Pope has spoken.
Can we close this now ?

nihil: maybe to see if the lights are working .

pine-fin: your move was good and fair, you have choosen a line and sticked to it, you gave the other player the chance to go outside and he/she didn't wanted, so not your problem, so in my opinion you did nothing wrong.

Quote from Polyracer :

We were/are discussing, what - if any, advantages there are when using chase view over cockpit view.

If we ignor the crap from some of the chase view guys who seem to think we want to ban the view altogether and chain them into the drivers seat and feed em on nowt but dry bread and stale water - until they learn the error of their ways........., then it does seem that in particularly in pack racing their is some advantages.

But even ignoring that, one or two have also made what to me are valued comments on the way that the view you have will also effect the way you race - in terms of what you see and how and when you react to it.

Hotlapping is something different altogether IMO, - because there is only you on track and chase view has no discernable effect on your performance or times.

I think chase view has its uses when initially learning a track (maybe), but ultimatly I think that cockpit view is the fastest view because you are more in touch with the car and track.

Do you have problems with chase viewers or bonnet/capot and wheels only view also mess with your mind ?

Cockpit view is the fastest...!!!

Quote from Polyracer :

It does not have to be a game, the racing is real, always has been, and becomes "more" realistic if you make the effort.

It all depends on your mindset, if you think of it as a game - then that is what it is (to you).
If you think of it as a simulation of a real occupation or pastime - then it can be a good substitute, I can get sweaty and nervous on the start line just as in real life, (I raced for real many years ago)

Just depends how seriously you take it.

The racing is not real...never saw a death caused by a pile up in T1.
And i find very unfair not having a play seat, 37 inch TV and FFB Wheel super duper modded + 3 pedals...
If money is not an issue for you it might be for others, you may find very realistic using the setup you have.
Others views offer car feedback for users that have mouses, some pads and keyboards...
I have experimented racing with a wheel (not mine) with chase cam, and it was a very odd feeling, completly diferent from using a keyboard for instance.

Quote from Californian :

Seems like on these forums there are lots of people who think that LFS is meant to be played like they imagine it to being meant to be played

Stop being selfish/immature and accep difference over YOUR realism. If you haven't learned anything about acceptace and diversity I really hope you will someday,
because you can't think that everyone is like you and wants the same realism as you do that eats out something that makes their game experience enjoyable

C'mon people, really

LFS has a cicle: Pre Patch whinners, Patch, Post Patch Whinners.

It's allways about something that has been taken or about something that must be taken.

Quote from Polyracer :

Still disagree,

Of course you view will change your skill, and it will also effect your decisions and when you make them.

Skill comes down to how well you execute those decisions

LOL.
You are so wrong, a bad politician will allways be bad no matter is from left, centre, right, green, anarquist, etc.
Decisions are diferent from camera, because the perspective changes, and thats all.

Quote from Polyracer :

So are you saying - that using chase cam will make up for a lack of skill?

Some will allways be bad racers no matter what camera they use.
That's what i'm trying to say, don't deviate.

Quote from JTbo :

But I would think regular chase view driver is by far minority, perhaps even as rare as we can call him exception

fujiwara, I'm talking about way of thinking, how similar thinking minds tend to choose similar methods doing things and such.

My driving license has about 10 years.
I drive everyday.
Allways drived a manual shifted car.
Sometimes attend to a track racing rented karts, yet i'm ... something here, don't even know what type of label should i get.

Quote from JTbo :

Don't you think that those who seek more realism and thus learn more and more from race craft and technicalities of driving aren't going to provide better racing against each other?

Casual players can be really nice and aware of surroundings, but still race craft is not similar to those that prefer realism.

Casual ? Racecraft ? what are you talking about...you could have hundreads of drivers in cockpit view, jst to please you that know nothing about racecraft and able to run once a month, spending more time playing Heavenly Sword on PS3 or some other game on Xbox...

The skill is something that is written on the DNA...playing/driving/simulating the hardcore way will not grant you ubber skills.

I wonder how life was before the ability to know who was driving with what cam...and i'm not talking just about follow camera, there's plenty on custom cams and wheels only cam.

Until a few months nobody knew nothing, just the usual polls would tell more about the users camera, but now it seems fine to label people.

Until everybody races with the same hardware (controllers, pc specs, internet, etc) there will be advantages and disavantages.

Guess when we will have the <feature> "Force wheel controller"....

Everyone agrees that this theads allways end in flames (not to mention the endless past discussions)...yet i'm amazed why isn't closed yet.

Quote from Doorman :

/me puts arm around Blackout's shoulder and leads him away from this pointless argument. They won't EVER see it our way but it's down to them. You're banging your head against a brick wall. Just look out for FCV servers. *cough* dMr

Your WAY or no WAY.
I really like when someone can't take the eyes of their own belly button.

