The online racing simulator
[OLD] Tyre Physics Progress Report
(4436 posts, closed, started )
Quote from DevilDare :I got a question.

What exactly are we getting in S3? A new car, and Rockingham. Is that enough content to pay another 12 pounds for?

In S2 we got 3 venues, and 11 new cars.

Dont get me wrong, I will buy S3 the minute its released, but I personally think its a bit too little for the long awaited S3.

Hopefully the devs have something else planned for it. Really hope Eric is working on another venue. Else, S3 will feel very empty and the whiners will be back couple months after the release. You can count on that.

Anyways, I'll put on my flame suit now because I heard it be raining fanboys.

In iRacing, you gotta pay more than that for a car and a track
Quote from bunder9999 :what about all the textural bugs and object placement bugs already present in lfs?

Those are mostly programmatic glitches - or just not updated yet.

Hey - sometimes in real life an odd artifact will exist on a real track......
Quote from CodieMorgan :Those are mostly programmatic glitches - or just not updated yet.

Hey - sometimes in real life an odd artifact will exist on a real track......

not so much as floating walls/poles/etc.

i'm willing to let the wall-ad "off by nnn pixels" slide, but the one bug i posted about BL's kerbs made me sad. now, one could say "serves you right for editing the textures", but how was i going to know that some of them are just a few mashed-together polygons?

edit: i don't exactly know where i was going with this, now that i've posted it.
Quote from chunkyracer :The question is that, from what we can gather from Scawen´s posts, the next patch will only include the Scirocco, announced 2 years ago, and the tyre physics update, and not the new track and car announced as S3 content. And there´s also this:

Which means that at least some updates on the current cars and tracks could be part of the next patch. So, I find logical that people, once again, express their opinion about this subject. Like I said before, as long as it´s done in a polite and construtive manner I don´t see any problem with it.

And I dont see the need to be polite once the defensors of scavier temple are never.

I think LFS is a product, and Scavier is a company, and we are the clients, and we have rigths: to complain, to wait for more, to expect.

There is nothing wrong about it.

Wrong is some company that uses excuses about the sad progress of its work, come to public to say that it does what it whant to do when it want, no matter what the clients wait for or say.

Wrong is to complain about the complains.

Everybody here that defend the Scavier way to work, would not accept same treat in an hair saloon or grocery.

If your train is late, you don't say "ok, I'll wait for more 3 hours because the driver knows what he is doing".

If your doctor is late, you don't say "ok, I'll live with this pain for more months because the doctor said he is tired and get some rest".

Scavier team has no obligation to give some reports, I think. But it is a company, not a bunch of kids doing their house on the tree.

There are thousands of users around the world waiting for something, and waiting for a long time. LONG time.

So, if people comes here and complaing, first thing that this "team" must to understand is that this situation was created by them, not us.

That weren't us that come here and ask for someone to create a simulator, we didn't come here and said: Hey, you, please, develop something for us.

Second, they promise, and if you promise something, you must to make it. Pay you debts, stay there on the clock, be honest.

So, people that defends this state of the things here, saying the same old bs of ever and ever (like "if you dont like get out" and other pearls), is wrong. This side of the forum is rarely polite, and is totaly refractary about moaners and complainers.
Quote from Speed Soro :And I dont see the need to be polite once the defensors of scavier temple are never.

I think LFS is a product, and Scavier is a company, and we are the clients, and we have rigths: to complain, to wait for more, to expect.

There is nothing wrong about it.

Wrong is some company that uses excuses about the sad progress of its work, come to public to say that it does what it whant to does when it want, no matter what the clients wait for or say.

Wrong is to complain about the complains.

Everybody here that defend the Scavier way to work, would not accept same treat in an hair saloon or grocery.

If your train is late, you don't say "ok, I'll wait for more 3 hours because the driver knows what he is doing".

If your doctor is late, you don't say "ok, I'll live with this pain for more months because the doctor said he is tired and get some rest".

Scavier team has no obligation to give some reports, I think. But it is a company, not a bunch of kids doing their house on the tree.

There are thousands of users around the world waiting for something, and waiting for a long time. LONG time.

So, if people comes here and complaing, first thing that this "team" must to understand is that this situation was created by them, not us.

That weren't us that come here and ask for someone to create a simulator, we didn't come here and said: Hey, you, please, develop something for us.

Second, they promise, and if you promise something, you must to make it. Pay you debts, stay there on the clock, be honest.

So, people that defends this state of the things here, saying the same old bs of ever and ever (like "if you dont like get out" and other pearls), is wrong. This side of the forum is rarely polite, and is totaly refractary about moaners and complainers.

You paid £24 for this content you have now, it's not like Devs MUST give you more content.
Quote from Speed Soro :And I dont see the need to be polite once the defensors of scavier temple are never.

I think LFS is a product, and Scavier is a company, and we are the clients, and we have rigths: to complain, to wait for more, to expect.

There is nothing wrong about it.

Wrong is some company that uses excuses about the sad progress of its work, come to public to say that it does what it whant to does when it want, no matter what the clients wait for or say.

Wrong is to complain about the complains.

