https://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/jul/24/russell-brand-amy-winehouse-woman

Here's a good chance to read about Russell, He is only human, I suggest you check out his channel and look at his other posts.
Especially him laughing about being accused of being 'Alt Right'

Peace and love.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2011/jul/24/russell-brand-amy-winehouse-woman

Here's a good chance to read about Russell, He is only human, I suggest you check out his channel and look at his other posts.

Peace and love.

I watch Russell Brand quite a lot,even going back to when he was first on british tv in the early 2000s, he does make a lot of sense with a lot he talk's about, but also because he is human, like us he does sometimes get things wrong.

Hes right on politicans not working on behalf of us, the common peoples interest.

Respect

Quote from Scawen :

I've two points to make on this.

1) I believe that it would seem a lot more reasonable to prosecute Putin for war crimes, if the likes of Blair and Bush had been in court for their illegal invasion on Iraq. (I know that's only one of many bad things done by 'The West' but it's a recent, blatant, unprovoked invasion that was started by a massive bombing campaign on a city).

2) I have extreme doubt that Putin would voluntarily extradite himself to visit a war crime court in a foreign country, so I'm unsure what can be achieved by this.

The result in my mind is that Putin should be charged for such crimes, but unfortunately he's at the back of the queue.


EDIT: In fact when Blair and Bush defied the United Nations and went in to attack Iraq without any evidence of their supposed justification, it seemed to me that they destroyed the whole concept of international law. From that point on, every time a Western 'leader' says "this action is against international law" my mind goes straight back to the Iraq invasion. It's just risible. This to me is very sad indeed. And in fact Putin and his mate keep using the Iraq invasion as an example.

The war in Iraq was a great trauma (especially for people of our generation). This has done a lot of harm to the concept of law. We could also talk about Libya. But these are just examples of the double standard that we feel we can impose on the rest of the world. "Do what I say. Do not do what I have done in the past or what I still allow myself to do before your eyes".

With regard to the crimes of the West (the wars of yesterday and today, but also colonization and its genocides, forced evangelization, slavery, the methodical plundering of planetary natural resources, the use of the atomic bomb, ecological devastation, our assumed consumerism and its effects...or our racialization of refugee status...the list is endless) who are we to teach lessons?

Our arrogance led us to proclaim "the end of history" to erase our debt to the rest of the world. But history catches up with us. Beyond the tragic fate of Ukraine, this is what is in question.

The double standard today authorizes other nations to perpetrate the worst atrocities in the name of equity, or the right to self-determination. Israel has raised the "double standard" as a concept [Three Ds]. It is a sign of anti-Semitism recognized to disqualify all criticism of the annexation of Palestine. Emerging nations invoke the double standard to justify their right to pollute and dispose of (even destroy) their natural resources (which we consider to be the common heritage of humanity since we no longer control them) Putin would be entitled to to invoke the double standard about international sanctions following his invasion of Ukraine...

I have big doubts like you. For Putin to stand trial for his crimes, he would have to either volunteer or be removed from office and handed over to an international court. These scenarios are unlikely. Labeling Putin a war criminal has another more immediate effect, however. It says there will be a "before" and an "after" Ukraine.

Putin played big. It seems that he has already partly lost. The West could perhaps do without Russian gas and oil. It will be more complicated for nuclear power. But the West will not be able to keep up the pressure on Russia without the support of China. And China is increasingly claiming its status as a non-aligned country.

The real question is, "What's behind the invasion of Ukraine?" The control of the Black Sea, of course. Putin already has some strong allies there. But the invasion of Ukraine could also hide something else.

Our navel-gazing has made us forget that Russia and Japan are still officially at war (the end of the Second World War has not happened for everyone). Following Japan's adoption of international sanctions against Russia, Russia redeployed to the Kuril Islands in late March. 3,000 men with missile batteries (the islands of Kouriles are less than 9,000 km from the USA...).