Quote from Blackout :

Of course I do. Because I've learn to pay attention what is going on behind me.



Continuing from that. I can't help thinking if the view can actually have effect on how you overtake. At least I try to think if the car in front can see me. I take granted he is using cockpit view because I'm using that myself, and try to show myself according to that. But do chase view drivers think what it's like from the cockpit view? Or do they accidentally put themselfs to impossible places they can't be seen because they think from the chase view?



That should be the default chase view angle I think. I'm not sure though. But I don't understand what you mean by pushing it back more. Shouldn't you see even more like that? The other way I guess, but why would anyone use a view like that you can see more of your own car...

My main point was blind spots anyway, and I think it can be a major factor. And if you are not using the cockpit view, you are not having the LFS experience like it's meant to.

Who said follow cam's don't pay attention ? You see, i ear.
Don't tell me when you got into an accident you press the F12 key, if he's using follow, burn him, if's not he's just a normal noob ...
There's is a lot of blind spots too, a lot, that's why i mention that stupid angle, where the car is so far ahead.
What you are doing is labeling people.



The talk about real experience is rubbish, i could say the same about people using, pads, joysticks, mouses, keyboards, wheels with 2 pedals, etc.

Quote from Blackout :

Rubbish. You obviously haven't driven from cockpit view a lot have you? Especially not the FBM.

Racing is so much about knowing where your opponents are so you don't cause a crash. The attachment should prove this and how the Jesus view can be a huge advantage. To pull on the left side of the road or not is the question?

And btw, it's angle. Angels have wings, fly and play harps.



The advantage of the mirrors is debatable. If i recall correctly, the side mirrors are just the rear view mirror split in two parts (or the rear mirror is the side mirrors combined). So basically, all of us have the same mirror, yours is just floating in mid air.

I agree that all angels probly fly, but not all play harps and have wings.
At some point the car that you don't see, must have been in your MIRROR, if you can't see it no more and he's not in front of you, i'm pretty sure you know were it is.
That follow view angle is very good to make your proof, push it back, and you don't the other car too.

Quote from Polyracer :

Don't have a mental prob at all - if you want to drive your car whilst hanging from a glider that is fastened to your rear bumper - perhaps it someone else that has mental probs.

I don't give a toss how you drive your car, if you can't handle driving from the seat like most real cars are driven (really its true, honest), then that's up to you - but don't tell me that there is no advantage in driving with swingcam, you are kidding yourself - but not me.

As far as I'm concerned if you use swingcam you are playing a driving "game", like some newby ten year old, - get in the seat and sweat it out like the rest of us.

You think its harder - yeah sure it is, but at least you aint got a full face helmet restricting your view - as does your seat, and your movement aint restricted by umpteen layers of fireproof clothing, - and you aint a physical wreck after just a couple of laps of the extreme forces that a real driver is subject to.

Still don't know what is your problem ... all you bring was the game vs sim child talk again.

Don't get upset...

Quote from Polyracer :

Being able to see over the cars in front and down the next straight or around the next bend is a big advantage if you can avoid an obstruction rather than run into it.

And from a racers point of view - mirrors are handy but what is behind you don't matter, getting past you is their problem

Do you have specific problems overtaking this drivers ?
How was it like when you didn't had the F12 key ?
I think you and others must have a mental block dealing with this.

Nice races yesterday, although i want to complain about myself for having splits for 1:18.9x and messing up big time the last 2 races

Less idiots posting would be a nice achivement too.

Quote from Mikkel Petersen :

No it isn't. Before I got myself a wheel, I was racing with my mouse with both throttle cut and blip off, without any problems. Being as competitive as those with wheels.

Edit: Stop whining about it in, kthxbai.

Define competitive, plz.

Travelled distance:3504 Km
Fuel burnt:689 Ltr
Laps:700
Hosts joined:160
Races won:1
Second:5
Third:4
Finished:52
Qualifications:9
Pole Positions:2
Drags / Wins:0 / 0

Cool video.
The jumping at 1:49 is really nice, but how about gathering some content for an: Epic ?

It wasn't 1 bad decision...severals, plural.
I bet that after the 1st car was in trouble a yellow flag came on...but i didn't saw anyone slowing down, instead all went for it.

This may result on oval circuits...

I was there when SamH blasted with join ...
Congrats.

Fantastic work.
Only need to point 1 thing, since you did an international presentation. i believe the messages on the video should be in english, not everyone can read spanish, i don't have problems, but others might have.

I liked that you avoided accidents were the famous colison system is notorious, there's nothing wrong showing a few accidents, but that's keep the uber flights away .

Can't wait for the next production.

Racing among others is completly diferent.
Plenty of people only drive fast if they get on the top places...other than that and they mess up too.