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2011 NASCAR Season
(1062 posts, started )
Quote from Seb66 :Nobody takes you seriously.

Quote :
All that he said was true, NASCAR is stupid with its ruling. Even though I do enjoy watching it.

:wtf2:

Yeah, just like Hami and Massa were paid to do the mess they have done this season. It's all scripted apparantly.
Europeans are like sport detectives trying to pin point why somthing isn't working and going way too indepth to get an answer, while Americans will watch it purely for entertainment value and if they don't like it, they just switch the channel. And the funny thing is both can't understand the other.

I'll admitt I'm more on the European side but I understand the American point of view to a degree.
Quote from Seb66 :Nobody takes you seriously.
All that he said was true, NASCAR is stupid with its ruling. Even though I do enjoy watching it.

Oh I forgot you know so much about oval racing... Wouldnt you want a caution called for metal in the track that could cut your tire at 165-190 MPH speeds, safety first?
I just don't like how NASCAR fans know alot of words and actions are 'for the show' but they still play along as-if it's an unforseen outcome..
The problem with your argument is that it is just a generalization. It's like saying "I just don't like how F1 fans know DRS and KERS are 'for the show' but they still play along as if it's an unforseen outcome... ". Not everyone thinks the same way, and if you think the fans are "okay" with what has been going on, then either you haven't paid attention or you are Helen Keller.

Your "phantom debris cautions" most of the time come from the drivers, but I'm sure you didn't know that. NASCAR can listen to all radios obviously, and drivers will tell their spotter or crew chief that they see debris in X turn. They then tell a NASCAR official and it is relayed up until something is found. It could just be a black piece of tape rolled up, but a split second decision has to be made if it is on the racing surface with cars going by at over 160-190mph.

It's like those young teens that know nothing about life and know that their mommy just got her paycheck. They then go and beg her to buy them the new CoD because "she just got her paycheck so she has money". At the same time though she is saying she doesn't have the money to spend, because of bills. In NASCAR the officials are the mom, and the viewers complaining about the debris cautions are the young clueless teens. There's more that goes on besides what you see on your screen, and when someone says "people are saying there is debris in turn 3", whether it is there or not, they will call the caution because they don't always have time to go and put a camera on there and pan through just to find a spring rubber sitting there.

As for your silly WWF comment. NASCAR gave driver's the ability to settle it out themselves, sadly the young and clueless drivers take it out on track in the worst of ways. Blame NASCAR all you want, but at the end of the day it is the driver's fault. Are you going to blame Germany for their autobahn when someone gets in a car crash because they are driving too fast? No, you blame the driver.

Instead of trying to find a negative in everything, try to see how the championship has played out and how cool it is to see the final race having the top 2 in the championship seperated by less than a handful of points (3).

On that note, gotta be up in less than 4.5 hours, bed time.
Quote from PMD9409 :The problem with your argument is that it is just a generalization. It's like saying "I just don't like how F1 fans know DRS and KERS are 'for the show' but they still play along as if it's an unforseen outcome... ". Not everyone thinks the same way, and if you think the fans are "okay" with what has been going on, then either you haven't paid attention or you are Helen Keller.

Your "phantom debris cautions" most of the time come from the drivers, but I'm sure you didn't know that. NASCAR can listen to all radios obviously, and drivers will tell their spotter or crew chief that they see debris in X turn. They then tell a NASCAR official and it is relayed up until something is found. It could just be a black piece of tape rolled up, but a split second decision has to be made if it is on the racing surface with cars going by at over 160-190mph.

It's like those young teens that know nothing about life and know that their mommy just got her paycheck. They then go and beg her to buy them the new CoD because "she just got her paycheck so she has money". At the same time though she is saying she doesn't have the money to spend, because of bills. In NASCAR the officials are the mom, and the viewers complaining about the debris cautions are the young clueless teens. There's more that goes on besides what you see on your screen, and when someone says "people are saying there is debris in turn 3", whether it is there or not, they will call the caution because they don't always have time to go and put a camera on there and pan through just to find a spring rubber sitting there.