How would China react in the event of an armed confrontation between its hereditary enemy (Japan) and its contemporary best friend (Russia)?

I am not a collapsologist. But even if we escape the worst, this crisis will have considerable repercussions. After the health crisis and the economic crisis it caused, the conflict in Ukraine could be only the beginning of very large upheavals for which we should reflect and prepare (as far as possible).

This seems more urgent to me than testing our knowledge of wikipedia. It's just my opinion. And I prefer to be wrong.

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

The war in Iraq was a great trauma (especially for people of our generation). This has done a lot of harm to the concept of law. We could also talk about Libya. But these are just examples of the double standard that we feel we can impose on the rest of the world. "Do what I say. Do not do what I have done in the past or what I still allow myself to do before your eyes".

With regard to the crimes of the West (the wars of yesterday and today, but also colonization and its genocides, forced evangelization, slavery, the methodical plundering of planetary natural resources, the use of the atomic bomb, ecological devastation, our assumed consumerism and its effects...or our racialization of refugee status...the list is endless) who are we to teach lessons?

Our arrogance led us to proclaim "the end of history" to erase our debt to the rest of the world. But history catches up with us. Beyond the tragic fate of Ukraine, this is what is in question.

The double standard today authorizes other nations to perpetrate the worst atrocities in the name of equity, or the right to self-determination. Israel has raised the "double standard" as a concept [Three Ds]. It is a sign of anti-Semitism recognized to disqualify all criticism of the annexation of Palestine. Emerging nations invoke the double standard to justify their right to pollute and dispose of (even destroy) their natural resources (which we consider to be the common heritage of humanity since we no longer control them) Putin would be entitled to to invoke the double standard about international sanctions following his invasion of Ukraine...

I have big doubts like you. For Putin to stand trial for his crimes, he would have to either volunteer or be removed from office and handed over to an international court. These scenarios are unlikely. Labeling Putin a war criminal has another more immediate effect, however. It says there will be a "before" and an "after" Ukraine.

Putin played big. It seems that he has already partly lost. The West could perhaps do without Russian gas and oil. It will be more complicated for nuclear power. But the West will not be able to keep up the pressure on Russia without the support of China. And China is increasingly claiming its status as a non-aligned country.

The real question is, "What's behind the invasion of Ukraine?" The control of the Black Sea, of course. Putin already has some strong allies there. But the invasion of Ukraine could also hide something else.

Our navel-gazing has made us forget that Russia and Japan are still officially at war (the end of the Second World War has not happened for everyone). Following Japan's adoption of international sanctions against Russia, Russia redeployed to the Kuril Islands in late March. 3,000 men with missile batteries (the islands of Kouriles are less than 9,000 km from the USA...).

How would China react in the event of an armed confrontation between its hereditary enemy (Japan) and its contemporary best friend (Russia)?

I am not a collapsologist. But even if we escape the worst, this crisis will have considerable repercussions. After the health crisis and the economic crisis it caused, the conflict in Ukraine could be only the beginning of very large upheavals for which we should reflect and prepare (as far as possible).

This seems more urgent to me than testing our knowledge of wikipedia. It's just my opinion. And I prefer to be wrong.

You do speak a lot of sense. I personally think this is Putins retirement plan though, so to speak. He is 70 years old soon and even though he may live quite a while longer, his actual intentions may be a slightly longer plan.

Heres a video apparently based from some Russian soldiers and their experience up to now.

https://youtu.be/kV9DLy2NI_8

It would be a grave mistake to believe that Putin has any boundaries on how far he will go or what he would do

Briton, Dutchman, and New Zealander are arguing about Ukraine and the USSR. To me, this looks like the start of a good joke
No offense. You can argue about it. But you have no arguments, but only baseless takes and links to Wikipedia. To be honest, I don't understand what you mean by that. It looks like you not quite understand what is written there, what causal effects were about the events described there.

