Quote from NotAnIllusion :

No love for Southern Cross Racing? Sarsippius, chaz, scottie. The team that first got me interested in following leagues in LFS.

It's kinda funny to come back here and see my name mentioned although this post is now 4 years old

I'm surprised how many of the old names I still recognise from back in the day.

The memory is hazy now 15 years on but I first got into the Demo I think sometime just prior to or just after S1 and was very active for around 5 years. The aussie community back then was great with many teams, many great races and rivalries. Some of us are still kicking around on arseforums.com I'm sure some will remember ARSE from the RSC days.

I will always have fond memories of LFS but after 5 years and few updates it lost the appeal it once had and iRacing came out and I never looked back. There have been a few breaks but I'm still racing every week over there. I was never an alien capable of WRs but I do ok for myself.

I came back here and did some races about 4 years ago when I got a DK2 and iRacing hadn't implemented VR support yet. It was fun but unfortunately LFS can't really offer much at all anymore in comparison.

Anyway hi to anyone who I used to know or race against and who may still remember who I am

My name is Duane Burns for anyone who is on iRacing and may know me from over there

Quote from Whiskey :

They have a button to switch off, you know?

lol yeah I honestly thought it might cause some issues but trying that today it worked fine. In Titans of Space which uses direct to rift mode when my screen saver came on the monitor it locked Titans up.

Anyway I experimented a bit more today with v-sync etc and v-sync on actually works pretty well overall. Everything is smooth with just the odd little skip or judder. I think the main problem I had initially is actually that 75Hz isn't quite high enough for me, I can notice the overall slight stutter like I would on a monitor at 75fps. Usually in iRacing I need at least 90fps or thereabouts for everything to seem perfectly smooth so I think that is the issue for me with v-sync on. It would actually be usable for me but just not as seamless as v-sync off and unlimited fps.

I also tested v-sync off but with the fps limit and I think I experienced the tearing that Scawen was talking about. The lower the limit the worse it seemed to get. It would be interesting to be able to have more fine control on the fps limit and slowly increase and find the point where the tearing stops.

Overall I think what adrianstealth said is about right, if you can get high fps (I don't seem to ever go below 150 fps) then the best experience is with v-sync off and no fps limit. Otherwise v-sync on works well.

Quote from Scawen :

It's strange how the lag with vertical sync can vary between computers. I'm quite sure this is not a personal thing, but a hardware (or drivers) thing. On my computer (with nvidia graphics) and many others, there is a seemingly perfect prediction (provided by the Oculus SDK) for vertical sync, avoiding any perceptible lag. Without vertical sync there is noticeable tearing which I don't believe anyone could describe as "better". So it seems there is quite a bit of hardware variation.

I should mention that I have not noticed any screen tearing at all with v-sync off. I might try and have more of a play around this evening testing different options. It does seem to be hardware dependant, for some v-sync works well and they get tearing with it off or v-sync doesn't work well but no tearing with it off.
I have read some people saying the refresh rate of your monitor can cause some of this judder but I don't think mine goes up to 75Hz. I actually wouldn't mind some way to have my monitor sleep whilst in the rift, seems a bit of a waste of energy and even LCDs can develop some image persistence over long periods.

Hi Scawen,

Just some of my experience so far, I have found that v-sync off and not limiting the frame rate gives me the best results in terms of positional tracking. Using either v-sync or having the frame rate limited to the default of 100fps introduces noticeable judder or stuttering when moving my head.

I checked the driver settings and the only option for triple buffering, 'OpenGL Triple Buffering' is set to off. This is for an AMD HD7870.

I seem sensitive to any discrepancy with the positional tracking, with v-sync on or fps limited after a few minutes I start to feel uncomfortable vs a couple 1.5 hrs sessions with v-sync off and unlimited fps.

I also noticed when joining an online session, on the screen that's shown when skins are downloading just before entering the session I get very bad judder.
Finally one of the hosts I was on would display a number of messages in large text of different colours as the grid was set each race which introduced some mild judder until the text disappeared.

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Well I don't really want to fork out on a skippy and tracks at the moment, and the advanced solstice doesn't interest me much because it will just be battle of the best setup in an already boring car.

Setup means very little and they're very easy to get anyway, the Advanced is also 10 times nicer to drive than the Rookie with none of the annoying understeer.
It really boggles my mind how many people stick to the Rookie version, it just doesn't make any sense

Well the handlebars should turn into the corner, I guess it's simply whether some initial opposite lock is used to initiate it or not.

Some of you guys can't be running very high resolutions, my 6600GT was pretty good for my old 22" at 1680x1050, stable 40-50fps with mid range fsaa and af. It just couldn't cut it with the new 24" at 1920x1200, the 7600GT I tried for a while was an improvement but it's only now with an 8800GT that I get a rock solid 50fps at all times with all in game settings, fsaa and af maxed.
If your going to mention what settings you use you should really also mention the resolution.

