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[OLD] Tyre Physics Progress Report
(4443 posts, closed, started )
Quote from zeugnimod :I just find it funny that Scawen now does what many people wanted and those people still complain because they didn't like what he said.

My words
Quote from Flame CZE :Anyway, it's a bit sad to look at some posts in this thread, where some people say/think that the Devs are dead or stopped working on LFS - in fact they announced that they are working on tyre physics, planning to include a new car and a new track - and many people actually wish to have some new cars and/or tracks and/or better physics.

Quote from Flame CZE :My words

The question is that, from what we can gather from Scawen´s posts, the next patch will only include the Scirocco, announced 2 years ago, and the tyre physics update, and not the new track and car announced as S3 content. And there´s also this:
Quote from Scawen :
It's up to Eric what of his work gets released, never have I tried to stop something of his being released!

Which means that at least some updates on the current cars and tracks could be part of the next patch. So, I find logical that people, once again, express their opinion about this subject. Like I said before, as long as it´s done in a polite and construtive manner I don´t see any problem with it.
@chunkyracer: Why do you think so about the Scawens statement on Eric? Eric can release his updates whenever he wants, and Scawen doesn't want to stop him from that, that's good, isn't it?
Thank you for the new informations Scawen.
I'm also prefer the stability and quality, what is rare today - it is higher priority and value, I also not prefer quick release of unfinished and bug-full product.
I have understanding, and I agree with you.
Good luck to further developing
Quote from The Very End :Boobs are epic, silicon too, but it's still just the same pair of boobies.
I guess most of you got that metaphore (typo)

Yes but silicon boobs don't feel as good as the real deal.
I would really love to see some kind of reports from Eric.
Silence from him bugs me most of all.

We never know what is he doing until it's done and released.

Even an .jpeg texture/headreast of a car/kurb model/wireframe model of a bonnet he is working on would make my day/month/year.
Quote from Flame CZE :@chunkyracer: Why do you think so about the Scawens statement on Eric? Eric can release his updates whenever he wants, and Scawen doesn't want to stop him from that, that's good, isn't it?

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse son.
Maybe I got it wrong. I meant, Scawen isn't stopping Eric from working on something, so Eric can release whatever he wants. True, there could be some iniciative from Scawen telling him what should be done. Hmm...
Quote from Scawen :- The suspension updates I hope won't be too difficult, though that is an area where one thing could lead to another, so I don't really know. I think it will be a case of "where to draw the line". It's doesn't need to be the final update to suspension systems but if I could get a bit of anti-dive and anti-squat working then it would help with the default car setups which are more softly sprung now.

Perhaps these links might be helpful for the suspension updates.

- http://www.susprog.com/index.htm
- http://www.susprog.com/susptype.htm
- http://www2.ee.ic.ac.uk/cap/pu ... 2003/whlbase_filt_pap.pdf
Quote from Flame CZE :Maybe I got it wrong. I meant, Scawen isn't stopping Eric from working on something, so Eric can release whatever he wants. True, there could be some iniciative from Scawen telling him what should be done. Hmm...

I think the train of thought goes more like:

Scawen isn't stopping Eric from releasing anything so if nothing gets released does that mean that Eric didn't do anything?

I think that most of the content updates (cockpits, tracks cars) are incompatible with the current LFS version and would need to reset all / some WR-stats. So it's probably better to release all of those updates in one bigger "patch" than a couple of few ones.

Still would be nice to get some previews of stuff (content) that is actually finished
Quote from boothy :Now you're just being deliberately obtuse son.

And now you can comprehend how Scavier works - each one provides what he wants, can and makes. Eric does not make much so I wouldnt mind i.e Lynce to cooperate
Quote from AndRand :And now you can comprehend how Scavier works - each one provides what he wants, can and makes. Eric does not make much so I wouldnt mind i.e Lynce to cooperate

Doing what, precisely?
Quote from three_jump :I think that most of the content updates (cockpits, tracks cars) are incompatible with the current LFS version and would need to reset all / some WR-stats. So it's probably better to release all of those updates in one bigger "patch" than a couple of few ones.

while i disagree with the premise that resetting the wr charts while still officially at alpha stage i something to fret about id say that after 2 years a content update is overdue regardless of whether the physics will be updated along with the content or not
I am happy to hear somethink good about lfs updates so I am waiting
I hope on the summer end september-----> october will be some updates
Thanks for the update, Scawen!
Thanks for the update Scawen, all I personally want is to hear something from you every couple of months

Also, for LFS being apparently dying, this isn't bad

Quote from Scawen :I said something because I had something to say, not because I was forced to. I am quite immune to the moaning that goes on, it doesn't disturb me much at all - it's just what happens on forums. And there are many people here with a perfect understanding of what we are doing, and they do explain it to others round here sometimes.

For a long time there was nothing to say, with some half developed tyre physics and unfinished AI drivers. When I had something to say, I said it. Hope you understand, as many others do!

It's up to Eric what of his work gets released, never have I tried to stop something of his being released!

Thanks for the comments, its nice that you comment now and then, even if you dont have anything to tell us, we do care about you all. Well done for the good work.
Been away for a while , was chuffed to see a report . Great to see that they are still at it.

Keep at it chaps ...gotta be the home straight by now



Oh and I agree with Jason , a little update every couple of months would be nice . Dont have to be much , just a paragraph or so .
Quote from Scawen :
Quote from rc10racer :I don't think Eric's work rate is the issue because no one has a clue how fast he can make tracks/cars without him telling us, my opinion is that Eric has plenty of work that could be made public but the final decision ends with Scawen on what gets released.

