The online racing simulator
Test Patch 0.6R8 (now R22)
(407 posts, started )
What is your setting for Full-scene antialiasing? (Options - Graphics)

I am asking because when you enable the post-processing is uses 4x. I thought maybe if you had a higher setting there could be an issue with memory usage or similar. Could possibly be connected with AF as well?

So maybe try turning down AF and limit your AA to 4x.
Quote from Scawen :I am asking because when you enable the post-processing is uses 4x. I thought maybe if you had a higher setting there could be an issue with memory usage or similar. Could possibly be connected with AF as well?

Talking about that, do you have plans to unlink MSAA and post processing? It would be nice to be able to control MSAA level independently from post effects.
Quote from Scawen :What is your setting for Full-scene antialiasing? (Options - Graphics)

It was at 16x. The issue exist also at 8x.

Quote from Scawen :So maybe try turning down AF and limit your AA to 4x.

With 4x AF switching between off and on works without frame rate drop.

@Scawen:
By the way I DISABLED post processing and then I had the bad frame rate.

I can not imagine that it is related to the vram. The graphics card has dedicated 4 GB of RAM. According to LFS, the textures memory usage is around 324 MB. There should be enough space/ram, right? I don't know if that so easy to compare. I don't understand enough about vram and usage. Smile
"What is your setting for Full-scene antialiasing? (Options - Graphics)"
Quote from Pasci :It was at 16x. The issue exist also at 8x.

With 4x AF switching between off and on works without frame rate drop.

Thanks for the test.

I'm not sure if you did a typo there. Did you mean AA in the final sentence above? As in antialiasing, not anisotropic filtering?

Quote from Pasci :
@Scawen:
By the way I DISABLED post processing and then I had the bad frame rate.

Yes, I noticed that. That's the reason for my question about AA. It's the only thing I can think of that should be better when you do switch ON postprocessing. Because in that case it uses 4xAA regardless of your setting.

The reason for that is, I believe 4xAA is the best result for the least minimal extra GPU usage. That's why mirrors and VR render target use 4xAA and that's why the postprocessing one does as well (as it was a quick add-on using some existing code). My understanding is the render target uses 4x the size of Z buffer when you use 4xAA. Higher AA settings use bigger and bigger Z buffer and it starts to become a memory access and processing issue. And regarding anisotropic filtering, higher AF settings cause the card to produce its own special anisotropic versions of textures in memory and the amount used is unpredictable (at least to me it is).

Quote from Pasci :I can not imagine that it is related to the vram. The graphics card has dedicated 4 GB of RAM. According to LFS, the textures memory usage is around 324 MB. There should be enough space/ram, right? I don't know if that so easy to compare. I don't understand enough about vram and usage. Smile

I am sure you have enough memory. But accessing so much of that memory and processing it every frame is always a problem, which is why half texture resolution can often give better frame rates. I'm not sure if AF (anisotropic filtering) setting should affect things differently in post processing or standard modes. But I must wait for your answer to that first question in this post. Smile
Quote from Scawen :I'm not sure if you did a typo there. Did you mean AA in the final sentence above? As in antialiasing, not anisotropic filtering?

The fps is low if I select "Full-scene antialiasing" with 8x. If I switch off "post-processing shader" with this value fps fall down to around 5 fps. If "Full-scene antialiasing" is at 4x the framerate is stabil. It doesn't matter if "post-processing shader" is enabled or not.

Perhaps you can only gray-out instead of hidding "Full-scene antialiasing" if "post-processing shader" is enabled? Or do you plan to change this dependency between "post-processing shader" and "full-scene antialiasing"? After Talking about this issue I realize, that "Full-scene antialiasing" is hidden while "post-processing shader" is active. :-)

I'm sorry for the following off-topic question (you can ignore it): Why "Field of view" is limited to 90° in multi-monitor usage? For single monitor configuration I can already use "unrealistic" values of max. 160°. Will be nice if viewing area for multi-monitor usage with more degrees (max. 110°?) are possible in the future.

BTW: Thanks for your fast support with my "little" (known) issue.
Quote from Scawen :The reason for that is, I believe 4xAA is the best result for the least minimal extra GPU usage. That's why mirrors and VR render target use 4xAA and that's why the postprocessing one does as well (as it was a quick add-on using some existing code). My understanding is the render target uses 4x the size of Z buffer when you use 4xAA. Higher AA settings use bigger and bigger Z buffer and it starts to become a memory access and processing issue. And regarding anisotropic filtering, higher AF settings cause the card to produce its own special anisotropic versions of textures in memory and the amount used is unpredictable (at least to me it is).

