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dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Session 13:

Insufficent participation - no credit issued

Session 14:

One credit each for Cars 66, 87, 510, and 991
2015 Kyoto 250: Qualifying and Twin 115s Discussion
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Qualifying Day is Saturday, 28th March 2015! You will be PM'd the password for qualifying sometime Saturday early morning after the final entry check is made. Your Twin 115 password will be sent out after hotlap qualifying ends.

Due to the projection that we will have less than 30 eligible entrants to the event, the usual requirement of having to run in the hotlap session to race in the 250 is waived. HOWEVER: We do want you to set a time and participate in the Twin 115s, so please only miss the qualifying sessions if it is absolutely not possible to participate. You may miss the hotlap qualifying and take part in a Twin 115 still.

Hotlap qualifying is booked for one hour, and that entire hour will be run. Each Twin Race should take about an hour as well. You may NOT be in server if it is not your twin race!

If you cannot make the 115 you are assigned to, you are welcome to request a swap to another 115 OR elect to be placed to the provisional drivers pool. You must inform me of this as soon as possible after Twin race delegations are posted.

The schedule for qualifying day is as follows:
16:55 UTC: Arrival deadline for all competitors.
17:00 UTC: Start of hotlap qualifying, one outlap, two hotlaps, one inlap.
18:30 UTC (or 20 minutes after end of hotlap qualifying, whichever is later): Twin 115 Race 1 (63+2=65 laps; ONE GREEN FLAG pitstop required - ALL TYRE CHANGE REQUIRED)
19:50 UTC (or 15 minutes after end of Twin 115 Race 1, whichever is later): Twin 115 Race 2 (63+2=65 laps; ONE GREEN FLAG pitstop required - ALL TYRE CHANGE REQUIRED)

If you're unsure of the time in relation to you; please use the Time Zone Converter

The Top 2 after hotlap qualifying will start the Kyoto 250 in P1 and P2.
All others must race their way in through the Twin 115s. Twin 115 Race 1 sets the INSIDE file of the race grid, Twin 115 Race 2 sets the OUTSIDE file of the race grid. The polesitter for each Twin 115 is the 1st or 2nd place qualifier, respectively. That driver is NOT included in the top 11 of each twin 115 who race their way in. The first eleven finishers will start on their respective file in the order of finish. All remaining drivers will go into the provisional pool, of which the 6 fastest will fill the last 6 spots on the Kyoto 250 grid.

The official grid will be posted about 3 hours after the conclusion of the Twin 115 number 2. You will have 2 hours after the finish of the session that has the incident you wish to protest to file a protest if needed.

Discuss qualifying and the Twins here !
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Session 12:

1 credit each to 86, 96, and 510
2015 Kyoto 250: Practice Session 15 (FINAL SESSION)
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Practice Session 15 for the 8th Annual Kyoto 250 will be the following:

Friday, 27 March 2015
Qualifying: 30 minute window Starting 20:00 UTC
Race: 35 laps + 2 pace laps (37 total) starting 20:45 UTC
Wind: NO WIND for Qualifying, LOW WIND for Race
Weather: All Sessions Cloudy Afternoon

ONE COMPULSORY PITSTOP TO BE MADE UNDER GREEN FLAG CONDITIONS - NO SERVICE REQURED

Discuss!
2015 Kyoto 250: Practice Session 14 (PENULTIMATE SESSION)
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Practice Session 14 for the 8th Annual Kyoto 250 will be the following:

Thursday, 26 March 2015
Qualifying: 30 minute window Starting 18:30 UTC
Race: 45 laps + 2 pace laps (47 total) starting 19:15 UTC
Wind: NO WIND for Qualifying, LOW WIND for Race
Weather: All Sessions Cloudy Morning

Discuss!
2015 Kyoto 250: Practice Session 13
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
The 13th practice session for the 2015 Kyoto 250 will be held on Thursday, 26 March 2015, starting at 17:00 UTC. It will be a 60-minute Free Practice. There will be no race session. No Wind.

All drivers are encouraged to take laps, work as a group, and practice pitstops. Credit for doing a decent amount of work (generally at least 15 laps), double credit for doing a significant amount of work (generally at least 30 laps). Awarding of credit is at my sole discretion.
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
(This message has been PM'd to both drivers, posted here so that it is a matter of public record.)