Everybody here that defend the Scavier way to work, would not accept same treat in an hair saloon or grocery.

If your train is late, you don't say "ok, I'll wait for more 3 hours because the driver knows what he is doing".

If your doctor is late, you don't say "ok, I'll live with this pain for more months because the doctor said he is tired and get some rest".

Scavier team has no obligation to give some reports, I think. But it is a company, not a bunch of kids doing their house on the tree.

There are thousands of users around the world waiting for something, and waiting for a long time. LONG time.

So, if people comes here and complaing, first thing that this "team" must to understand is that this situation was created by them, not us.

That weren't us that come here and ask for someone to create a simulator, we didn't come here and said: Hey, you, please, develop something for us.

They should have never tried to develope a complex simulator in the first place... Not!
Quote :
Second, they promise, and if you promise something, you must to make it. Pay you debts, stay there on the clock, be honest.

What is it they promised?
Revon, Im not asking for nothing for 24 any money. And Im not asking for S3. They promised S3, they sold the dream, they are responsible for this forum, for this community (sic) and for all complains. Don't put words in my post, I didn't say what you affirm.

Jazzon, once they have "tried" to make anything they want, once they sell this, they are responsible for it, not us.

HP999, yes it is a company. The form it is made is not my problem. Or it is a company of just 3 guys, 3000 guys or 1 guy, it is nothing. What defines a company is to make something or some service that is sold to the market. It has clients, it is a company.
Quote from Speed Soro :Revon, Im not asking for nothing for 24 any money. And Im not asking for S3. They promised S3, they sold the dream, they are responsible for this forum, for this community (sic) and for all complains. Don't put words in my post, I didn't say what you affirm.

Can you please show me the link on the lfs.net site where you can purchase a S3 license?

They said they PLAN to do this and that. Thats not a promise. I plan to do a lot of things in the future, but I can't promise that I'll actually do them.
Quote from Speed Soro :What defines a company

What defines a company - in the UK - is incorporation. Partnerships and other forms of unincorporated businesses are not companies. I don't know if LFS is actually a private limited company, but technically "company" refers to a specific type of business, not just any ole business providing a product or a service
Freaking funny how people gets fooled themselves and they are posting against each other.


Not the every forum have kind of entertainment!
Quote from Speed Soro :Revon, Im not asking for nothing for 24 any money. And Im not asking for S3. They promised S3, they sold the dream, they are responsible for this forum, for this community (sic) and for all complains. Don't put words in my post, I didn't say what you affirm.

Jazzon, once they have "tried" to make anything they want, once they sell this, they are responsible for it, not us.

HP999, yes it is a company. The form it is made is not my problem. Or it is a company of just 3 guys, 3000 guys or 1 guy, it is nothing. What defines a company is to make something or some service that is sold to the market. It has clients, it is a company.

Notice anything here?

''A small, 3-man team is developing Live for Speed, which has just announced the third, and final phase of a 3-phase development cycle. Phase 2 brought in many updates, including the first real cars (The BMW Sauber F1 car being included in those), however for Phase 3 the first real-world circuit has been announced - The Rockingham Motor Speedway[7]. The circuit will be laser-scanned for absolute accuracy. Also coming soon is another real-world car - the new VW Scirocco; for which several physics changes have had to be made to ensure a fully accurate simulation.[8]''

No, not a company,not The A-Team, a team.
Quote from Speed Soro :once they have "tried" to make anything they want, once they sell this, they are responsible for it, not us.

They are responable for it, indeed.

Last time i checked, the Simulator they created, offers online racing with realistic handling, able to run flawless on an average PC.

That is all they have 'promised'...
Quote from Amynue :What the ...? I thought it's LFS forum, not NFS forum. Seriously, come on guys. Nothing better can happen to a simulator than a physics update. Simulator means as close to reality as possible. If you don't agree with that you should go play one of these pseudo-simulators with cheap physics but loads of tracks and cars - such as rFactor.
We didn't get any new content lately because we simply didn't pay for it. You should be happy with BF1 and FBM (soon also VWS) which we got for free. After "the more important than content things" will be done - which is physics updates - new S3 content will start arriving, starting with Rockingham and an unknown car. It seems like all S3 content going to be real and licensed so that required the physics updates, limited setups system and so on.
Just don't shit your pants guys. We have to wait for the awesome.

+1 , I just read manne's post and was totaly shocked.
Quote from Speed Soro :Revon, Im not asking for nothing for 24 any money. And Im not asking for S3. They promised S3, they sold the dream, they are responsible for this forum, for this community (sic) and for all complains. Don't put words in my post, I didn't say what you affirm.

Jazzon, once they have "tried" to make anything they want, once they sell this, they are responsible for it, not us.

HP999, yes it is a company. The form it is made is not my problem. Or it is a company of just 3 guys, 3000 guys or 1 guy, it is nothing. What defines a company is to make something or some service that is sold to the market. It has clients, it is a company.

You are totally wrong in the above posts. The developers are not obliged to give us extra content just because we payed for the game. They are doing this because #1, They want to, they like the game and its players, they like what they have created and wanted to continue on with it. Also #2 the game is in development. So that's my short reasoning against yours.