As for your silly WWF comment. NASCAR gave driver's the ability to settle it out themselves, sadly the young and clueless drivers take it out on track in the worst of ways. Blame NASCAR all you want, but at the end of the day it is the driver's fault. Are you going to blame Germany for their autobahn when someone gets in a car crash because they are driving too fast? No, you blame the driver.

Instead of trying to find a negative in everything, try to see how the championship has played out and how cool it is to see the final race having the top 2 in the championship seperated by less than a handful of points (3).

On that note, gotta be up in less than 4.5 hours, bed time.

I'm not trying to sound patronizing, (and although I wrote it like that) I didn't mean to generalize, it's just frustrating because the US are just like everyone else, except when it comes to things that are akin to what can only be described as pantomime drama. For everyone else it's plastic and awkward, but for America and NASCAR fans AS A WHOLE - This is good enough. This is acceptable. It gets reflected in most other places of the world as a TV show rather than a sport. VICKERS SAID HE'S GONNA TAKE OUT KENSETH? FIND OUT THE RESULT THIS WEEKEND!

I ****in love NASCAR interms of the specifications, the tracks and the style of racing but then they start wrecking each other intentionally for revenge and then you just think what's the point watching this when the most talented guys on the grid can't fight for a win because someone has beef that they got squeezed, can't deal with it like a man and have to revenge wreck.

At the end of the day, when someone goes out and murders someone how can you blame the authorities? You can't and your theory is correct, but the point is in NASCARs case, they are an authority who are allowing knifes and guns to be carried by everyone, thus these murders happens. That's when you start blaming the controlling authority (in this case a sporting-body).

If NASCAR want a cleaner sport, they can make it that way to be honest the racing is so close in NASCAR I really don't understand why people need to see revenge wrecks and tit-for-tat contact to spice things up.

I'm not hating on anyone, but I'm sure about 90 of people from outside the Americas agree with my general opinion of NASCAR. It just doesn't seem professional enough (ON TRACK) as it could, should and needs to be.
Quote from PMD9409 :NASCAR gave driver's the ability to settle it out themselves, sadly the young and clueless drivers take it out on track in the worst of ways. Blame NASCAR all you want, but at the end of the day it is the driver's fault. Are you going to blame Germany for their autobahn when someone gets in a car crash because they are driving too fast? No, you blame the driver.

I don't think that's a fair comparison. A more appropriate comparison would be about a boxing fight where the referee lets the fighters settle any illegal punches themselves. Do you think the fighters will aim for the groin areas more or less if the referee basically lets it happen without any consequence?

As a sanctioning body it is nascar's job to do their thing if the going gets too tough. I think it is just pure hypocrisy from nascar's part when vickers gets nothing and kyle gets hit hard for the same offence. Sure it is the drivers' fault but it is nascar's job to dish out some punishments when drivers make mistakes. In the end it is the nascar's "doing nothing" approach that has lead to this situation anyways.
Quote from PMD9409 :Are you going to blame Germany for their autobahn when someone gets in a car crash because they are driving too fast?

If you knew what currently is discussed by politicians here in Germany.

By the way... Kaselowski fined with 25.000 US$ because he criticised the EFI-engine. Strange what NASCAR penalises.
Quote from BlueFlame :they are an authority who are allowing knifes and guns to be carried by everyone, thus these murders happens. That's when you start blaming the controlling authority (in this case a sporting-body).

I think everybody should own a gun and a knife . It's proven to reduce crime.

In any event, NASCAR has more control than what a government does in reality. NASCAR has absolute authority and can do anything they want without question, and they have the power to let no crime go unpunished because they can discover all crimes and fully investigate them.

This is why 'disarming' all of the competitors would lead to a cleaner sport where as disarming citizens in reality would lead to more crime.