To: 58 M. Linde, 130 S. Sietins
From: Kyoto 250 Administration
Re: Session 9 Driver Swap

Gentlemen:

Please explain why you performed a driver swap during Session 9.

Sufficient explanation demanded.

Additionally, the driver of Car 130 is under investigation for driving standards.

Regards,
Kyoto 250 Race Administration
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Latest credit awards:

Session 8:

1 credit each for Cars 32, 51, 58, 64, 78, 86, 93, 96, 510

Session 9:

1 credit each for Cars 7, 13, 33, 46, 51, 86, 93, 96, 97

Session 10:

No participants.

Session 11:

Two credits each for Cars 86 and 96
One credit for Car 78
2015 Kyoto 250: Practice Session 12
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Practice Session 12 for the 8th Annual Kyoto 250 will be the following:

Wednesday, 25 March 2015
Qualifying: 30 minute window Starting 18:30 UTC
Race: 50 laps + 2 pace laps (52 total) starting 19:15 UTC
Wind: NO WIND for Qualifying, LOW WIND for Race
Weather: All Sessions Clear Day

ONE COMPULSORY PITSTOP TO BE MADE UNDER GREEN FLAG CONDITIONS - ALL-TYRE CHANGE REQURED

Discuss!
2015 Kyoto 250: Practice Session 11
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
The 11th practice session for the 2015 Kyoto 250 will be held on Tuesday, 24 March 2015, starting at 19:00 UTC. It will be a 60-minute Free Practice. There will be no race session. No Wind.

All drivers are encouraged to take laps, work as a group, and practice pitstops. Credit for doing a decent amount of work (generally at least 15 laps), double credit for doing a significant amount of work (generally at least 30 laps). Awarding of credit is at my sole discretion.
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Quote from Eclipsed :It's funny when a participant knows rules better then race director:
Sporting code VIII.4.1.On Ovals, the pit entry will close until the field is caught up behind the Safety Car.
Or K250 rulebook VII.5.a)The pitlane entry will close at the time of a safety car deployment; and will not reopen until the majority of the fieid is caught behind the safety car.

Did not happen today in first caution - half of the field were more ahead of safety car then behind when pit entry was open. Caught me by surprise and gave a great bonus to those,who screwed up mandatory pit strategy.

All pitlane issues during the first SC are because Car 58 maintained full pace, making it so that he caught the queue of cars led by Car 7, which was working under reduced pace, and therefore the SC had to be scrambled early and collect those cars that should have not even been able to be stuck behind the SC had Car 58 reduced pace after the yellow was called. Really, everyone except Cars 33, 58, and 97 reacted properly to the yellow flag. 33 did stay mostly flat-out after recovering from his incident, and car 97 stayed flat out to catch the queue. Really, all cars should reduce pace until catching the queue, no matter how far back. Staying 50-70kph above SC pace will be more than enough to catch the queue in reasonable time.

However I cannot say it was either right or wrong to open the pitlane at that point. It is ultimately the Race Director's call if conditions are right to open the pitlane. "Majority of field" can be and has been interpreted to mean "all cars on the lead lap" - we are not required to wait until every last car is actually in the queue. If the leader and SC are just about to enter T3, and the last car for the queue is midway between T1 and T2, the "all cars in queue" requirement is satisfied as that car would be at the end of the queue by pit entry point.

Quote from Eclipsed :And /wind=0 after the race is a great command to avoid mishaps like the one happened today. :P

Yes, usually done. Not sure why I didn't do it after the session Sunday, then again I don't remember much about Sunday at this point!

Quote from Eclipsed :Also would like to have some clarification - I recall that tyrewarming was forbidden after 1 to go signal,is it the case here too? Can't find it in rules. Quite messy out there when few still figure skating all over the track while everyone should try to form single file.

Tyre warming should cease at the one to green signal.

Quote from pik_d :At the beginning of the race Provost said that the mandatory pit had to be under green, so that's kind of a moot point. It does look like one person did do their only pit stop during that caution though.

Provost timing out must have distracted us from that, since clearly we didn't catch it during the race.

Compulsory pitstop penalties are always to be post-race penalties, as they can be completed up to the final lap, so therefore cannot be reviewed and penalized in time during a race session.