Thanks for the explanations Thumbs up

This makes the topic a bit more understandable for me.
Since we're still before the public update, would it hurt to raise the object-count limit a bit ? Wink Even 4k shouldn't be a problem for today's PCs.
R21 contains fixes, updates and rewritten instructions docs\Autocross.txt

Layout editor:

New layout editor instructions: docs\Autocross.txt
Improved UNDO and REDO - the selection is now correctly restored
Start position / checkpoints / finish line now in control section
FIX: Heading slider bar was not restored after a failed rotation
FIX: Zero diameter marshalls could be placed in the same position
FIX: Diameter stuck after adding a circle when diameter was zero

InSim:

New value PMO_AVOID_CHECK for PMO_ADD_OBJECTS avoids validity check

https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/92067
Quote :Start position / checkpoints / finish line now in control section

I always assumed the fact you can only add one of each was the reason they were excluded from the editor. Having all objects listed in the editor + removal of these dedicated keys ('S', 'F', '1', '2', '3') is a nice improvement.

Quote :New value PMO_AVOID_CHECK for PMO_ADD_OBJECTS avoids validity check

Thanks!

The following report is probably not related to the test patch. Nor is it a bug but it might be worth mentioning. When you add (by pressing 'O' or 'M') a selection (row as shown in the screenshots attached) of intersecting movable objects with PMO_AVOID_CHECK flag set the validity check is performed. A PMO_ADD_OBJECTS is sent followed by a PMO_DEL_OBJECTS. Interestingly it does not remove all objects. It typically leaves 1 or 2 objects. The same happens when you place on ground.

This is probably much ado about nothing although, as a result the UNDO/REDO is blocked. You can't undo from that point on anymore.

The screenshots illustrate a row of intersecting movable objects (with ground level check) which were copy-pasted.

EDIT:
Interestingly, depending on which the last selected object is 1 object or 2 objects are left undeleted. Could the validity check become patchy when movable objects (especially railing, I can't reproduce this with other movable objects) are close to one another?
Attached images
lfs_00000025.jpg
lfs_00000026.jpg
I've been stuck into the editor properly this week, and it really is nice to use with these new features. There's one thing that does slow me down though: The outlines can get in the way when you're trying to lay a line of objects neatly, for example a long wall made of many concrete wall objects. I end up repositioning my view and zooming in and out with every object in the line, or having to go back and smooth it out via the coord buttons with lots of swapping which object is highlighted.

Would it be possible to have a key that would turn them off temporarily? I imagine that just while the key is pressed would be better than an on/off toggle, so it would be like when we use ctrl+alt to momentarily turn playernames into usernames. That'd be just enough for a quick visual check before we place, without hobbling the usefulness of the outlines.
Quote from Racon :I've been stuck into the editor properly this week, and it really is nice to use with these new features. There's one thing that does slow me down though: The outlines can get in the way when you're trying to lay a line of objects neatly, for example a long wall made of many concrete wall objects. I end up repositioning my view and zooming in and out with every object in the line, or having to go back and smooth it out via the coord buttons with lots of swapping which object is highlighted.

Would it be possible to have a key that would turn them off temporarily? I imagine that just while the key is pressed would be better than an on/off toggle, so it would be like when we use ctrl+alt to momentarily turn playernames into usernames. That'd be just enough for a quick visual check before we place, without hobbling the usefulness of the outlines.

I strongly believe that would be handy! After all, it is WYSIWYG, thus requires to see things as "naked eye".

+1
I see there's a new line in translations - "matching object". Not sure where and when the message comes,so before trying all variations,could someone explain how it's meant and when it's displayed?

Also Scawen - would be nice,if there are new lines to translate in new test patch,you could just notify in test patch post about it. I know you send e-mail when there is more stuff to translate,but in my case it would be enough something like "Translators - new line(s) to translate" in post. To be honest - I check this forum much more often than my mail... Big grin
Quote from sicotange :removal of these dedicated keys ('S', 'F', '1', '2', '3') is a nice improvement.

+1 to this, I can't count the number of times I've messed up the server by accidentally pressing one...
Quote from Racon :Would it be possible to have a key that would turn them off temporarily? I imagine that just while the key is pressed would be better than an on/off toggle, so it would be like when we use ctrl+alt to momentarily turn playernames into usernames. That'd be just enough for a quick visual check before we place, without hobbling the usefulness of the outlines.

