Quote from dadge :

i think i'll unsubscribe from this thread again.

I bet you don't, the temptation will be too much.

Quote from dadge :

a few times since 2008?

Quote from dadge :

also, if we include those few offline races, would you say that 99% of your LFS activity is/was online?

Post 08, I've exclusively played offline as AU LFS scene slumped. Pretty simple really, nothing sinister or some greater agenda. After all I've been here since day 1 and at RSC before that and my online playing habits have pretty much matched the rises and falls of LFS development.

You seem fixated on a point that really is irrelevant. S2 was released mid 05 and we haven't seen a major content update since then. If you think that's okay... Great... But clearly from the evidence in this thread and countless others before it, many aren't and I doubt they care for any of this pointless debate of acceptable playing habits.

Quote from dadge :

ok, try and have a 32 car race. offline. it's an online racing sim. it's in the title. also, have you ever had an epic battle in LFS? offline?

Yes a few times at LAN parties as it's more conducive to a lag free experience.

Quote from cargame.nl :

Because you interfere with my hobby, thats why.

How exactly?

Quote from dadge :

...it's about you asking for more when you've tried so little.

With all due respect, he hasn't been asking for content. So the beef you have with him is really redundant.

The idea that it's NOT possible to experience all the content offline is nonsense. Clearly every combo is available online and offline.

If you were to say you haven't tried every aspect of LFS, until you've played x races online, maybe there's a degree of validity to that. But what's the threshold?

At least in the forum people can't bite each other. :bitehard:

Last edited by Macfox, Fri, 1 Apr 2011 10:43.

When there's something else for players to focus on, like various aspects of the update.

Ninja edits LOL!...not intentional.

Not into weed, despite living in the growing capital of Australia.

If you want to conclude that players who haven't played every combo "online", can't justify asking for more content, then they fail your test. Is it a reasonable or reliable test? No. Because for what ever reason some people can't play online. Maybe you live/work in a technology back water and only have access to dial-up or satellite. Who knows, but peoples situations change and it's certainly acceptable to play off-line (else why would AI exist) and those who do shouldn't be judged.

The point I have been making, is that LFS is on the decline. Even if those that don't meet your test were to start playing online again, the opportunities of the past sadly aren't there. The only thing that will revive the LFS online participation and "hopefully" bring players/leagues back is a significant update to content.

Last edited by Macfox, Fri, 1 Apr 2011 09:16.

You have some wild imagination.

If you think that I've been telling the devs how to do their job, that's you're opinion and I'm fine with that. Doesn't worry me the slightest.

Live in your little fantasy world, pretending to know everyone's private playing habits, if it helps you sleep better at night.

Last edited by Macfox, Fri, 1 Apr 2011 07:48.

Chill out. If you have something more credible to add to the original argument, then make your point.

People are entitled to present their view on LFS. If you don't agree fine, but trying to somehow discredit others whom you disagree with, by making obvious assumptions and judgements on their playing habits doesn't help your cause.

Last edited by Macfox, Fri, 1 Apr 2011 07:21.

If you take a minute to read some of farcar's past posts you'd see he isn't the stereo type you've label him as.

Quote from dadge :

that only explains the past 3 years. but the numbers on your profile would say you were a well below casual user. i mean, you only finished 408 races in the time from the launch of S2 (LFS Desktop(2005)) and 04 Jul '08. that's about 136 races per year. that breaks down to you finishing 1 race every 2.7 days for 3 years.
now that's keen.
so it's ok for you to tell the devs how to do their job. but when someone tells you to do something, there's a problem. one post isn't an indication on my keenness either. it wasn't a judgement either. it was a simple observation i made.
there is no threshold, but if you're going to bitch about something, the least you can do is use more than 10% of it's potential before you do.

Judgement or observation, it really doesn't matter. It comes off as cheap talk.

You assuming everyone plays on line and ignores other factors (which might not be as obvious to EU based players), but don't let that get in the way of discrediting anyone that dares to disagree with you PoV.