Since the Race Director of the session declared that pitstops were to be taken under green, it will be enforced as such, even though that was not the default intention. Drivers must pay attention at all times for announcements of the sort. If I see that it was mentioned in a time that might have been a "last break" time, I might waive the penalty, as it was a late change. That will be reviewed later on Tuesday.
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Quote from dekojester :Practice 8 Race
18:30 Lap 13
Cars 66, 86, and 93
Incident on Main Straight

Practice 8 Race
20:20 Lap 15
Car 66
Pitlane Infringement

Car 66 - No session credit - Causing an avoidable incident with Car 86, improper pit entry on Lap 15.
2015 Kyoto 250: Practice Session 10
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
The 10th practice session for the 2015 Kyoto 250 will be held on Tuesday, 24 March 2015, starting at 00:30 UTC (20:30 EDT on Monday, 23 March 2015), It will be a 60-minute Free Practice. There will be no race session. No Wind.

All drivers are encouraged to take laps, work as a group, and practice pitstops. Credit for doing a decent amount of work (generally at least 15 laps), double credit for doing a significant amount of work (generally at least 30 laps). Awarding of credit is at my sole discretion.
2015 Kyoto 250: Practice Session 9
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Practice Session 9 for the 8th Annual Kyoto 250 will be the following:

Monday, 23 March 2015
Qualifying: 30 minute window Starting 18:30 UTC
Race: 40 laps + 2 pace laps (42 total) starting 19:15 UTC
Wind: NO WIND for Qualifying, LOW WIND for Race
Weather: All Sessions Cloudy Afternoon

ONE COMPULSORY PITSTOP - NO SERVICE IS REQUIRED, JUST TOUCH AND GO!

Discuss!
Last edited by dekojester, .
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Practice 8 Race
18:30 Lap 13
Cars 66, 86, and 93
Incident on Main Straight

Practice 8 Race
20:20 Lap 15
Car 66
Pitlane Infringement
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Quote from ToxicKlay :Deko, you've been moderator as long as I've owned LFS and I remember you as such. One of the biggest things in advertising the S2 license ~9 years ago was the fact that you'd get this wonderful S1 and S2 content now, and then you'd be able to upgrade to S3 soon as it came out for cheaper than it would be to get the license as is. That was LFS' whole marketing for multiple years. Don't try to drub that out of history and make it sound like S2 was offered for what it was, because it simply wasn't. I flat out would not have bought the game if I thought what I was getting was going to be the only slice of pie for the next 9 years. If you wish to blame society for the expectation of future happenings, you must also blame Scawen as part of that society for promising future happenings and then re-iterating those promises once a year, every year.

As Eclipsed said, I have only been a Moderator since around 2012. I have been a prominent member of the community in some capacity since late 2008, when my broadcasting and leagues really started to take shape.

To my recollection, a price level for S3 was NEVER stated by the developers. The community at large has presumed it will be £12, as that is the price for each S1 and S2, which combines into £24. Never when I was going through the ordering process, did it mention S3 being released anytime soon, it just said they reserve the right and that one should expect to modify the game as they see fit. I didn't actually purchase S2 until the beginning of 2008, so I may have missed that marketing, but I also joined before the whole "early 2009" Scirocco episode, so know what was the big deal of the day back then. Scawen has been nothing but brutally honest with himself on how they made a mistake in putting effort into tyre physics without doing anything else, and are working to fill the void. It's of course harder to make good from the mistake than not making the mistake in the first place, but hindsight is of course perfect, so he never would have known if it wasn't for the mistake - end result, he's a better individual for it.

The only promises in life are death and taxation, the rest is purely random.

Quote from ToxicKlay :Sorry, I should have been specific. I mean developers and people who create content for rFactor still give a damn. The LFS devs don't care if they get it out this week or any given week years from now because that's how their development cycle works. Scawen has said it multiple times.

I'm pretty sure most others work to somewhat the same degree as Scawen, they just won't blow deadlines even with just cause. I learned a long time ago, outside of LFS, to not expect anything until you have it - cynical yes, but is probably the best way to look at things.

Quote from ToxicKlay :It's funny that you write this last bit because when I offered constructive criticism tens of pages ago, I was ignored and none of my posts were replied to. Isn't it funny that the only way to get you to respond, or anybody for that matter, is to call them lazy bastards? By all means, if calling Scawen lazy is enough to light the fire under his ass, I'm glad to be the flint.