I think NASCAR should stop absolute revenge wrecking, but allow the general bumping and pushing as punishment from competitors. The absolute crashing of another competitor should not be allowed however. It's a fine line that I'd like to see NASCAR try and walk, but I don't think they will try it. We'll see next year if they continue to rule the events like they do.
Quote from BlueFlame :I'm not trying to sound patronizing, (and although I wrote it like that) I didn't mean to generalize, it's just frustrating because the US are just like everyone else, except when it comes to things that are akin to what can only be described as pantomime drama. For everyone else it's plastic and awkward, but for America and NASCAR fans AS A WHOLE - This is good enough. This is acceptable. It gets reflected in most other places of the world as a TV show rather than a sport. VICKERS SAID HE'S GONNA TAKE OUT KENSETH? FIND OUT THE RESULT THIS WEEKEND!

We don't "accept" it, we "ignore" it. We are use to it living here where advertising and marketing seems to be everything. People looking in from the outside get caught on those things because they are not use to it. And that quote has never been said, or any quote like that for that matter.

Quote :
I ****in love NASCAR interms of the specifications, the tracks and the style of racing but then they start wrecking each other intentionally for revenge and then you just think what's the point watching this when the most talented guys on the grid can't fight for a win because someone has beef that they got squeezed, can't deal with it like a man and have to revenge wreck.

At the end of the day, when someone goes out and murders someone how can you blame the authorities? You can't and your theory is correct, but the point is in NASCARs case, they are an authority who are allowing knifes and guns to be carried by everyone, thus these murders happens. That's when you start blaming the controlling authority (in this case a sporting-body).

If they allowed knifes and guns, then Kyle Busch wouldn't have been penalized. He wouldn't have sponsors leaving him and NASCAR wouldn't say that he is out of NASCAR permanently if he pulls another one of those revenge wrecks. It's more like NASCAR is allowing possible fist fights, yet the young guns bring knifes and guns to ruin the party.

Yet they aren't getting away with it. This could be the last race you see Vickers in a Cup car this weekend. He's out of a ride next season, and no one will take him in due to his actions on track. Sponsors won't back a person who acts like a fool on track, that's why Vickers, and Steven Wallace in Nationwide, might not be returning (full-time) next season in any NASCAR series.

Quote from Hyperactive :I don't think that's a fair comparison. A more appropriate comparison would be about a boxing fight where the referee lets the fighters settle any illegal punches themselves. Do you think the fighters will aim for the groin areas more or less if the referee basically lets it happen without any consequence?

As a sanctioning body it is nascar's job to do their thing if the going gets too tough. I think it is just pure hypocrisy from nascar's part when vickers gets nothing and kyle gets hit hard for the same offence. Sure it is the drivers' fault but it is nascar's job to dish out some punishments when drivers make mistakes. In the end it is the nascar's "doing nothing" approach that has lead to this situation anyways.

They probably would aim more, but that won't get more fan base and that's how NASCAR works. There's karma that comes along with wrecking someone, you will lose your ride just like Vickers is going to. Sure, NASCAR should step in more, but at the end of the season where the driver's future is pretty certain (of not happening) you can just let it run its course.

Quote from TFalke55 :By the way... Kaselowski fined with 25.000 US$ because he criticised the EFI-engine. Strange what NASCAR penalises.

He slandered the idea with false information, how is that strange?


Anyways
Quote :"Boys, have at it" was coined by NASCAR vice president of competition Robin Pemberton during a news conference in January 2010, and it's set the tone for how NASCAR has officiated its races the past 18 months. After admitting they had "overregulated" the competition by punishing drivers for on-track behavior, NASCAR told drivers it was allowing them more latitude in "self-policing," i.e. bumping and banging fenders on the track to send messages without fear of facing repercussions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w-KikLBXi0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lysI2xmm_4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS5TS30o9rA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqh0ozO48oI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v ... cBWlU&feature=related (BF'd him)

This was the last multi-race rivalry which didn't result in stupid driving. Sure, they spun each other a couple of times, but it is nothing like it is now.