Quote from dadge :

your post was based on nothing but assumptions.

The irony is sting my eyes.... LOL!

Last edited by Macfox, Fri, 1 Apr 2011 03:36.

Quote from farcar :

What I find funny is the assumption that if you're not playing on line, then you're not playing.

Agreed.

Personally LFS competitions at LANs with a live TV projected for others to view and where drivers can interact beats online any day. It's amazing how clean driver race when you are in punching distance.

Quote from dadge :

LFSworld shows the last time you were on a server was 2008. if only you were as eager to race as you are to moan... looking at your stats, you've hardly played LFS. since LFS Desktop began, this is what you've got under your belt.
Last race information: (16:25 - 04 Jul '08)
Travelled distance: 7552 Ml
Fuel burnt: 5227 Ltr
Laps: 2759
Hosts joined: 254
Races won: 52
Second: 66
Third: 73
Finished: 408

if only Rfactor servers had users like you, the servers would be empty, but the forum would be full.

Yep that's right, haven't played online since AU LFS scene took a nose dive. I now only play at LANs.

Since you are so keen to judge other LFS users online participation, perhaps you would enlighten us to what the threshold is that you deem acceptable to "moan"?

Quote from dadge :

one thing i've noticed is that if you don't claim LFS to be dead, then you're labelled a fanboy.

You can't have it both ways. Either you a moaner or a fanboy. No fence sitting. Sorry that's the rules.

Last edited by Macfox, Fri, 1 Apr 2011 02:48.

You missed the fanboy memo and the attached code of LFS forum ethics?

Don't worry I missed it too.

This old argument again

Seriously, people are willing to pay for content at this stage. May be that's the plan

Quote from Paulovic :

Track-wise and car-wise the game does not need more combinations.

You must be new here.

Quote from tristancliffe :

What attracted me to LFS was not that it was 'different' (that was a bonus), but it was the first racing game I played that felt like a real car to drive. And that was during the very imperfect S1 days. I have yet to play anything that feels so realistic, with the possible exception of netKar Pro in some, but not all, circumstances.

I agree. 'Different' it encompasses all these. Nothing remotely came close the LFS.

Quote from tristancliffe :

LFS doesn't need lots of cars and tracks to be successful. It doesn't need the best graphics. It doesn't need the most accurate tracks in the world. Those things are for bigger, more expensive sims and games, with bigger teams of people. LFS has never tried to compete with that, because it's a 3-man team set up because they wanted to get away from big teams, corporate deadlines and all the stuff that goes with big-time game development. That's why they don't want to hire more staff, or use community help, because ultimately Scawen would have to manage people, which he doesn't want to do.

Sure it doesn't need GT5 scale cars and the vast majority don't expect that, but there are many categories that aren't catered for currently.

Why would you have to manage people with community help with content? The time and effort involved wouldn't be any more than what is currently done with InSim.

Besides... The bulk of complaints are about stale content. Scawen has made his reason clear, which you have pointed out, but the reasons behind the lack of content updates is a real mystery. Most are happy to wait for physics updates. Having multiple content developers doesn't pose the same management and technical challenges as with code development. The reasons for not releasing more content have never been made clear, mainly due to the recluse nature of Eric.

Quote from tristancliffe :

LFS is all about the physics. They are its raison d'être. Get them right - and huge teams are unlikely to help with this, as traditionally tyre physics have been a one-man show even in massive software companies - and people will come and play. They might not show it off to their friends, who generally like to be impressed with graphics and sounds and features. They might not play it for 'fun', as realistic is rarely 'fun' on a computer. But they will buy it, play it, and probably take it seriously.

Sure it's one of the big selling points, but alone it means little with the mechanisms (as in content) to experience it, much like having a motor without the car.

What evidence backs up generalising tyre physics is traditionally a one-man show?