I don't quite think slinging mud in his direction is the best way to "light a fire under his ass" - he has always seemed to have been one able to block out the BS and get on with his gig, even if it doesn't result in publicly tangible goods. I would enjoy a more frequent progress report just as much as any, I enjoy how well he describes what he's been working on, it's always a good read. However, the cold feet that has been gotten due to some negative reactions isn't quite the best, but it's what they've decided and I'm in no position to change it.
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Quote from ToxicKlay :at this point I regret giving these lame bastards my ~$40 or whatever it converted to back in 2006. if I had known then that the claims of content being worked on were practically false advertising, I'd have thought twice about offering them my financial support. seriously, even if you had been working on content for 8 years Scawen, I can't consciously support a developer who sucks so bad at following through on his obligations to his customers

I'd rather play circa 05 rFactor these days. at least there are people in that community still giving a damn

There is no reason to say, or think, that your money was wasted on the product you bought at the time. 2006 was right on the height of the biggest time of LFS so far, and it lasted all the way into 2011 at the very latest. There is no reason you should not think you had the ability to already get your money's worth and then some! Society's problem nowadays is buying something with the EXPECTATION of future happenings, instead of paying money for what the product already is - food and stocks should be the only thing you buy because of what it will be in future, other things you buy because you know what they are capable of and you pay for it as-is then, anything else is just bonus.

People in this community still do give a damn, you just can't hear them for all the complaining. You are doing a disservice to those who do still give a damn by implying that no one in the LFS community gives a damn.

Quote from danielroelofs :I seriously doubt all the serious organizers of events like GenR and NDR all left because the situation is still as good as it was. And I am talking about activity of racing.. as I still regard LFS as a racing simulator.

NDR has not left, please do not state it that way. NDR has suspended full league operations until the community gets a bit more healthy - we are still running (not very frequent but enough) of our flagship races, and are always considering what to do in LFS. The suspension was due to the sole fact that participation was dwindling unacceptably low, and NDR had kind of lost its way and needed a break. Slowly working on building the infrastructure to offload the bureaucratic work onto the website to free up resources for the other things needed, reshaping some operations, etc. It is a shame, as until the last 18 months, everything was going along quite well, but severe declines in participation really blew. Case in point: LFSCART 2014 had 63 entries at the final round, 26 of them had been automatically withdrawn for failure to communicate whether or not they were going to participate. It's highly disrespectful to those who put in their time and effort to sign up, give the appearance of interest, then never turn up or even say you won't be able to turn up, for whatever reason. It gives a false hope that grids will be full.

There have always been the naysayers/negative people posting the negative things, but they'd usually be drowned out by those who took the time to discuss the good and the bad in constructive ways, and help out LFS. The real downturn in LFS started when CTRA shut down - which was more due to the people doing that moving on and not having or trusting anyone to take the reigns, than lack of progress back then. A lot of the problem is the core from the 2006-2010 heyday has come of age, gotten jobs, etc etc, and the usual replacement cycle has not kept up with it. It will take a heavy bit to fix that, but it could still happen.

You are much more likely to get positive result by offering constructive criticsm, instead of just bashing and calling them lazy bastards. Childish behaviour and the insults seems to be what put the devs off of offering progress reports in the first place, anyway!
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Quote from Gutholz :1) When a car spins/fails during SC it has to rejoin at back of field?

See NDR Sporting Code VII.3.e. A car must not retake positions lost if spinning or otherwise not able to maintain SC pace or a reasonable gap around it (basically enough to close back up or increase gaps)

Quote from Gutholz :2) When formation is wrong: Just move to my place or wait for orders?

If a car spins out, you should hold formation until instructed to adjust, as it will be caught while I'm checking the grid (multiple times during the pace laps!)

Quote from Gutholz :3) When excactly is "Green flag" given? When leading car crosses the white line with the green pylons?
(the line behind 77 in picture below)

Green flag is given any time around or after that line; on the race start the lead cars must wait for green, on restarts, the leader may begin accelerating any time at or after that line. See Kyoto 250 Rules Book VII.5.d.

Quote from Gutholz :4) If car is badly damaged in crash, is it allowed to pit asap or still have to wait for "pitlane open"?

