I really believe the Bourdais pentalty to be bogus, but...

Devil's Advocate: Isn't there a great big blinking blue light at the end of the pit lane?

There's also a marshal at the pit exit who'll show a blue flag to the driver exiting, if there's traffic.

Which is probably why Bourdais hugged the inside of T1 as much as possible...

The reason Bourdais was penalized was clearly for Massa to gain an extra point, this stuff makes me so angry.. It's just so obvious, we need to do something about it. If we stop watching F1 then theres a little part we can play, sure we can still readup on F1, therefore not exiting intrest entirely. I just think something needs to be done real soon to oust Max Mosely.. The fact he's a self-confessed Nazi and he's working tongue to arse with Italians is highly ironic in my opinion.. It's just a joke.. I don't understand why the teams in F1 aren't going crazy, presumably because Toro Rosso use Ferrari's engines they won't make a fuss. Which is sad. I don't know why McLaren don't complain more, the fact the team had a penalty last year was clearly bullsh*t too. Just because they have well, had more money than everyone else but Honda and Toyota. We need to put up a fight somehow, if the teams won't do it, I bloody will. I'll kill Mosley with my bear hands, I hate that man. Just his attitude.. His face. I HATE IT. Can't somebody kill this fool, where is Mr.T when you need him?

Quote from srdsprinter :

I really believe the Bourdais pentalty to be bogus, but...

Devil's Advocate: Isn't there a great big blinking blue light at the end of the pit lane?

Why would there be a blue light? He was racing for position with Massa.

Yeah, the blue light indicates traffic on the straight. It isn't an instruction to concede a position, and if it were it would have been wrongly issued to Bourdais because, as has been said, he was racing Massa for position.

The penalty IS bogus. Nobody is suggesting otherwise, because nobody wants to look stupid. Except the FIA, of course. I don't think they're even saying that it was correctly given. All they're saying is that Bourdais gets 25 seconds, Massa gets promoted and it's their final decision.

I really have to disagree with the people who say that the FIA stewarding is inconsistent. The FIA stewarding is not inconsistent at all. It only appears to be inconsistent when you use the wrong comparitive tools of reason and fairness, falsely assuming that the motive is to achieve an honourable result. When you use the correct comparitive tools, recognise that the intention is to guarantee or improve the chances of Ferrari winning the championship while disregarding fairness or any measure of the honourable win, the recent stewards' decisions have all been perfectly consistent.

Quote from BlueFlame :

The reason Bourdais was penalized was clearly for Massa to gain an extra point, this stuff makes me so angry.. It's just so obvious, we need to do something about it. If we stop watching F1 then theres a little part we can play, sure we can still readup on F1, therefore not exiting intrest entirely. I just think something needs to be done real soon to oust Max Mosely.. The fact he's a self-confessed Nazi and he's working tongue to arse with Italians is highly ironic in my opinion.. It's just a joke.. I don't understand why the teams in F1 aren't going crazy, presumably because Toro Rosso use Ferrari's engines they won't make a fuss. Which is sad. I don't know why McLaren don't complain more, the fact the team had a penalty last year was clearly bullsh*t too. Just because they have well, had more money than everyone else but Honda and Toyota. We need to put up a fight somehow, if the teams won't do it, I bloody will. I'll kill Mosley with my bear hands, I hate that man. Just his attitude.. His face. I HATE IT. Can't somebody kill this fool, where is Mr.T when you need him?

im in

common role up, role up, who wants a part of history!! , down with mosley!!!!

i will email you some plans out blueflame, you know when where and how ...

but really somthing has got to be done here, but then again where that kind of cash is involved, its a hard call

Ok guys all this 'doing it for Ferrari' is a load of b******t, come on.

The decisions are bogus because the people that make them know nothing about racing. They probably see it as, Massa spun Bourdais didn't, therefore.....

Think of how a person you know at work, Uni, school etc (that has only seen a few races of ANY motorsport) would see them. Probably come up with the same judgements. They see Massa-Hamilton and Massa-Bourdais incidents as almost identical, and think "hey, what Hamilton did there at turn 1 was just....well........UNFAIR! sniff.

Mosley needs to make the decision to go back to the old system, despite the battering he got for that one aswell it was MUCH better.

Quote from SAxor :

The decisions are bogus because the people that make them know nothing about racing. They probably see it as, Massa spun Bourdais didn't, therefore.....

Wrong, 3 are appointed by the circuit - in the UK this would be an MSA clerk (the FIA-recognised governing body of racing in the UK), with their overseer who tells them who to penalise being a corrupt Labour (socialist UK political party currently in power) European Minister who plays paddy-cake with Mosley.

Quote :

Mosley needs to make the decision to go back to the old system, despite the battering he got for that one aswell it was MUCH better.

The one before this system, the year when the stewards where fixed and worked under Charlie Whiting, that was fair and worked well without much controversy. Sadly this didn't yield the results the FIA wanted so they went back to having local stewards again, but with Mosley's right hand man making the calls as per instructions delivered to him from Mosley by a BSDM prostitute wearing a historically significant arm band.

Quote from Gizz :

im in

common role up, role up, who wants a part of history!! , down with mosley!!!!

i will email you some plans out blueflame, you know when where and how ...

but really somthing has got to be done here, but then again where that kind of cash is involved, its a hard call

It just actually makes me angry, to think that it seems the FIA, or even just Mosley cannot be stopped. It's so obvious why they penalized Bourdais, they just had a reason to since they made contact, just to give Massa an extra point, it couldn't be more clear... It's black and white. Something has to be done, because it's even worse than in Schumacher days now I feel, as the drivers aren't as good, the FIA seem to carry them using unbelievable methods of promoting Ferrari drivers through bogus penalties.

