1) who drives at the limit on roads to experience any handling anyway?
2) because obviously racing compounds can be compared to road tyres

also chances are that when youre going from some kind of high performance summer tyre to a winter tyre the summer one will have a softer compound since it doesnt have to support as complicated and deep a thread pattern as the winter one

Update to my S13
- Ordered HSD coilovers at DriftWorks
- Welded diff is now mounted
- Car had an new lick of paint on the inside

http://i270.photobucket.com/al ... roFish1337/DSC_0019-2.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/al ... PyroFish1337/DSC_0012.jpg
http://i270.photobucket.com/al ... PyroFish1337/DSC_0013.jpg

Looking good, Scrabby!

Not so much of a problem over here in the UK to be honest, tyres are tyres, whatever time of year it is.

Quote from Shotglass :

1) who drives at the limit on roads to experience any handling anyway?

I do, whenever it's safe to do it. Meaning when i come to a piece of road where i can see far ahead and there's no other cars visible in a long distance. In places where i won't fall off a cliff or drive into a wall or flip the car. It's rare opportunities nowadays with all the cars on the road, but there's still quite a few nice and twisty roads around where i live that are not as busy.

I thought you had an MR2... don't tell me you're not pushing the car when it's safe to do so. I mean, it's ok if you don't... but i for sure didn't buy a sportscar to drive it in the same way i drive my vw polo.

Quote from Shotglass :

2) because obviously racing compounds can be compared to road tyres

It's just rubber. You as a person who loves logic, physics, blablah... should actually understand how simple the issue really is.

Quote from danthebangerboy :

Not so much of a problem over here in the UK to be honest, tyres are tyres, whatever time of year it is.

Yea, it's always wet and rainy there anyways, so summer tires are never necessary.

Quote from jibber :

I thought you had an MR2... don't tell me you're not pushing the car when it's safe to do so. I mean, it's ok if you don't... but i for sure didn't buy a sportscar to drive it in the same way i drive my vw polo.

the idea of pushing the car i drive got a whole lot scarier after i got the mr2
the potenzas that the previous owner put on it just have way too much outright grip to make pushing the car even remotely safe in the dry regardless of the outside temperature

Quote :

It's just rubber. You as a person who loves logic, physics, blablah... should actually understand how simple the issue really is.

except it isnt
racing tyres and f1 tyres in particular are notoriously fussy about the temperatures theyll work at in exactly the same way road legal tyres arent

Quote from Shotglass :

the idea of pushing the car i drive got a whole lot scarier after i got the mr2
the potenzas that the previous owner put on it just have way too much outright grip to make pushing the car even remotely safe in the dry regardless of the outside temperature

Ok, let's put it very simple then...

Imagine a perfectly smooth and wide 180 degree corner which would "fit" your MR2 in a way so you'd be in good rpm range and at a fitting speed (to have enough momentum and power to break the rear traction and get the car sideways). Imagine there would be no cars around and on both sides of the road flat grass. Worst that could happen is that you end up in a field with dirty tyres. Your car cannot be this unsafe to not try pushing it in such a situation... otherwise there's something wrong with it IMO.

Quote from Shotglass :

except it isnt
racing tyres and f1 tyres in particular are notoriously fussy about the temperatures theyll work at in exactly the same way road legal tyres arent

And now it's my turn... rubbish!

If you want to start nitpicking, yes, there sure is a difference. In the end however, it's still just rubber.

Rubber, no matter the "quality", will be affected by temperature. I guess we both agree about that. Now you may say: "but the difference is so little on road tyres, etc", and it may be a lot smaller of a difference than with racing tyres indeed. It is still a big enough difference to make summer tyres in winter less safe tho.

You can say all you want about this one... but all my experience with summer tyres in too cold temperatures tell me that you're talking rubbish.

every single test that has actually comapred summer tyres against winter tyres at low temperature on non snowy conditions has come up with shorter stopping distances for the summer tyres so clearly they offer better safety

Here is my car. Average age of a Buick owner is over 60 yrs old. Real men don't care about speed... it's all about comfort. :-)

I think Shotglass is right, winter tires are a softer compound than summer ones, and made for colder temperatures:figuren04. Thats why you shouldn't wear them all year.

I even seem to remember that wannabe streetracers put on winter tires, to get off the line better:eclipsee_

Quote from Shotglass :

every single test that has actually comapred summer tyres against winter tyres at low temperature on non snowy conditions has come up with shorter stopping distances for the summer tyres so clearly they offer better safety

You have again not understood what i'm talking about. I'm going to say it one more time, and then i'll give up trying to explain it to you...

It's not about performance! I said above already... it's well possible that you have more grip with summer tyres in the winter. The problem occurs when you go over the limit when you're confronted with terrible handling characteristics because of the rubber compound that is too hard in cold temperatures.

The transition from grip won't be as smooth anymore. It feels more like you're driving with old tyres, they tend to act in the same way... because of the same reason, rubber is getting too hard. Is it that hard to understand? Dear lord...