One thing I've noticed with LFS is that a stable fps is more important than a high one, a stable fps of 50 will be smoother than one that fluctuates between 70 & 80 fps say, well to my eyes at least. I always limit the fps in LFS to avoid this and wonder if this effect is why some people feel LFS isn't as smooth as some other games.

Quote from Polyracer :

Hmmm! outspoken eh?
Don't you think the devs thought long and hard about this before implementing the changes? - you reckon they're thinking maybe "hey guys we made a mistake here, lets change it back again", I doubt it.

Sure I've not been here for more than a few weeks, but the reason I like the sim and am likely to stay is because I can see where they are going with this -and I don't think that Keyboard joypad or stick users are the priority, do you?

I'm in business too - and have been for almost forty years, I have never gone back on a decision I made - because I thought long and hard about the cosequences before I made those decisions.

I reckon that the LFS devs do the same, - I see this sim getting harder and more realistic as time goes by, and most peeps here seem to think so too.
You may always be able to play the game with compromised controllers, but ultimately it will be the wheel users that will always be the priority, and in a simulation, thats how it should be.

Well I can't remember the specifics anymore but I'm certain that the devs have gone back on certain decisions they have made in the past. It's also quite possible that given the timeframe and the well known fact that Scawen was under a deadline with this patch that removing auto-blip altogether may have been done as a quick fix (especially considering that joystick users are not a priority). No one here knows otherwise and if they do they are probably unable to comment. Do I think it's likely auto-blip will return for single axis users? No, but it is possible. FCV is a perfect example of something the devs have implemented quickly to later be refined, hell the examples of this sort of thing in LFS are too numerous to list.

@ Woz, please stop making comparisons between this issue and the old version of keyboard help. The two issues are so far removed in almost every aspect. Also note that keyboard aid still exists but in a form where it doesn't provide for an unfair advantage, this is all some of us would like to see with auto-blip for single axis users only.

On a side note, why am I not surprised that it is forum regulars spamming off topic posts in this thread. This is something along with shouting down and attacking those with opinions that supposedly aren't in line with the devs mythical "vision" that turn people away from participating in this community. Ever notice how the majority of the established aussie community doesn't post here at all? This is because we have somewhere else where we can discuss our concerns (or lack of them) with LFS in a civilised manner without being attacked, accused of being nothing more than a whiner, incorrectly being branded arcade racers or accused of trying to turn LFS into an arcade game.

Edit: Just to be clear I have been a clutch user in LFS since S1 days and as such feel that the latest patch is possibly the single greatest patch made to LFS to date. It has done more to improve the level of realism in regards to racing than any other outside of the tyre physics patch and S2 itself. However certain small things I disagree with and I will post my opinion on these things if I so wish.

Last edited by tailing, Thu 10 Jan 2008, 08:52.

Quote from Polyracer :

How can it be a controller issue, when it is how the devs intended the cars to be realistically driven?

Your assuming that is the devs intention, for all we know it was a quick fix and they already plan to re-implement auto-blip for people without separate axis for throttle/brake (unless I missed a specific statement from the devs otherwise). It's a worrying trend lately that some outspoken members of the community feel they have somehow become an authority on why the devs do what they do.
The reason I don't see it as a realism issue is because it's obviously not realistic for someone to use a joystick to play LFS. To then argue auto-blip is not a realistic option for what is already an unrealistic controller is bordering on the absurd.
Joystick users can't blip the throttle themselves so I don't have a problem if they are allowed a specific aid to do this for them as long as it's not so effective that it gives an unfair advantage.

I don't see the problem in allowing auto-blip for combined axis users only, it's a controller option, not a realism issue in my opinion.
We are also free to question the devs about their decisions in a reasonable manner as JeffR has done and they have shown they are quite reasonable in listening to and considering community feedback.

I mainly use cockpit, tv and chase view. Chase view more for analysing incidents rather than the aesthetics.

Well we have fcv these days so lets just leave it at that shall we. The supposed realism freaks can stroke their egos over just how hardcore they are by sticking to fcv servers and others can still do their thing with marginally less realistic views if they so choose.
Removing chase view etc. from the game completely would be a bad move allround but I think the devs realise this and are unlikely to do it.
In the end it's physics which dictate how realistic LFS is and not which driving view anyone uses.

Edit: Cockpit view user btw

Well maybe for drifters but the clutch heat is definitely a huge improvement as far as racing is concerned. This is from someone who has used a clutch in LFS for more than three years now and to put it simply it's far more realistic overall now than it has ever been.
I'm all for finding a balance between realism and playability but the situation before this patch simply wasn't it. It would be nice if LFS could include some difficulty levels though where some things like clutch heat are disabled. Mainly for new drivers but also for those who simply prefer it without.