Quote from tristancliffe :

Sadly, the drifting and cruising part of the community tend to cast a poor light over the whole scene, even though some drifters and cruisers are wonderful, intelligent and capable people - the masses of those groups are not. They are chavvy, stupid, and have as much skill as a mole on a unicycle. They don't take it seriously, and they don't care as much about physics as about smoke, drift angles (no matter how unrealistic), and stickers on back-to-front.

But there's plenty of people here that are happy to use them a reference, that LFS is going strong and there's nothing to worry about.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Can you blame Scawen for becoming a recluse here? People moan about progress reports and progress itself. When he does create a patch or write a report, people initially thank him, and within a day they are moaning again about promises that were never made. You might say the problems are self made, but I don't think they are. Scawen works how he works, at a pace that suits his life and his goals. Standard business models don't apply. The customer is not always right. He has no obligations to provide one more character of code to anyone. The trouble is that the community moan and moan and moan and complain and swear and become really rather rude (excessively, given that this is just a computer game and doesn't actually matter in the slightest). If people spoke to me about my passion like that, then I'd not want to talk to them either. Why give the morons and bullys that 'know best' the time of day. It won't shut them up.

Promises, expectations, whatever. To say the community created this problem is just plain wrong. This may seem harsh, but you reap what you sow. Seeds were planted and it wasn't managed at all. Credits to Scawen, he has since admitted this, but you have to dig around in the forum to get a reasonable perspective of where LFS is.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Of course, the moaners don't think of themselves as moaners. They see themselves as soothsayers - bringers of truth to the community about how shit Scawen is as a person and how poor LFS is in terms of polygon counts compared to Monsters Inc. They probably won't even realise I'm referring to them here. They want want want, and are unable to understand or accept the very premise that LFS is built on - Scawen's will to work how he wants to work rather than how other people want him to work.

Every forum has them, but just because their approach is immature or offensive or unreasonable, isn't grounds to ignore their complaints, which often has some basis of merit.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Until people get that they will moan. Many people here do get that, and either sit back smugly in the knowledge that they can wait or try to defend LFS (and get called fanboys in the process - one of the least intelligent arguments in the world). At the moment the moaners outnumber the supporters.

That may seem like a bad thing at face value, but if you think about it, it's really amazing that people give a f#ck enough about the game to come here and comment.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I'm not surprised Scawen keeps his distance.

The developement and engagement died off way before the so called "era of moaning" began.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Interesting how rFactor2 has only just started modelling tyre temps position, contact patches etc. They make a new game, and it's 6 years out of date before they finish it. Ha ha ha!

Only if LFS had the number of players that rFactor has, then this whole thread wouldn't exist.

Quote from JPeace :

Please stop trying to sound like Martin Luther-King. The devs do not care if the whole community disapears, it will simply reappear once S3 comes out, nothing the community can do will change when the release date will be - please cut the bs.

I love your optimism. Everyone wants to see LFS rise again, but it's very doubtful.

What everyone fails to see (excusable for those that haven't been along for the whole ride), LFS was successful because it was different. It started off way ahead of the curve, generating excitement and attracting the masses. Devs engaged the community , making regular improvements/updates and the community grew over time. This carried on for several years (2001-2005). The devs then took a break, but never returned to the same vigour of engaged/development the community become accustom too and here we are now.

The devs have have made it quite clear that they aren't going to change their ways and become even more recluse to an extent that has pretty much decided LFS fate IMO.

Sure there will be a bump in popularity with the next release (if we ever see it), but restoring the community to it's former glory will take more than just a release of S2 final or S3, especially with all the scepticism of LFS development future.

It's doubtful those who have invested time/money into developing leagues/communities and see them suffer a slow death, will make a repeat investment, without their faith being restored.

Quote from CSF :

It is quite funny though, I am informed by a reliable ginger that the My3id guys, who are doing very very well in iRacing, were described as coming originally from a "Sim that has kinda fallen off the map now" A new patch won't bring back the glory days, as the glory drivers have all left the ship and are enjoying something new. Why on earth would they return? Is there life left on planet LFS? Aye... but it's in the final stages of a terminal decline that only the eternal optimist or fan boy (or those who have not been driving much...) can see a way back. It's almost over, just smile and enjoy the end.