Before all these events, when Americans or even some Europeans were asked to show Ukraine on the map, they could not show anything, or they said that it was somewhere in Russia. It always amused me that when somewhere Ukraine or Belarus is mentioned, and if they wondered where it is, who it is, then they had one answer, these are Russians. And for sure, those who consider themselves smart people tried to argue with them and say that these are different countries. But that's not quite right. Yes, formally, after the collapse of the USSR, these are different countries, there are different flags and anthems, and they even said that there are different languages. There really wasn't that much difference between Russians and Ukrainians and Belarusians.

For me, when politics did not interfere much in business, Ukrainians and Russians have always been one people (if we are not talking about "Western Ukraine", but Polish in fact) With slight differences in language. What is usually called a dialect. And it began simply with a change in the sound of some phonemes. Purely linguistically, even now there are fewer differences between Russian and Ukrainian language than between Russian and Tatar language. And Tatarstan is a republic of Russia. Otherwise, we have the same culture, the same traditions. But during the formation of the USSR (and still after its collapse), politicians began to create separation between peoples, and then was followed by the people due soviet propaganda, Ukrainians began to look for new literature for themselves and call it the Ukrainian language, borrow even more words from Polish, but happened naturally due to the geographical reasons, and ofcource cuz of the seizure part of Polish during the Second World War, that is territories which are now called Western Ukraine. Formally, some part of Ukraine began to speak Polish, and the language in the western part of the country began to mix even more.

The fact that someone refers to the USSR and the borders of Ukraine.. is ridiculous, the borders during the times of the USSR were formed in the same arbitrariness as it was done with the states in the USA for example. And there was no "Ukraine" before the USSR. During the formation of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic some not smart politician found a map and started to drive random lines. This is how the borders of the republics were formed during the Soviet times, where there are clear ethnic and linguistic differences, it was easier to draw borders. But this was not always the case, as, for example, in the case of Ukraine. No ethnic differences of peoples in the formation of borders were taken into account, because these differences are so ungrounded and incomprehensible that no one could appeal to them.

After the end of the Civil War, she became a co-founder of the USSR and became part of it as a union republic. In 1939-1940 part of the territory was annexed from Poland during the cooperation between Stalin and Hitler during the Second World War. And after that, added Transcarpathian Ukraine and Northern Bukovina. And then Khrushchev gave the Crimea to Ukraine. And that had no particular reason to do so. (Some consider this moment the beginning of the subsequent conflict) Because of this, it turned out that in all these territories there were only those who spoke pure Russian and knew nothing about Ukraine (as a subject of the territories). And this division of people happened. Residents of western Ukraine were more willing to be exposed to propaganda about Ukrainian identity and they perceived it more easily, residents of the newly made eastern Ukraine did not perceive it. And most of them spoke Russian and they still (at least until February 24) called themselves Russians.

But now Putin has done a lot to make this Ukrainian identity appear. Because even many residents of eastern Ukraine no longer want to speak Russian. If always Russians and Urkains were about one people, then in 2014 the first political reasons for the division into a real Ukrainian identity began. On February 24, 2022, these reasons became even more. very ironic, but Putin did much more for the emergence of Ukrainian identity even than the politics of the USSR.

This is what Ukraine is today in my own words without any links to wikipedia and youtube.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

Purely linguistically, even now there are fewer differences between Russian and Ukrainian language than between Russian and Tatar language. And Tatarstan is a republic of Russia. Otherwise, we have the same culture, the same traditions. But during the formation of the USSR (and still after its collapse), politicians began to create separation between peoples, and then was followed by the people due soviet propaganda, Ukrainians began to look for new literature for themselves and call it the Ukrainian language, borrow even more words from Polish, but happened naturally due to the geographical reasons, and ofcource cuz of the seizure part of Polish during the Second World War, that is territories which are now called Western Ukraine. Formally, some part of Ukraine began to speak Polish, and the language in the western part of the country began to mix even more.

That's simply not true.