Quote from Michael Denham :

I spent quite a bit of time recently driving the RAC, which I'm enjoying more now than in the past. It still has its quirks of course, but they're not quite as apparent as they were in the past. But then going to the LX4 from the RAC, wow. Wonderful. None of that turn in understeer, it'll go just where you point it, and on the exit it's easy to get the tail out a little to help rotate the car. Just does exactly what you want, I now remember why I love this car so much! I spent some time with the LX6 again after the LX4 and it's certainly a rush, feels good putting the power down, but overall I think the LX4 is a more balanced and fun machine on the limit. The power doesn't overwhelm the chassis, and you can just make it dance.

I feel the same way, I've always preferred the LX4 to the LX6 and it's one of the reasons I've never really cared about the possibility of an LX8. The LX4 is just so well balanced, you can really throw it around and it responds so well.
However I grabbed the BL1 setup for the LX6 that Axus posted in his thread about locked diffs and it was a lot nicer to drive than any I've tried previously. My theory is that most setups are hampered by attempting to tame its power but this setup felt more like the LX4.

When I just had a look at the new layout (nice btw) I thought the old pb's were to remain but thats no big deal if they get overwritten by new ones.
Just a question though, I think some of my pb's are even from S1 days, RB4 at SO Long for instance as I remember it being a bit of a big deal cracking the two minute mark. Would this be right that even S1 pb's were still there till now?

I can't see much reason why throttle blip shouldn't be allowed for those with a combined throttle and brake axis. It's not feasible to expect them to be able to do this themselves.

The biggest difference I've noticed is braking for T1, there's not as much track between the crest and the apex as there used to be. Overall I really like the improved layout :up:

One for the aussies, being wrecked by Gazzz

I also remember goop being banned from RSC

No big deal really

Yeah I've tried some of your LX4 setups before axus and quite liked them. I can't stand setups with really locked diffs, I find they just understeer way too much on both corner entry and exit. However I don't really know enough about setups to adjust the suspension on one that's setup for a locked diff.

As another long time racer I know what you are talking about Fordman, maybe it's nostalgia but LFS did have something in the S1 days that it is definitely lacking now. However I could see it coming even back then so I guess I've come to accept it. I still kinda remember just how totally odd I found it the first time someone requested forced cockpit view for LFS and I've been against it ever since (and probably overstepped the line a touch voicing my opinion when it was introduced). Talk about whining though, people have been whining for that one for years and years.

Personally though I feel this is one of the best patches we've had with LFS for the major physics improvements. Being a long time clutch user I guess I have a different point of view, whilst I accepted it I did find it a bit annoying that people could drive road cars like they were a formula1 car, flatshifting and shifting gears almost instantaneously. Now I feel like the racing in LFS has improved due to the more realistic technique that's required which has added a new very important dynamic to the racing.

So while I do think some of these things do remove that pick up and play element that was so good in S1 I think many of them have definitely improved LFS. I just wish the devs would stick to the improvements that increase realism in a meaningful way and forget those that are trivial and inconsequential like fcv and removing digital speedos. These things do help in losing this fun factor in my opinion and for no discernable benefit to the game as a whole (omg did I just call LFS a game? Surely I jest?).

Quote from Hyperactive :

Not trying to spit on the latest update but the clutch heat is really really small realism update.

The clutch heat has done more to improve the realism in LFS than things like removing digital speedo, fcv et al will ever do! The improvements to clutch, engine inertia and gear shifting have made the racing in LFS more realistic than any patch I can remember. Not since the release of S2 with such things as tyre heat and wear has there been such an improvement.

Removing digital speedo has done nothing for LFS, personally it has no impact on me with a 24" widescreen monitor but many people obviously have issues being able to read the analogue gauges.

It also seems that nowadays no one actually remembers what whining means. Try to say anything that may be construed as negative and/or unrealistic and suddenly your a whinging arcade racer.

Honestly if your having problems then your doing something wrong. I just spent another couple hours racing the bmw online and the clutch is coolest at the end of the race and this is pushing hard. The only time I've got it to slip was when deliberately abusing it just to test what some of you are saying.
I've used a clutch in LFS for a long time and it's finally just about right, coupled with the other engine/gear shifting improvements this patch has lifted the level in terms of realistic racing in LFS

I drove the FBM for probably an hour this afternoon and I never suffered from clutch slipping once.

Maybe the FZR remains with the h-shifter because it's rear engined. I imagine rear engined cars do have sequential boxes as well but maybe it's not as common, just thinking aloud here.