefit of two wrong offside decisions? Would you really be happy about winning that way? I wouldn't. Just as much as you can't say that the damage suffered by Scotland is worse than two wrong offside decisions. You simply can't say so. In this case I can understand your pain, but not your reasons.

Edit: to Deko: sometimes I can't understand humour, because I really can't see it, or just because it's bad. Maybe I just don't get the Scottish humour, although I get the English one. The second is famous worldwide, while the first...

Last edited by Albieg, Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:22.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

But diving goes unpunished, while hard yet fair tackles get punished, by that I mean he goes in hard and gets the ball, yet a free kick awarderd agaisnt and sometimes the player is yellow carded (And I'm not talking about yesterdays game, but all games invovling British side agisnt european sides) How is that just or fair?

Diving doesn't go unpunished, at least here. This is another myth. Players get booked if they're discovered diving here. Italian rules about the use of TV footage don't allow punishment for non-violent fouls yet, but there's an ongoing discussion to extend it also to cheating players. And, contrary to popular belief outside of Italy, diving is not considered part of the game, except by divers. The general public doesn't condone diving.

As far as I understand that you're at loss for a referee's decision, I still can't understand why you can't accept that. I really can't see your point since I'm not so involved in it emotionally, and I believe your point of view is purely emotional. I take matches as a whole, I don't pick what I like and what I dislike. Football works that way. If I have to discuss a match I can focus on single episodes, but I measure them all, not only the single one that split my heart in two. In this, Scotland still lost and you admit it too. Why discuss further about it, I don't know.


Hankstar, thanks for your words. I'd like to see divers and cheaters severly punished every time, just like you, no matter what shirt they wear.

Edit: And for hard tackling, it depends on the definition. What I saw from Scottish players on Zambrotta and Gattuso can't be considered hard tackling: in hard tackling you must get the ball before the legs (that should be avoided whenever possible, not whenever convenient), not just the legs...

Last edited by Albieg, Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:17.

Watch the clip, Kev. Clowns are everywhere. That must be why the level of interest in foreign national championships in Italy is non-existent. Except for players that want to come here, of course.

Edit: I live in the only town in Italy where the separation between spectators and players are gone for good. My team, Udinese, has been renowned in the last 20 years for fair play. Violence is practically zero here, and Udinese plays at the moment a wonderful football.
I recognise there are lots of problems in Italian football and that my hometown is a pleasant exception (like many others), but discussing troubles emotionally - and not objectively - isn't the best way to solve them.

Last edited by Albieg, Mon, 19 Nov 2007 00:24.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

However i can't see how you fail to see that the ref cost us.

I see it perfectly, just as I see that the assistant's decision had a cost for Italy. Let's rectify the errors and see the outcome: Scotland still lost. End of the game. No reason to complain. I really don't understand how you can turn a blind eye to anything favouring Scotland. I don't. The referee's decision was bad, but not more damaging than the rest. Do you really think that two goals have no meaning in a football match?

You defend tough play? I don't. I don't defend fouls from behind just as I don't defend diving. They are both a shame that should be always punished. You admit you have your own divers: let's not discuss about the quality of divers. Diving sucks, no matter if it's realistic or not.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

I still stand by that the Italians dived/went down too easy. The other post is a prime example of PUI (posting under influence) and I apologies for any offense caused.

You separate outrageous calls by referees and assistants. I don't. The rules tells me that there are four people on the pitch that are in charge of deciding how a match should be played.

You say Italians dive too easily. I just watched two dangerous fouls damaging Zambrotta and Gattuso. No one complained about the hard game. But as I said in my post before (with a nice clip too), the diving game is a shame, but let's not consider this only Italian, or preeminently Italian: it's a lie, in that clip you'll see players from a variety of teams from all over the world.

I remember that a French member of this forum had an avatar with "Caution: Italian Footballers" written on a slippery floor sign. I remember that this unmentionable, ignorant, rude and outright criminal guy has been banned from this forum for unmentionable reasons, but we know the score. He should have seen that clip too, Drogba is really fun to watch. So are players from all over the world. Italy is no exception, but it's no rule.

About the standard of refereeing: it was poor, but you don't have any kind of reason to complain. No matter who did a mistake, there were three major decisions completely wrong, and a referee's decision, in this case, doesn't change for worse a match more than two decisions of a single assistant.

As for conspiracy theories, I really can't buy them. I just have to take a look at the refereeing of Scotland-Italy to dismiss them.