There's a continuum of dialects of Slavic languages from Russian to Polish. If you start in Russia and go westwards to Poland, you'll see a change in Russian language, transforming into Surzhyk (a mix of language features from both), then standard Ukrainian, and more polonisms in the Western Ukraine. There's also a mix of Russian and Belarussian (трасянка), and between Ukrainiand and Belarussian in border regions.

But what you call "language" is no more than an arbitrary standard, taken by educated elite that had media to spread it. The "languages" and "filthy" mixtures of them only appeared after centralized school education came by, and radio/TV. Norway had a continuum of dialects with Sweden, and it took a couple of hundred years of centralized schooling to make Norwegians not understand Swedes in border regions. Before that, there was a smooth transition of dialects from one big city to another.

You can easily notice that in Siberia people speak with different intonation, and use a number of different words than in Central Russia. If you go to North Caucasus to big cities, where people forgot local languages and speak only Russian, you'll notice they have different grammar features. In Kyrgyzstan, some words that had no form of single number (сутки -- 24 hours, сливки) were regularized and now have this form (сутка, сливка). Everyone speaks like that, and that's their local normal language, even though educated muscovites (and your school teacher of Russian) will be absolutely mad of that.

Back to Ukrainian vs Russian, Russian has more Old Church Slavonic influences and other borrowings where Ukrainian preserved Old Russian lexics. At the same time Ukrainian borrowed lots of words from their western neighbors, e.g. paint from German "Farbe".

Grammar has also got different features. You can't pick some arbitrary grammar feature at all. (Unless you're a fanatic like Eliezer Ben-Yehuda.) That can only be a natural phoenomenon.

Ukrainian and Belarusian diverged from Russian in several centuries of the Great Duchy of Lithuania ( contemporaries called it Lithuanian Russia, BTW). They had different literature, that the literate class used, than Moscovia. And they diverged significantly so that unprepared Russians can't understand them.

The idea that some evil politicians made people pick incomprehensible words is a Soviet/Russian propaganda myth.

Quote from bishtop :

You do speak a lot of sense. I personally think this is Putins retirement plan though, so to speak. He is 70 years old soon and even though he may live quite a while longer, his actual intentions may be a slightly longer plan.

Heres a video apparently based from some Russian soldiers and their experience up to now.

https://youtu.be/kV9DLy2NI_8

It would be a grave mistake to believe that Putin has any boundaries on how far he will go or what he would do

I don't think Putin is the kind of guy who bows to international pressure. If he ends up being cornered, he will cause an incident with planetary repercussions. He's not going to kill himself alone in his bunker. And the international strategy boils down to cornering Putin, at the risk of pushing China to react.
I think that the West does not have the means of its policy and more enough credibility to federate on “the beautiful values of freedom carried by the West”.
We are a bit like the German generations born after the war. They had to bear the historical weight of Nazism without being responsible for its crimes.

Your video is interesting. I confess that I do not know what to think?

Quote from detail :

That's simply not true.

You quote my part of the paragraph, started arguing with him, and arguing with the same theses that I described later in my text, which you didn’t consider it necessary to highlight... strange. And how i need to answer on this?

When you argue with someone, it is important to understand what thesis you are arguing with. Now I do not understand this, given what you write.
If you read my text, you should have noticed that when mentioning Ukraine, I leave Western Ukraine behind brackets. I didn't take it into account. I myself said that in the western part the language is mixed because of Polish .. This is literally the same as what you said about the continuum of languages ​​.. But you didn’t highlight this paragraph .. so I’m not sure. You don't seem to understand what I wrote. In your answer, you did not say anything about Tatar, so it is not entirely clear what you were answering.

To understand what I'm talking about, I propose to start from the beginning, with something simple, my thesis was - "Purely linguistically, even now there are fewer differences between Russian and Ukrainian language than between Russian and Tatar language"

You can start with this. And for the sake of interest, I will not even talk about that Ukrainian (not including Western Ukrainian) that I spoke about. Because then I'm too obviously right. And I will talk about the modern generally accepted Ukrainian language.

