The online racing simulator
Progress Report December 2011
(551 posts, closed, started )
Quote from SennaSS :... ive driven a nissan gtr so dont think you can get any closer than that my friend its damn fast and NOTHING like what we drive on Lfs :P

just to clear it up, it was a computer that drove the car - not you xP
Quote from SennaSS :thats bec you had some brave sole get in this....so now they understand Lift and could then do the maths... http://www.google.co.uk/imgres ... 2,s:0&tx=70&ty=72

Erm, ok firstly the Wright Brothers flew 7 years previously, and secondly they didn't exactly use a computer simulation to build it.....

My point (which, yet again in this thread you have completely missed as you did with Joe and Tomba) is that you can create an incredibly realistic simulation of an aircraft before it's even built, using maths and physics. You're not just creating a model you don't know about, but you're using the results to refine your model of something you've never made. You don't need to know what the behaviour should be in the end because if you follow the physics, it'll happen anyway
#405 - kdo
This thread is a report about the tyre phisic. THIS ISNT a thread for talk about your stupid life!
I know who first flew it was just a lovly little pic i stumbled across

See even scawn understands that to create somthing first you must try it yourself.. good on him. he is obviously not foolish enough to think he can create somthign without trying it first

thats also probly why the Fbm is very similar to real life not perfect but great to drive in the sim... maybe bec he knew what it ha dto feel like
#407 - CSF
Quote from SennaSS :yeah and its why i changed cars to somthing easier on tyres & it wasnt set up at all it was the car .

Still Im not ranting just saying you cant create somthing without knowing what its like to do in real life...

& actually Boothy ive driven a nissan gtr so dont think you can get any closer than that my friend its damn fast and NOTHING like what we drive on Lfs :P

Did you drive it like you do LFS?
Quote from CSF :Did you drive it like you do LFS?

haha well if you mean push it to the limit ... Damn right i did
Quote from SennaSS :haha well if you mean push it to the limit ... Damn right i did

& guess what the tyres didnt get red hot and suddenly burst or anything like that
Quote from SennaSS :so your telling me a developer can create a sim using physics without ever having done what he is trying to create?! & that is why sims are so unreal

Have you seen the video where Scavier spends one day with FBM car/team and drives around it umpteen times, before they start developing the FBM? And probably they even consult the FBM guys in various stages of development, so you cant' declare that devs are just reading old books and just starting to develop a sim blindly.
Quote from rageshgr :Have you seen the video where Scavier spends one day with FBM car/team and drives around it umpteen, before they start developing the FBM? And probably they even consult the FBM guys in various stages of development, so you cant' declare that devs are just reading old books and just starting to develop a sim blindly.

Well if you think, the amount of time it took them to make the FBM which is arguably harder to code and design than a hot hatch, and yet the FBM didn't take 3 years.
Quote from S14 DRIFT :Well if you think, the amount of time it took them to make the FBM which is arguably harder to code and design than a hot hatch, and yet the FBM didn't take 3 years.

They were re-creating FBM, not tyre physics.
Quote from S14 DRIFT :Well if you think, the amount of time it took them to make the FBM which is arguably harder to code and design than a hot hatch, and yet the FBM didn't take 3 years.

That is a whole new discussion. Actually yours is a question which has been in mind too. My question is, how come the tyre physics limitations did not surface during the development of the 5-6 real cars, but it surfaced during the development of Sirocco. Probably it was in a slow road car like Sirocco, with ESP perhaps that the limitations of the current tire physics was more pronounced and exposed. Probably they started using some new testing techniques which were never used before, which exposed the limitations of the current tyre physics. The development of Sirocco, is waiting for new tyre physics and that is the main reason why it is getting late.
Quote from SennaSS :
BUT

The tyre pyhsics are the major issue, In real life you can push to the limit and understeer oversteer ect & not overheat the tyres BUt on lfs you drive like say Hamilton and you get punished for pushing the limits of grip. which is NOT how racing drivers really drive.. a real racing driver pushes and pushes until he feels the car slide and thats why i get so frustrated with lfs you push and you get (red) tyres

First, know before you talk... At various races in this year, Hamilton had tire overheating problems...

How he avoided this? Changed the way how he drive.
In real life races, you rarely drives in the limit. You need to save tires and fuel, so you will be constant, not fast.

Second, there is a reason why Scawen is doing new tire physics... The overheating problem is not new, Scawen found it and is working on new tire physics to fix that problem...

Third, the overheating problem is not so big when you can control the car... If you are a bad driver, you will overheat tires and lose control quickly, but you practice, you will handle the temperature and car easily and naturally...
wow!
you guy's are talking a lot of bullcrap...
don't see how the beheavior of the majority of you will help with the development and long-life that we all expect to see in LFS!
I sincerely hope that Scawen don't take these offensive post's seriously!


ps: Again, sorry about my bad english.

www.gridlfs.com.br
Quote from Sobis :They were re-creating FBM, not tyre physics.

I know that I would rather own a Scirocco TSI with budget tyres than wait for 3 years for the garage to put a set of Goodyear F1 ASD2's on.