Should it be a reason to complain? Maybe, but I see a much bigger problem: football shouldn't be used as a means for spreading commonplaces about entire nations. This sounds like a rather dull, childish and unjustified vengeance: I'm suffering because I lost a football match, so I have a right to make you suffer worse, smearing the name of an entire nation. Do you really see an honourable behaviour in this? I don't. I see nationalism at its worst. So your apologies are welcome.

Quote from Mackie The Staggie :

I will however stand by my earlier comments, the Italian's went down hell of an easily, and the ref was incredible poor (I've seen better referring in the 2nd Division in Scotland) We can't blame him for the offside allowed goal, and the disallowed goal for offside, thats the assistant's fault. But that free kick in the last seconds was a real body blow.

So, when hard feelings should have subsided you stand about previous comments about Italian stylists with handbags and all the commonplaces about Italians you were ranting about.

It's curious to see, then, how some people are selective about mistakes, especially when they contradict their official truth, and give whatever meaning they want to whatever they see... For instance I see three major mistakes, just as you do, and I see that without those mistakes Italy would still have won.

But I guess dishonesty is normal in defeat. I mean, there must be some kind of excuse, we must have lost because it was written in the stars, the referee stunk, people dive, and if the two offside decisions were against Scotland (two goals robbed to Italy and someone still has the courage to talk about unfair refereeing!) so many people would have screamed at a conspiracy...

I heard many sore Italian losers after the Japan/Korea WC and they don't sound any different from all the sore losers of the world. I'm glad to see some Scots are contributing to dispel a myth. Just let me say that discovering that we're not the most pathetic losers of the world comes at the expense of honour, but luckily not mine. At least with Korea the Italian sore losers had some real reason to complain. Here, I really see none, except playing the blame game.

Last edited by Albieg, Sun, 18 Nov 2007 22:59.

What you think about Italians in general is far from being real, but I guess you don't read Italian newspapers. Your attitude is revealing all your prejudices. No one came here saying "Italy's the best" (although as WC we reasonably could say so), or that we have no troubles. This is just an ignorant invention of yours. Or worse, saying or implying that all Scots are far from being manly and that they should all be ashamed (although I see some example of the contrary here and there, but I'm no xenophobe or racist, I can distinguish a single individual from an entire nation).

Whiners are everywhere, and you are one of them. If you aren't able to cope with defeat, turn off your TV, but don't flood this forum with your blatant and self-defeating lies.

Last edited by Albieg, Sun, 18 Nov 2007 19:26.

Quote from johnfromsunnymull :

but i still stand by my comments earlier on

So you defend your selective memory on episodes and your immature call to all Italians of the forum just to scream your pain for something non-existent.

Sum up all the errors and say: "Yup, Scotland got lucky but deservedly lost". Because it's so. But hey, two wrong offside decisions penalising Italy mean nothing to whiners, they just turn the head the other way when they don't realise that there were three major mistakes, not one, with the decision on the penalty being correct, rules at hand.

Whiners. They make me sick with their sickness.

Edit: on top of that, I see a lot of prejudices in your posts: the referee was Spanish, I knew this was going to happen, blah blah blah. If you want to question the professionality of the referee, fine. But if you want to question his honesty, start with yours, since he damaged Italy much more than he benefitted it (and this is clear). Don't ask about others people honesty, ask about yours first.

Last edited by Albieg, Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:19.

Yes, no one else will notice. I'm really just pissed off by moralism disguised as morality, I really don't care about such little achievements in football (for Italy, I mean).

Typical rant following the usual ritual pattern: winners win, and losers whine. The referee clearly penalised Italy with the decisions on offsides, so there's really no base to complain overall.

Edit: shall I blame the parents for the poor quality of posting?

Last edited by Albieg, Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:23.

I didn't watch the game. I'm not "embaresst".

I'll just take zeugnimod's word for good, or let's say that I have some good reasons to trust him more than you. I also read that Di Natale's goal was good and not in offside. I've just watched the highlights, and the goal was good. Scotland's goal was in offside. What kind of game have you been watching? What kind of post did you feel authorised to do?

Have a reminder: a lot of football players dive and it's a shame. Not all of them are Italians. Stop posting things like this, or be fair in your analysis.

Last edited by Albieg, Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:12.

Quote from Hyperactive :

I think it would be the best if the teams voted about the punishments

If each team was really independent from any other one, it would work, but there are too many close relationships and rivalries. In this situation I see some teams capable of forming alliances based on relationships and interests and not on fairness of judgement.

I'm curious to see how F1 will be managed next year; from what I've seen this year I don't see any good coming. I hope I'm wrong.