My argument is that - Russian and Ukrainian are in the same language family, and it has the closest linguistic common ancestor. Tatar is the Türkic branch of the Kypchak group, the Volga-Kypchak subgroup. It is genealogically located much further than Ukrainian. Just like the Chechen one.
No "arbitrary grammar feature" is needed here. Only genealogical connection.

And it's not clear if you are appealing to the "arbitrary grammar feature" and at the same time you started your comment with the fact that I'm wrong. Not a reference to what specific Ukrainian I am talking about. And apparently when you wrote that "That's simply not true." you meant a specific Ukrainian language. Apparently modern, or something else. This is not so important. The important thing is that the "arbitrary grammar feature" works equally well in your favor. And in this case it is not clear how anyone can be right or wrong.

UPD: idk why but now i see that you highlighted that I'm talking about mixed languages, earlier it seemed to me that you are highlighted only half of my paragraph, strange, maybe some kind of bug. then it's still not clearer what you talking about.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

Briton, Dutchman, and New Zealander are arguing about Ukraine and the USSR. To me, this looks like the start of a good joke
No offense...

This is what Ukraine is today in my own words without any links to wikipedia and youtube.

I understand what you are saying. But we do not need to know Ukraine well to subscribe to the right of peoples to self-determination. And it would seem that the Ukrainian institutions have made choices in this direction. Even if it's very interesting, the question of the language seems to me here very secondary here (in addition you do not seem to agree between you).

As a side note, I'm finding the language/dialect discussion fascinating. I never turn down an opportunity to learn something, and the history and evolution of dialect is mesmerising to me. Even tiny little Britain has an amazing history of dialects which are all but lost now.

Sure it's off-topic, but I appreciate it.

[edit] Actually I take that back; it's not off-topic, it's a side topic, but the path that dialect takes is socio-political and in this context it's highly relevant.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

Briton, Dutchman, and New Zealander are arguing about Ukraine and the USSR. To me, this looks like the start of a good joke

Il refrain from reading past this part due to the FACT you're wrong. We're not arguing at all. Were having something that's called a Discussion.

Quote from Avraham Vandezwin :

I don't think Putin is the kind of guy who bows to international pressure. If he ends up being cornered, he will cause an incident with planetary repercussions. He's not going to kill himself alone in his bunker. And the international strategy boils down to cornering Putin, at the risk of pushing China to react.

Agree with you, he doesn't seem the type of person to bow in to pressure, and their is a story that Putin once told from when he was younger, due to a poor childhood they used to chase rats around for fun, one time he cornered a rat and due to it being cornered it tried to attack him.

He goes with this principle in life, things become dangerous and likely to attack if they're put into a corner with no way out.

Contrary to what Aleksandr_124rus seems to believe, we're well educated in geography and history in our schools and colleges and universities.

Quote from detail :

That's simply not true.

There's a continuum of dialects of Slavic languages from Russian to Polish. If you start in Russia and go westwards to Poland, you'll see a change in Russian language, transforming into Surzhyk (a mix of language features from both), then standard Ukrainian, and more polonisms in the Western Ukraine. There's also a mix of Russian and Belarussian (трасянка), and between Ukrainiand and Belarussian in border regions.

But what you call "language" is no more than an arbitrary standard, taken by educated elite that had media to spread it. The "languages" and "filthy" mixtures of them only appeared after centralized school education came by, and radio/TV. Norway had a continuum of dialects with Sweden, and it took a couple of hundred years of centralized schooling to make Norwegians not understand Swedes in border regions. Before that, there was a smooth transition of dialects from one big city to another.

You can easily notice that in Siberia people speak with different intonation, and use a number of different words than in Central Russia. If you go to North Caucasus to big cities, where people forgot local languages and speak only Russian, you'll notice they have different grammar features. In Kyrgyzstan, some words that had no form of single number (сутки -- 24 hours, сливки) were regularized and now have this form (сутка, сливка). Everyone speaks like that, and that's their local normal language, even though educated muscovites (and your school teacher of Russian) will be absolutely mad of that.