I haven't thought much about this or tested it, but would CTRL+SHIFT be a good key for this?

As it is used in a few places to provide a temporarily different display.

Quote from Eclipsed :I see there's a new line in translations - "matching object". Not sure where and when the message comes,so before trying all variations,could someone explain how it's meant and when it's displayed?

The new "matching object" is similar to "intersecting object".

They are used with the strings "Can't add :" and "Can't move :".

It means the object is exactly the same as another object, so can't be placed.

In that case you would see "Can't add : matching object".
Quote from Scawen :I haven't thought much about this or tested it, but would CTRL+SHIFT be a good key for this?

As it is used in a few places to provide a temporarily different display.

I can't see any reason why not, plus it's already in muscle memory Smile
Window while connecting - no idea why this option is needed , just use Win+T or Alt+Tab. And why is this option everytime after a update installed enabled? If it only need 5min to remove this, please do it. Suggestion for the new LFS: User-Settings are needed, optional in the windows default settings folders C:\Users\<yourusername>\AppData\Roaming\
Quote from matze54564 :Window while connecting - no idea why this option is needed , just use Win+T or Alt+Tab. And why is this option everytime after a update installed enabled? If it only need 5min to remove this, please do it. Suggestion for the new LFS: User-Settings are needed, optional in the windows default settings folders C:\Users\<yourusername>\AppData\Roaming\

offtopic:

That (annoying) window thing comes from a time when people were using 3rd-party firewall software that would ask you to allow network access for lfs.exe. It could happen that that request didn't actually pop up correctly and thus block LFS from connecting to the master which resulted in people asking why the game was broken.

User-Settings are also a think that weren't really around when LFS was initially released in 2002. It's basicly how games worked back then and has the distinct advantage that you can just copy your LFS folder and save all data at once without having to dive deep into the user folder (and AppData isn't even visible per default) and back a 2nd (3rd, 4th ...) folder as well.
Both concepts have advantages and disadvantages.
Quote :Would it be possible to have a key that would turn them off temporarily? I imagine that just while the key is pressed would be better than an on/off toggle, so it would be like when we use ctrl+alt to momentarily turn playernames into usernames. That'd be just enough for a quick visual check before we place, without hobbling the usefulness of the outlines.

It is indeed useful to be able to hide the outlines in some cases.

Quote :I haven't thought much about this or tested it, but would CTRL+SHIFT be a good key for this?

As it is used in a few places to provide a temporarily different display.

CTRL+SHIFT seems pertinent although SHIFT is already used to keep the selection when you are no longer in FVM_EDIT mode. What about the ALT key?
Quote from nacim :That's something that I tried to do some time ago, but couldn't do because of DXT3 compression on dds skins (when using alpha, it create dithered black dots on the texture). It would be nice to see it implemented in a future patch Smile

this atleast doesnt work anymore. (DXT3)transparency.

https://www.lfs.net/forum/post/954963#post954963

but it was nice while it lasted though. big breakthrough for skinners at the time Smile

alot of shine for rockingham is in the main tribune buildings mesh.
taking it off makes it look more "desert ish" actually. (well working on the desert mod atm).
this one :
ROKmesh3_ALP
R21 not yet official ? shall we begin to speculate on more things coming with T release (or S ... ) than what is in R21 ? Ya right Petals
Quote from Flotch :R21 not yet official ? shall we begin to speculate on more things coming with T release (or S ... ) than what is in R21 ? Ya right Petals

I allready started to hope for more Thumbs up As I thought at first this was just a tiny update for connection updates. But now it takes so long that I have feeling Scawen waiting for Eric Uhmm
Yeah my hopes have been steadily going up for a while now, everyday checking the forums to see what's going on. Interested! Tilt
Lfs is old tech. Doesn't mean its bad.
Hello @Scawen,

New gear feature Can you add?

Sport Mode
Eco Mode
Comfort Mode
.
.
.
.

InSim With suspension, differential, pressure, camber, torque, power adjustable forces can be increased?



Because LFS is intended for racing use, not cruising use, right?

I mean, you can control fuel mixture I'm fairly sure!

Also, the insim control you mentioned probably wont be implemented (if all) until the new tyre physics update, as anything above 400hp goes all crazy currently, or at least it does in Tweak.

Test Patch 0.6R8 (now R22)
(407 posts, started )
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