Last edited by Macfox, Wed, 30 Mar 2011 01:05.

Quote from csf :

see here we go again, round in circles. It feels more and more like the glorious west racing each and every day around here...

It is quite funny though, i am informed by a reliable ginger that the my3id guys, who are doing very very well in iracing, were described as coming originally from a "sim that has kinda fallen off the map now" a new patch won't bring back the glory days, as the glory drivers have all left the ship and are enjoying something new. Why on earth would they return? Is there life left on planet lfs? Aye... But it's in the final stages of a terminal decline that only the eternal optimist or fan boy (or those who have not been driving much...) can see a way back. It's almost over, just smile and enjoy the end.

+1

The same could be said for the reverse argument.

If you look back to S1 and S2 release, there was plenty of announcements, videos and screenshots of pending content. Apparently we're approaching S2 final (S3 alpha?) and we're yet to see any evidence that substantiates any unannounced content will be released. As much as everyone hopes there is, I wouldn't hold your breath.

The Scawen has said a few times in the past that they aren't concerned with competition. Besides the two other games you've meantion both have several magnitudes more content.

Quote from Stiggie :

All these false, made-up conclusions..
Not too long ago, a thread showed up with people complaining about the lack of progress reports, not knowing what the devs are doing, and yet so many people can make up that lfs is a serious company rather than a hobby. Seriously, where do you get all this from? It's based on nothing. This whole discussion is based on made-up conclusions. ''Eric has only made 1 car and a track as new S3 content.'' Seriously, where do you people get all this information from? Scawen said Eric has been working on S3 content, does that immediately mean it's just the Scirocco and Rockingham? He might have been working on new interiors, and 5 new models, who knows? Ofcourse one of the risks of the devs not keeping the users updated, is what is happening now, blatant speculation by the users.
None of the devs ever confirmed these points. If so, and I've missed it, fair enough, but post a damn link to prove your point. It's like people just discuss to have something to do on these forums, no wonder the general LFS Discussion forum is full of nonsense.

As for the OP; time to leave LFS be for you and play something else. Come back when an update comes to find out if it's sufficient for you.
I sure as hell know it'll be for me, assuming the tire physics have dramatically changed, driving the cars will be a whole new learning experience, which is fun in my point of view. Heck, I'll still enjoy LFS for what it is at this moment.

Looking all the way back from 2001, the perspective is vastly different. It's all a matter of context. If you look only at post S2 then things might not seems as bad in some people eyes.

As you said, any comment here is really just speculation. Some comments are uniformed, or short sighted, and some are based on experience and history.

Quote from UnknownMaster21 :

Mate, you are wrong about this case.

No offence... but if you witnessed rise of LFS popularity from RSC days (circa 2001) to 2005, the overall LFS picture is vastly different. The steady decline from this point, bar the old release/update is saddening. S2 looked like it was going to turn things around and it did to a degree.But ultimately the string of uninspiring updates (some necessary and important but still uninspiring) dampened spirits and the rest is history and here we are now, clinging to drifters and cruises as evidence of LFS's popularity.

It's really hard to comprehend why they let a vivid community wither away along with the massive opportunity to take LFS mainstream.

Quote from Becky Rose :

When the new patch comes out I think a lot of old players will come back. The question is whether the new patch is good enough for most of them to stay a while. And that, more than anything, would be motivation for me to make the next patch a good one if I was developing LFS.

Unfortunately the longer this circus continues, the harder to believe any update will be good enough to revive the community, based on the evidence to date.

To me... LFS is a victim of it's own success. It's progressed from a serious business to a hobby project. Development will probably continue to limp along until funding becomes an issue and forces something to change.

If it weren't for the masses of Drifters and cruisers, LFS would be very dead.

Quote from Udris1992 :

this topic has 36 useless pages, and moaners stop moaning nothing gona happen with LFS in the future no updates nothing get use to it.

Captain obvious...Is that you?