Back to Ukrainian vs Russian, Russian has more Old Church Slavonic influences and other borrowings where Ukrainian preserved Old Russian lexics. At the same time Ukrainian borrowed lots of words from their western neighbors, e.g. paint from German "Farbe".

Grammar has also got different features. You can't pick some arbitrary grammar feature at all. (Unless you're a fanatic like Eliezer Ben-Yehuda.) That can only be a natural phoenomenon.

Ukrainian and Belarusian diverged from Russian in several centuries of the Great Duchy of Lithuania ( contemporaries called it Lithuanian Russia, BTW). They had different literature, that the literate class used, than Moscovia. And they diverged significantly so that unprepared Russians can't understand them.

The idea that some evil politicians made people pick incomprehensible words is a Soviet/Russian propaganda myth.

Very informative and interesting read. Thank you

Quote from bishtop :

Il refrain from reading past this part due to the FACT you're wrong. We're not arguing at all. Were having something that's called a Discussion.

I didn't mean to offend anyone, it just looks a bit funny to me. I start to write my comment where is https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1997284#post1997284 that comment was last. Where you exchanged links without much explanation.

I would also like explanations with arguments where I am wrong, and where my argument is not enough.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

I'll assume your making a joke.

It's nice to see someone who doesn't get offended by jokes.

Quote from Racer X NZ :

IDK, some are determined that I'm ultra right, other think I'm ultra left.... Clearly a middle path confuses people.

And if this is true, then people like you are rare, cuz a lot of people don't like people like you. If you start to say something that is not in the mainstream, that quickly turns into a hate to you. But I also try to follow this path. Because I never cared about someone else's opinion based on emotions.

Quote from Scawen :

but post a link to a massive wikipedia page. You could, for example, make a couple of points about what point you are trying to make, instead of being so lazy.

Lazy? Seriously? You are going to say that? Let me clear my eyes. Yes, its seriously written by you. What a retarded insult is this.

First of all, its barely three pages. How do you react when you see a book?

Lazy. Posting a propaganda Hollywood video of Schwarzenegger, thats what I call truely lazy. This is insane and hilarious at the same time too. Now I know for sure that any time on LFS would be a total waste, thanks for this great comment.

My last sentence is not really cryptic. Ukraine is not a football club where everyone is of the same team. Ukraine is recently formed but its a mixture of Kiev(Rus)-Polish-Lithuanian-Greek and some small other 'nationalities'. It's being approached by the mass as it has one culture, like its one centuries old nation. Its not. Wake up. Read more, watch less propaganda videos. Realize its bigger then Great Britain where you even have your little old conflicts with Northern Ireland and the Scottish do not team up that well also lately. Try to see a broader perspective.

I wonder if you can detect the Schwarzenegger propaganda at all. Do you really think that video was made for the Russians? Lol. Its for the silly naive American. Meanwhile driving around in his eco car in a state which was totally made bankrupt. (its the one on the top, to be clear).

Advice; delete Twitter

Oh man ( : Ddddddddd, these posts)

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

[..] Dutchman, [..]
Before all these events, when Americans or even some Europeans were asked to show Ukraine on the map, they could not show anything, or

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 (downed by older type of BUK rocket, only been left in service @Ukrainian army according to Dutch safety board)

-and-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Dutch_Ukraine–European_Union_Association_Agreement_referendum

Do I need to explain this as well? I went voting myself and I voted against. The reason of voting against is precisely because I already suspected what was going to happen, which is happening now!

So do you still think its a joke that some Dutchmen is involved in a discussion about Ukraine? My personal inner circle already drove to the PL/UA border twice and back to get and arrange personal shelter for refugees. I think its quite risky as I personally do not fully trust these type of people but on the other hand who can be trusted nowadays. This is the bigger LFS-type of question. Before you know it you get canceled because you do not have a mainstream opinion in the *cough* free *cough* west.