It's up to Eric what of his work gets released, never have I tried to stop something of his being released!

This I think was a brilliant answer from Scawen.

Rc10racer suggests that Scawen is in charge of what gets released.
Scawen answers by saying that he has never tried to stop anything of Erics from being released.
People on here start making assumptions that this means that Eric has nothing to release and has done nothing.

Consider this,

What if Scawen has never had to stop Eric because Eric hasn't wanted to release?
What if they work as a team and they are working to an agreed plan that they will release together?
What if all Scawen was actually saying was "I'm not the boss, please stop assuming I am"
What if they have a good laugh between them about "one angry post Eric" and Scawen was just adding a little fuel to the fire?

All or none of the above may be true. You can probably count all the people that do know the truth with your fingers.
Quote from Scawen :I think it will be a case of "where to draw the line".

I think this is the key point. No game physics is never going to truly emulate real life, so developers need to "draw the line" at some point when it's close enough. Scawen has spent about 1 1/2 years probably trying and abandoning various approaches only to run into issues that occur when driving at the limits, and having to start over again with yet another approach. The lack of real world data for various types of tires and cars under various real world conditions isn't helping either.

Racing cars (and street cars during development) are often instrumented (temperature sensors for tire surfaces, sensors (acceleration and position) placed on every moving part of the chassis and suspension, then taken to test or race tracks to gather data, but this data is seldom released to game developers, so at best, the game developers manage to get some data for perhaps just a few cars.

iRacing has also gone through it's growing pains in terms of physics and car parameter tweaks, in spite of it's huge team and budget, for example, the excessive engine braking effect on the spec racer Ford, causing it to spin at even a hint of lift throttle in turns was fixed about a year after release.

In the end, the differences between the sim oriented games, for example iRacing versus Live For Speed, will be a difference in "feel", as opposed a difference in "realism".

We can only hope that "drawing the line" will translate into an update for LFS sometime later this year.
Quote from Scawen :
When I had something to say, I said it.

Which makes perfect sense. If people don't understand simple logic as this - then well.... how do they understand anything at all.

Quote from Scawen :
It's up to Eric what of his work gets released, never have I tried to stop something of his being released!

That's awesome - basically - each developer has control over there own work independent from each other - while still being dependent on each other at the same time.

I can somewhat back this up for noobs that probably still think otherwise:
I had sent a email to the dev's before asking about permission for use of certain textures... the response was this:
Quote :
We would like to request permission to use LFS ... textures ... for our opensource game project.

Quote :
Hello,

I have asked Eric Bailey who spend a lot of time on the textures, but he does not grant permission for you to use them I'm afraid. Sorry we cannot be of any help,

Victor van Vlaardingen

Understandable - ( I was hoping to spend less time working on RollcageX textures - and more on models - I don't enjoy texturing so much - because I'm not very good at it ) * sulk

- in the end I'm still stuck doing both modelling and texturing - ( AT RollcageX- I am pretty much the only art related team member atm )




btw - we need a texture artist to help me lighten my work load....


Quote :

What if Scawen has never had to stop Eric because Eric hasn't wanted to release?

Are 'you' assuming that eric does nothing

- when for the first time - he is using actual laser scanned track data from the first 'real' track in LFS.

- attention do detail can take a hell of lot of work - especially when Eric wants to achieve 'absolute' accuracy as much as he can - as should be assumed from any 3D artist, track designer, level editor.

- In LFS there is only ONE ERIC --- in other games there are often 5 Bob-the-level-designers, 7 Mike-the-prop-modelers, 8 Tiffany-the-go-for-girl's etc....

Quote :

What if all Scawen was actually saying was "I'm not the boss, please stop assuming I am"

What if he is?
Quote :
What if they have a good laugh between them about "one angry post Eric" and Scawen was just adding a little fuel to the fire?

Then we will all have a good laugh too....
Codie, I agree with you.

The point of my post was that you can't just decide there is only one possibility from Scawen's single line about Eric. I'm not the best at getting my thoughts down in words. It was pointed at the "Oh so that means eric has done nothing then" posts.

I sit firmly in the "will wait patiently still enjoying this great sim, wouldn't have a clue how to do my own, believe they are still working because they tell us they are" camp.
Thanks for the heads up Scawen, it's always nice to see a developper pop here !

I will enjoy the game while waiting. Something I really like with LFS is that it never grows old and still looks fresh after you've not played for a long time.

And devs, you can be really proud of the long timers moaning on the forums. It means that not only you managed to create a product that still compels drivers for 5+ years, but it also means they are very involved with the product.

Keep up the good work, we're all going to party when you guys decide to release what you've been working on !
I got a question.

What exactly are we getting in S3? A new car, and Rockingham. Is that enough content to pay another 12 pounds for?

In S2 we got 3 venues, and 11 new cars.

Dont get me wrong, I will buy S3 the minute its released, but I personally think its a bit too little for the long awaited S3.

Hopefully the devs have something else planned for it. Really hope Eric is working on another venue. Else, S3 will feel very empty and the whiners will be back couple months after the release. You can count on that.

Anyways, I'll put on my flame suit now because I heard it be raining fanboys.
This thread is closed

[OLD] Tyre Physics Progress Report
(4443 posts, closed, started )
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