I also know about the ESP system in VW's as my car has exactly the same system. It applies brakes to all 4 corners independently in the event of a slide. It can act as a electronic diff when accelerating around corners (in the dry it works quite well, in the wet you'd just understeer) although that was not what it's designed for. Even with the system disabled the ESP is in a passive mode where it will still try to take steps to keep you safe.

It reads wheel speed, slip angle, steering angle, throttle position, there are lots of parameters it reads and computers to calculate what to do.

Now compared to the TC system that LFS already has, there is not a massive amount of difference aside from the wheel braking and he background calculations.

All I know is that they should have released the Scirocco - kept people happy with the release, even if it was not 100%, it would have been 95-98% finished aside from the ESP and the tyre models which would affect all cars anyway. If they had released the Scirocco it would keep the community happy for 6 months to a year at the very least, look how long the FBM effect lasted, people were very happy for over a year!

So if the Dev's reasoning is not wanting to release the Scirocco because of the lack of updated tyre physics, why don't the devs stop all the existing cars being used? After all, if their "baby" (as in the game, the LFS Project) needs to be perfect they already have imperfect cars driving around so the release of a car which is physically, at worst, the same as what's already there, what's the reason for withholding the car.

Either VW pulled the support which wouldn't have surprised me, or it's not ready, or the Dev's are really thinking people will hang around waiting for a SINGLE CAR which is already a few years late (and for which the real life life next-gen model will be out, probably before the original one is released in a game).

As for overheating tyres in LFS, I never had a problem except when I ran aggressive qualifying setups (designed for a couple of laps) over extended races when racing at close to WR times (CTRA brings back good memories, me, NickC, inferno boys, a lot of good racing back then).
Quote from Si Mclaren :First, know before you talk... At various races in this year, Hamilton had tire overheating problems...

How he avoided this? Changed the way how he drive.
In real life races, you rarely drives in the limit. You need to save tires and fuel, so you will be constant, not fast.

Second, there is a reason why Scawen is doing new tire physics... The overheating problem is not new, Scawen found it and is working on new tire physics to fix that problem...

Third, the overheating problem is not so big when you can control the car... If you are a bad driver, you will overheat tires and lose control quickly, but you practice, you will handle the temperature and car easily and naturally...

http://www.google.com/search?q ... amilton+overheating+tyres

From http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/15036065.stm

Quote :"Looking at the TV and the times, everyone is going to struggle with tyres in the race. It seems everyone is overheating tyres after only three laps."

Quote from SennaSS :thats bec you had some brave sole get in this....so now they understand Lift and could then do the maths... http://www.google.co.uk/imgres ... 2,s:0&tx=70&ty=72

In the early days, that was true. In the last 30 years, not really.

Today, when a new plane model climbs up into the real sky for the first time, the overall design is already set. The test pilot can only help to fine tune the plane's dynamics. It doesn't make much sense if the pilot tells the engineers to do fundamental changes to their work.

Air dynamics theory, data from existing models and computer simulation (plus a little talent) do the designing job now.
Y so complex?
i love this kind of thread!
SennaSS are you just pretending to be stupid or you really are? The grass growing in our garden is smarter than you dude.
It's pretty obvious LFS is a hobby for all the 3 devs. Scawen has a family, who needs a paying job to sustain. With the amount of people on servers and knowing that most of them are oldschoolers it's pretty doubtful the money divided by 3 is enough for anything.

Eric releases content as slow as possible, in no way would this be a full time job, or else he'd be the slowest worker ever. Victor i have no ideia, but he cant do that much developing on LFS content by himself (which seems mostly Scawens and Eric's job), and with his programming skills he should have no trouble finding a good paying job.

All in all, i would expect a very slow release of content, or even a halt, if they give up on LFS for some other sim at the future surpassing them by far in physics, which is what they seem to value most.

LFS is still fun to drive, while there are people in the servers, but it's sad to see a game we all love and spent some much time of our life with just stop in time. I'm not really counting on it moving much more forward than this. Better just to forget LFS exists, come to this forum in a year and see what happened (if anything) .
Quote from LiveForBoobs :It's pretty obvious LFS is a hobby for all the 3 devs. Scawen has a family, who needs a paying job to sustain. With the amount of people on servers and knowing that most of them are oldschoolers it's pretty doubtful the money divided by 3 is enough for anything.

Eric releases content as slow as possible, in no way would this be a full time job, or else he'd be the slowest worker ever. Victor i have no ideia, but he cant do that much developing on LFS content by himself (which seems mostly Scawens and Eric's job), and with his programming skills he should have no trouble finding a good paying job.

All in all, i would expect a very slow release of content, or even a halt, if they give up on LFS for some other sim at the future surpassing them by far in physics, which is what they seem to value most.

LFS is still fun to drive, while there are people in the servers, but it's sad to see a game we all love and spent some much time of our life with just stop in time. I'm not really counting on it moving much more forward than this. Better just to forget LFS exists, come to this forum in a year and see what happened (if anything) .

Didn't scawen quit his job for LFS or something?
Yes but that was a very very very long time ago.
His fulltime job now is to produce babies.
This thread is closed

Progress Report December 2011
(551 posts, closed, started )
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