In the 70s, 80s and 90s, rubbing fenders was the norm. People would crash, but it wasn't this crazy revenge stuff we have now. Instead the drivers would go toe to toe after race. Doesn't always mean they will fight, but they will settle it face to face most of the time. Now the younger crowd is just a bunch of pussies and decide to wrecking people on track instead of talking it out. I don't mind some stuff, little car to car push after the race, but plowing people under caution or plowing someone so hard that you also go into the wall is just stupid.

NASCAR will probably have some things "cleared up" this off-season. Stuff like this doesn't happen. The line of "boys have at it" was crossed by a wide margin, and it will probably now be clarified in more detail. If not, oh well, Vickers won't be in the Cup series anymore to cause half the cautions.


Oh ****, late for class!
Brian France is scheduled to address the media at 12:15 EST (in 5 min). I assume he'll just talk about the championship, but I guess I'll listen in and see if he has anything interesting to say since I'm stuck in Study Hall here at school ...
France gave me the impression that they do alot of things that we do not see behind the curtain. This makes me feel better about the direction that the sport is going honestly on a National standpoint. Internationally is a different story, but I could careless.

Frace also stated that he would like to see the total elimination of tandem drafting by the Daytona 500.
Quote from PMD9409 :We don't "accept" it, we "ignore" it. We are use to it living here where advertising and marketing seems to be everything. People looking in from the outside get caught on those things because they are not use to it. And that quote has never been said, or any quote like that for that matter.



Well in a sense by ignoring it is a form of acceptance in that you accept it happens and nothing can be done to stop it once it already started but aside from that small detail I can't really disagree with anything you've said here but I think you've got more of a 'euro' mentality yourself since you clearly don't like these intentional wrecks as much as I don't.

One thing is sure though, there has to be a line drawn, if there's no line, then nobody can cross it so anything goes and NASCAR should be a little less open ended about the "have at it" demeanor. I don't nessecarily mind some nudge-for-nudge racing but it has to be relative to the preceding incident, Vickers is probably the worst example of a NASCAR driver, but I'll let you know, it's not him that gives me this opinion.

They should just set a simple do NOT rule of don't turn another driver around intentionally at least and no heavy contact. To me the spectacle of a sport is in the talent and the showcase of talent from the performers and because of some of the wrecks we've seen agains drivers like Hornaday and Kenseth we've been denied of good racing and a good showcase of oval racing talent.
Practice was rained out for the Cup Series yesterday. Scheduled to be starting up right about now
Yeah I think I am going to pretty much watch this stuff all day today. Last night was good, rain didn't change the outcome IMO.

EDIT: Florida showers starting up again...
Pretty sexy Nationwide race if I do say so myself I'm ready for tomorrow Edwards all the way
Anyone know of a livestream link?


Help greatly appreciated.
Quote from BlueFlame :Anyone know of a livestream link?


Help greatly appreciated.

Can you watch RaceBuddy on nascar.com? Not sure if they restrict that by country or not, if not there's always a justin.tv stream up at race time.

Rain forecast looks iffy, they'll definitely get the race in I think but a delay or two wouldn't surprise me. Could be good for me, I was going to skip hockey today but maybe I can still play if the race gets delayed haha.
hahaha :P I would like to say that today is the biggest day of the year for NASCAR, but in reality, that is still the Daytona 500, but the atmosphere is electric today. Or maybe that's just my own excitement

Anyways, I'm ready for this! This is one of my favorite tracks by the way
Quote from UncleBenny :Can you watch RaceBuddy on nascar.com? Not sure if they restrict that by country or not, if not there's always a justin.tv stream up at race time.

Rain forecast looks iffy, they'll definitely get the race in I think but a delay or two wouldn't surprise me. Could be good for me, I was going to skip hockey today but maybe I can still play if the race gets delayed haha.

Yea Racebuddy restricts to NA only, I can't find a proxy for it though.
Stewart seems to have had debris from the #22's engine go through the grill, but it didn't enter the radiator thankfully.

1 Delay for rain so far anyways

2011 NASCAR Season
(1062 posts, started )
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