Shit, double post
I'm glad to hear the news. While it's nothing quantifiable, which would be silly and give people an excuse to guess (poorly) when the next patch will be release then have grounds (not really) to complain about it 'not being on time', it certainly is more info than I expected. LFS is still the best feeling sim I've ever played. I'm not a physisist or professional driver so I cannot account for the actual realism of LFS but I will just go with the fact that driving in LFS feels more like driving IRL than anything else (minus the g-forces, of course). While I certainly dont play as often as I used to I still greatly enjoy racing and drifting with other when there's good racing and drifting to be found.

Thank you, Scawen. Your work is greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Someone who's been here since alpha and was losing faith...
I think many here cant understand my point: I am not saying that they are obligated to give us s3. What Im saying is that anyone here that complain, has the right to complain, because it is a client right. It is business, not joke.

If Scavier will not give S3, so say "we will not give S3". If they "plan" to give S3, and people wait for 3 years, I think this people has the right to come here and protest.

If there was a Duke Nuken Forever forum, people would be there also complaining. And if Scavier keeps this forum alive, they cant complain against complainers that come here.

It is about the right of complain that Im talking, not about obligations of the Scavier team, however I could say a lot about it too.
Ah.. and BTW, I was forgetting to say something necessary: THANK YOU SCAWEn for the lasts reports.
great work devs!!

I hope new patches could be out asap, or else we will lose more people in this community
Quote from JeffR :iRacing has also gone through it's growing pains in terms of physics and car parameter tweaks, in spite of it's huge team and budget, for example, the excessive engine braking effect on the spec racer Ford, causing it to spin at even a hint of lift throttle in turns was fixed about a year after release.


I feel this effect on every road car (I don't try the ovals cars), and it is the main reason for what I don't like iRacing, totally unreal when braking the car. Too much easy to spin, and a little wheel controler delay that impides to rectify at time. I have a kart, and in LFS I can rectify a spin in time without problems like in real life, in iRacing it is too much hard

LFS need some big bumps on tracks like Fern Bay, and improved ForceFeedback. Some new track, or better the possibility to load custom tracks made in 3DMAX or similar....Also what is discussed on the topic, tyre physics.

This would be a new era for LFS.
Quote from Speed Soro :I think many here cant understand my point: I am not saying that they are obligated to give us s3. What Im saying is that anyone here that complain, has the right to complain, because it is a client right. It is business, not joke.
I understand what you are saying, but there is a difference between complaining about something you already have and complainging about something you want! Most people here are complaining that they want the new physics now, or them wanting new tracks and stuff like that. You haven't paid for this kind of stuff, so in my opinion you have no right to complain about it. Yes, you could make a suggestion to the Devs, but you don't have the right to complain about not having it. Actually, the only complaining you have rights for are the bugs in game.

If Scavier will not give S3, so say "we will not give S3". If they "plan" to give S3, and people wait for 3 years, I think this people has the right to come here and protest.
Nope they haven't. If they say they're planning to make us S3 they can take as long as they want on it. There is no release date mentioned and no promises have been made. And the longer it takes, the better it is

If there was a Duke Nuken Forever forum, people would be there also complaining. And if Scavier keeps this forum alive, they cant complain against complainers that come here.

It is about the right of complain that Im talking, not about obligations of the Scavier team, however I could say a lot about it too.

Maybe you can complain about the Scirocco, but i still think it's rediculous to do this. You should be thankfull for what those 3 men have been and are doing at the moment for us. Those 3 men have been able to keep up with the competition pretty well and other sims still have more people behind it then LFS does.
They could give us at the very least a progress report just to let the (good) part of the community know what is actually going on.
But if they don't feel like it there is nothing we can do about so just f$cking live with it.
Quote from three_jump :http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?p=1454911#post1454911

missed that one?

Yes I have and so what development takes time when you have just 3 poeple so my word stil stands F$CKING learn to live with the progress.
Al I can think of is that Scawen could team up with some other coders who love race simulation and no this is not to speed up development its might turn out to be interesting to hear how they see things.

I have had the same with me being in a class for becoming a graphical designer.
I find it one of the most fun things to see the visions of other people to not only see things trough my own eyes, because it interests me and fills me up with new and exciting ideas and ways to do things.
So it might just be an interesting experience for you of course its al up to you but trust me on this working together for fun is more interesting then for commercial purposes.

But it is very pleasing to hear from you Scawen seems like you are doing lots of interesting things to LFS I'm loving it.
Don't tell me you actually think Scawen sits in his room coding, trying things on his own, never talking to other people?

No man can do anything by himself (talking about complex things like this).

If he wants to be a single coder on a team, that is not because he doesn't want advice/different perspective on things. It's just so he knows his code and doesn't have to figure out what the hell someone else wrote (although as some others said before, it happens with your own code, too ).

This is just my guess, but I'm pretty sure Scawen does indeed communicate with [who knows who].
He would probably be in a psychiatry care (is that the correct word?) by now if he tried to understand tires and physics on his own.
This thread is closed

[OLD] Tyre Physics Progress Report
(4436 posts, closed, started )
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