It may pit under a closed pit, but will be sent to the back of the line on the restart. Severely damaged cars should use the full apron on pit entry, even under SC. Otherwise, under SC, drivers should not use the full apron, and instead enter pitlane after Turn 3. NO DRIVER may stop at pit entry to wait for it to open.

Quote from Gutholz :5)
Quote :At the one lap to green signal, all tyre warming must cease, and the field shall tighten up
the formation, leaving generally one car width to the side and 2-5 car lengths ahead.

In the practice races it looked more like this:

Before green flag it was even closer, sometimes bumper to bumper but surely not 2-5 car lenghts?

The formation needs to be tight, but not that tight - there needs to be room to avoid situations with differing reaction times. I will mention the gaps in driver's briefings in future. It won't be a penalty item just for being closer than 2 car lengths, but if it causes an incident, it can be cited.

Quote from Gutholz :6) Does the SC always wait for all cars to catch up before green flag?
Say the SC (with cars formed up behind) is approaching the last turn but some cars are a bit behind. (for example because they pitted very long.)
Can the cars assume that the SC will wait for them to catch up or should they "race" to the SC?

All drivers who pit on the first or (most times when there's still >16 cars in the race) second lap after pitlane is open are afforded the opportunity to catch the SC queue. Drivers pitting later in an SC are not always afforded this opportunity, but most times we will allow all cars on the leader lap to catch the queue. No driver should feel they need to rush to catch the SC, in fact slowing down as soon as you can see the queue in the distance, but staying somewhat above SC pace is reccomended. Never should anyone suddenly accelerate or brake under an SC period.
2015 Kyoto 250: Practice Session 8
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Practice Session 8 for the 8th Annual Kyoto 250 will be the following:

Sunday, 22 March 2015
Qualifying: 30 minute window Starting 18:30 UTC
Race: 60 laps + 2 pace laps (62 total) starting 19:15 UTC
Wind: NO WIND for Qualifying, LOW WIND for Race
Weather: All Sessions Cloudy Morning

Discuss!
Last edited by dekojester, .
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Here are credit awards for Sessions 3 through 7. They will appear on the entry list later tonight:

Session 3:

2x: 13, 19, 32, 33, 58, 87, 93, 130
1x: 74, 97, 420

Session 4:

1x: 7, 13, 19, 58, 64, 70, 87, 93 (all finished)
27 (Retired but performed well enough and long enough to receive credit)
8 (lost connection, raced cleanly up until then)

Session 5:

1x: 13, 32, 64, 70, 74, 93, 97, 510, 991

Session 6:

2x: 17, 991

Session 7:

2x: 19, 32, 64, 74, 93
1x: 13, 97
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Session has been rescheduled for today, Friday, 20 March 2015. It will run after the conclusion of Session 7.
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Quote from Gutholz :Session of Incident:
Practice Session 4 (race)
Lap and timecode of incident from YOUR car:
at start, car 70, 3min55 in mpr
Other Cars Involved:
25,27,64,93
Brief Description of incident:
Few seconds after green flag #25 hits a car in front twice then spins into path of following cars, including me.

Car 25 - Caused avoidable incident. Penalty shall be no session credit for this combined with his part in the Abandoned Race Start Incident (see below for details)

Also from Session 4:

Car 74 - Excluded from session for multiple avoidable contacts, some possibly intentional with Car 25. Car 74 contributed to the abandoned start crash by giving 25 a slight bump on the way to the green flag.

About the abandoned start crash, after the contact, Car 25 begins to launch, as if to avoid being hit again, or possibly a jump start try. It causes other cars to break formation and results in a concertina effect, which begins to manifest into crash just before green flag.

Session credit will most likely be given to all who completed the race, but not officially determined - will be considering it following Thursday's sessions.
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Session 3 and 4 credit is still being decided on, but the replays and results are available now in the OP.
2015 Kyoto 250: Practice Session 7
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Practice Session 7 for the 8th Annual Kyoto 250 will be the following:

Friday, 20 March 2015
Qualifying: 30 minute window Starting 18:30 UTC
Race: 50 laps + 2 pace laps (52 total) starting 19:15 UTC
Wind: NO WIND for Qualifying, LOW WIND for Race
Weather: All Sessions Clear Day

Discuss!
Last edited by dekojester, .
dekojester
S3 licensed
Moderator
Yes, there are two practice sessions scheduled for 18th March
FGED GREDG RDFGDR GSFDG