Quote from cargame.nl :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17 (downed by older type of BUK rocket, only been left in service @Ukrainian army according to Dutch safety board)

-and-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Dutch_Ukraine–European_Union_Association_Agreement_referendum

Do I need to explain this as well? I went voting myself and I voted against. The reason of voting against is precisely because I already suspected what was going to happen, which is happening now!

So do you still think its a joke that some Dutchmen is involved in a discussion about Ukraine? My personal inner circle already drove to the PL/UA border twice and back to get and arrange personal shelter for refugees. I think its quite risky as I personally do not fully trust these type of people but on the other hand who can be trusted nowadays. This is the bigger LFS-type of question. Before you know it you get canceled because you do not have a mainstream opinion in the *cough* free *cough* west.

Oh my god.. I didn't argue with you. I didn't ask for any arguments. Because I didn't even understand your position..
I wrote in the same comment to which you answer that there is nothing wrong with you discussing this. I dont want offended to any of you. Why didn’t you want to pay attention to it? And quote only what is get points to you? I just said that you do not have enough arguments, you just exchanged links without sufficient explanation. Exactly the same thing that is happening now. Because I don't even understand why these links are needed. I did not argue with the fact that you do not understand the topic. A only said - is funny That many Americans or some Europeans (Americans in most) did not know anything about Ukraine, and after situation, everyone in the public field became certified experts in this topic. Don't take it personally. Why does everyone here get so offended so quickly?

I don’t even understand what you are arguing with.. With the fact that some Americans and Europeans did not even know where Ukraine is before the conflict? But it is so. I didn't say it was you. This is argue for the sake of arguing.

I encourage you to start thinking rationally. And not getting emotional. Because statements based on emotions can easily be wrong. Answer only to what is in my text. And not inventing to me what I did not say. I didn't mean to offend you with jokes. Oh, this is a society with freedom of speech...

Quote from cargame.nl :

retarded insult is this.

Enjoy your 3 month ban!

It's getting harder to justify keeping the thread open with so much bickering.

Still, there are good posts being made, views exchanged and things discussed.

As part owner I feel a duty to allow discussion, but it comes at a personal cost. If I don't moderate, I get attacked. If I do moderate, I get attacked. If I try to calm someone down, I get attacked. But the subject is too important to close the thread for personal reasons.

If people can defuse situations rather than escalate, that would be very helpful. And if you want to post a link, please explain why you are posting that link and the point you are making.

I don't understand what constitutes as good posts, exchanged views and things discussed on this topic. Discussing the semantics of justification on one nation attacking another sovereign nation, with the attacking nation not differentiating between civil and military targets added to that.

Also think about what picture it paints for anyone visiting or revisiting this forum, maybe to check out the new mods section, who then stumble upon this thread with the poll

"POLL : DO YOU THINK RUSSIA HAS THE RIGHT TO INVADE / DEFEND UKRAINE?"

at the top. Do you think this represents the LFS community in the right light? I know of at least one simracing friend who did just that and I won't repeat his words here.

Close this thread, deleting it outright may be better still. It's not going anywhere good and it's not giving anyone any valuable insight.

Quote from Scawen :

It's getting harder to justify keeping the thread open with so much bickering.

Fully understand.

This is a mechanism called "the heckler's veto", whereby those who don't like the thrust or direction of a discussion will attempt to shut down the entire thread by misbehaving and making it as toxic as possible.

Trolls be trolls, but those of us who are conversing can try to commit to not rising to the bait. If you can tolerate it, I think those of us who are here to learn would very much appreciate you bearing with us.

Quote from Scawen :

Enjoy your 3 month ban!

Really?