While winter tyres maybe have less grip, they have a softer compound that will make the tyre behave smooth at the limit when temperatures are cold. Therefor, winter tyres in cold temperature have a safer handling than summer tyres.

But yeah, have fun with your summer tyres and bad handling. It won't matter, since your MR2 has such fenomenal grip, you'll never reach the limit anyway, so you wouldn't have the slightest clue of what i'm talking about.

That's it, you tell him :P Why does it really matter if some random guy on a discussion forum doesn't understand? Why not just let it be, and accept that he doesn't see it in the same way as you?

Over here there really isn't such a thing as summer and winter tyres, if you have semi-slicks most have another set of proper road tyres for the winter but other than that, no-one chnages tyres for different seasons. Because it is not needed. Just don't drive like a dick and you'll be fine, simple as that really.

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Over here there really isn't such a thing as summer and winter tyres, if you have semi-slicks most have another set of proper road tyres for the winter but other than that, no-one chnages tyres for different seasons. Because it is not needed. Just don't drive like a dick and you'll be fine, simple as that really.

They are needed when there is snow on the road and you are going up a mountain in austria, you won't get up there with a 2wd if you don't have winter tyres/chains.

Im not talking about austria, he said we should use them in the UK, which ive explained they are not needed ffs. Where did you get austria from?

I actually meant mountains/hills plus snow in general, then winter tyres are needed for most cars.

Yeha maybe they are not usefull in the UK.

Quote from Michael Denham :

That's it, you tell him :P Why does it really matter if some random guy on a discussion forum doesn't understand? Why not just let it be, and accept that he doesn't see it in the same way as you?

I see what you did there...

The reason i kept posting in such an attitude is because shotglass is like thai people sometimes, can't admit something even if it's clear as the sky that they're wrong. It's annoying. Then again, my posts may be annoying too.

Haha, I don't find him or you annoying at all, I just see how frustrating it is when you can't get someone to see it from your point of view, and think "why bother"?

And as this is the post a pic of your car thread, here's one of the day I bought my car in 2001 I've moved house 4 times since then but never changed my car. It had 90,000km then and now it has 260,000! But nothing has broken

Quote from jibber :

You have again not understood what i'm talking about. I'm going to say it one more time, and then i'll give up trying to explain it to you...

It's not about performance! I said above already... it's well possible that you have more grip with summer tyres in the winter. The problem occurs when you go over the limit when you're confronted with terrible handling characteristics because of the rubber compound that is too hard in cold temperatures.

1) you talked about being safe which is exactly what a braking distance test is about
2) a proerly done brake distance test is done right at or a little over (with non abs cars) the limit
3) when i was still driving the punto which has summer tyres year round that had little grip so that you were able to go to the limit of the tyres without going at speeds that were well over the speed limit or the limit of what can be considered remotely sensible i often took corners at the limit year round and there never was any noticeable difference in the cars handling between -10° or +25°
4) again high performance tyres probably use softer compounds than most winter tyres since they can get away with it due to simpler flatter thread patterns
5) winter tyres usually are less wide than summer ones to achieve higher pressure on the snow which leads to better snow grip but also leads to less dry grip

Quote :

The transition from grip won't be as smooth anymore. It feels more like you're driving with old tyres, they tend to act in the same way... because of the same reason, rubber is getting too hard. Is it that hard to understand? Dear lord...

no but that doesnt mean its true

Quote :

since your MR2 has such fenomenal grip, you'll never reach the limit anyway, so you wouldn't have the slightest clue of what i'm talking about.

could you stop pulling things out of your arse which achieves nothing other than making you look like a proper numpty? i never said any of that

Quote from Michael Denham :

Haha, I don't find him or you annoying at all, I just see how frustrating it is when you can't get someone to see it from your point of view, and think "why bother"?

And as this is the post a pic of your car thread, here's one of the day I bought my car in 2001 I've moved house 4 times since then but never changed my car. It had 90,000km then and now it has 260,000! But nothing has broken

Looks to be in pretty mint condition for 260,000 Km

You obviously look after it well or it would have faded to pink by now

Quote from pearcy_2k7 :

Im not talking about austria, he said we should use them in the UK, which ive explained they are not needed ffs. Where did you get austria from?

My Dad used to put snow tyres on our Golf when we first moved out into the countryside, without them we'd never have gotten anywhere as our roads are the very last to get cleared. Not really needed these days, the spells of snow never seem to last as long as they used to!!

Although for the few days we had bad snow at the start of the year up here a fair few talentless people could have done with some after they blocked some of the roads with there full throttle wheelspin attempts at getting up hills...

Quote from JO53PHS :

Looks to be in pretty mint condition for 260,000 Km

You obviously look after it well or it would have faded to pink by now

Quote from Michael Denham :

And as this is the post a pic of your car thread, here's one of the day I bought my car in 2001

:P That was taken when I got the car... But it still looks pretty similar now, I will have to get a pic with the hardtop I recently bought for it.

Oh.. anyway.. nice car still

@shotglass: I'll give up (explaining) now.