Quote from Scawen :

How about Russians getting rid of Putin? I mean removing him from office? I realise a lot of Russians really like him for various reasons but this new invasion and its obvious negative effects on the Russian people and everyone else, must plunge him to a far lower level of popularity. Is there any chance at all of a complete revolt, cease to carry out his commands, lock him up and get someone in charge who hasn't lost their mind? Are the military forces so loyal to him that this is out of the question?

I say this as a supporter of reason and as a person of the world who doesn't want more bloodshed. Nothing to do with supporting "The West". But Putin is losing it. He sounds like a desperate man and it's time for him to go.

The sooner he is removed, the sooner we can start to put things right. There is so much to do, so much change needed in all countries of the world. But blowing things up and killing people isn't getting us any closer.

it feels like it was written by a child who lives in the world of fairy tales.Oh yah remove bad man and whole world will live happy...

I won’t repeat about the actor,cargame.nl already wrote.

and after this you get ofended?

I really am finding it hard to understand why I have become the target of verbal attacks, simply for providing a place where people from many countries, who know each other through a common interest, can discuss an important thing that is happening in the world. That's a good thing, right? And we shouldn't be arguing between us?

Quote from dfgjkl :

Really?



it feels like it was written by a child who lives in the world of fairy tales.Oh yah remove bad man and whole world will live happy...

I won’t repeat about the actor,cargame.nl already wrote.

and after this you get ofended?

Dear Mr dfgjkl.

I understand you are hiding behind a fake name, and may fear to reveal your true identity. But do you realise, that the most effective way to remove bad leaders, is for the people of their country to remove them?

So it is really not the thoughts of a child, to wonder if in one hugely important country, with a long, distinguished and important history, that they, like others, might be able to remove their leader from power at some point.

I'm fifty years old. I'm not a child. I am sad that you appear to believe that everyone has to simply accept all the bad things done by power hungry people, bend over and let it happen.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

I didn't mean to offend anyone, it just looks a bit funny to me. I start to write my comment where is https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/1997284#post1997284 that comment was last. Where you exchanged links without much explanation.

I would also like explanations with arguments where I am wrong, and where my argument is not enough.

All my post contain an explaination with the links. Sorry just slightly confused

No worries anyway i wasn't offended per say, i actually like to read a lot of what you say, and as i've said earlier on, i get the impression you're a decent guy

Quote from ACCAkut :

Close this thread, deleting it outright may be better still. It's not going anywhere good and it's not giving anyone any valuable insight.

You're wrong on that, you see the majority of us can and do have a civilised discussion even when we do not agree with each other, it is only the few that come and ruin the discussion.

Quote from dfgjkl :

Really?



it feels like it was written by a child who lives in the world of fairy tales.Oh yah remove bad man and whole world will live happy...

I won’t repeat about the actor,cargame.nl already wrote.

and after this you get ofended?

If you don't remove "bad men" then you're allowing "bad men", allowing them is just as bad, while i agree that in some cases they can be replaced by someone that is bad, thats a chance that has to be taken as its better than doing nothing.

Removing just bad men doesn't really help that much because there will always be replacement. Furthermore, removing these bad people makes remover bad as well, especially in this so-called freedom west.

The key option would change bad to good.

But then again, who is good and bad in eyes of whom.

I see Leader of the Kreml quite bad, because it is now as clear as sky, these conquest journeys are for his personal reference.

Threaten by NATO?
Threaten by Nazis?
Threaten by West?
Threaten by 3rd party stuff?
Threaten by Ukraine?
Threaten by Mass Destruct Weapons?

The thing is, Russia could had easily sway all of these threats, there is no question of it.

Bullshit. There is not even solid defense right now close to Finland and our nation seeks to be a member of NATO?

Really? All of them = Excuse.

( And those hidden "switches" which seems to move people inside Russia...not gonna say slaves, but does people really support this? North-Korea has exact same situation, only several times stronger, although seems to be weakened ever so slightly day by day )

EDIT: This "conflict" is just an act, nothing else. ( Please, read this sentence between lines alright? )