Heidfelds piped up, http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71423

Quote from SAxor :

Heidfelds piped up, http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71423

"Last year, permanent steward Tony-Scott Andrews stood down from his position at the end of the season. That led to a restructuring of the organisation, with FIA president Max Mosley's representative Alan Donnelly providing a permanent advisory function to the three stewards appointed at each event."

How completely dodgey does that sound! (not even in hindsight?)

I have to agree with SamH & Co. - there is a definate policy regarding stewards decisions (this year at least) that they should, under whatever circumstances, favour the Prancing Horse in all matters. It is now so blatant as to be laughable.

I didn't really want to believe this up until last weekend, but there can be no denial now.

MoSSley shouldn't be trusted with a blunt tin opener never mind a position of authority in one of the worlds richest sports. A corrupt weasel of a man guilty of undeniabley causing long term damage to the credibility of F1.

Its the drivers I feel sorriest for. The teams made this bed, by hook or by crook, if they wanted to they could revolt en masse. The sooner the better imo. They nearly did last time until Ferrari buckled and signed the concorde agreement. Coincidence?

I'm sure it'll all be much better when JT takes over.......

Quote from BlueFlame :

It just actually makes me angry, to think that it seems the FIA, or even just Mosley cannot be stopped. It's so obvious why they penalized Bourdais, they just had a reason to since they made contact, just to give Massa an extra point, it couldn't be more clear... It's black and white. Something has to be done, because it's even worse than in Schumacher days now I feel, as the drivers aren't as good, the FIA seem to carry them using unbelievable methods of promoting Ferrari drivers through bogus penalties.

blueflame, i totaly agree 100% m8 this has got out of hand now, you carnt call it racing anymore, if every time a snooker player pots a ball the ref is pulling it back out the pocket, then its no longer snooker, its just watching the other guy CONSISTANTLY get a advantage...

=-=-=-

nice to see the other drivers are showing SOME concern now, and lets hope next year will be different, i dont hold any hope for these 2 remaining races, but we will see..

Well if all the drivers get vocal about the current steward situation (except Massa and Kimi of course) then maybe they can pressure a change.

Reading Heidfelds article the current system is just asking for trouble in every way.

Quote from DaveWS :

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?id=44292

I hope discussion like this can lead to some kind of change

Though the end of that article is a bit hazy...

If anything bernie must be really really happy with this stewarding. People finally talk about F1. So if it is a boring race at least the aftermath is something interesting. I mean, for publicity they couldn't find a better way. That's all they really care about with F1

hehe.. Briatore is now basically saying that he supports Ferrari because he's an Italian, and because of the relationship that Renault has with Ferrari, and because Renault were falsely accused of espionage by McLaren. He says it was "a silly thing that didn't exist". Errr.. what?

Flavio Briatore needs to shut his fat mouth right up. I read on another website today, him making personal attacks against Lewis Hamilton, calling him an alien, and saying things like "if he was a footballer, he'd be the type that never scored goals". Seriously, these things are childish - and people say that Lewis doesn'y deserve the WDC, but with the amount of mouthing off going on, I can't think of anybody else that is even remotely as deserving.

well as its been said on here before from some british folk.

i was half backing lewis purely because he's british ... and got half a chance, given the option though i would still like to see JB win the WDC one day but thats a different box of eggs..

the point is, now even after some of LH's silly remarks and silly race days, i hope he wins even more now and purely for the wrong reasons..

all these knob heads spouting off and the FIA playing there usual game, i just want to see there faces if LH lifts the WDC, i know, wrong reasons for backing someone, i know its bad but i carnt help it now.

its a shame cus LH has actualy gone DOWN in my book a little, but i want him to win more than ever, damnit F1 has even currupted me....

i need a hug

I think Hamilton needs to leave a bit more of his karting behaviour and mentality behind, tbh, because it's not helping him in his F1 career. Although I didn't think it warranted a penalty, his first corner last week wasn't F1-standard at all.

I think Briatore is actually trying to appeal publicly to Alonso. The more anti-McLaren he is, the more appealing Renault will be to Alonso. Alonso despises McLaren/Dennis and Briatore recognises that.

I have this overwhelming feeling that Jenson Button is on borrowed time. I'm absolutely sure he's not champion material and I'm not sure he's really got much if anything more in him than he's showing now. I think it suits him that the Honda isn't a good car because he's able to hide behind the chassis, but I suspect that Ross Braun is wise to that and I wouldn't be surprised if Button's seat is the one that's up for grabs if Alonso jumps.

I'd love for the teams to completely reject the new engine regulation proposals. I'm betting Ferrari will win the tender and everyone else will shudder in disgust and walk away. Mercedes and Renault would surely never accept a Ferrari engine in their cars - even if it were built by them, the stigma of not being entirely responsible for their F1 car would carry into the showroom. Boasting another manufacturer's engine design in your F1 car is no boast at all, and it is simply not the way for F1 to go. It only works for Toro Rosso because Red Bull doesn't make cars.

Well, you never know what's going to happen when Flavio opens his mouth. Call him arrogant or ignorant but at least he speaks his mind. If he bothers to say anything, that is

Quote from SamH :

I'd love for the teams to completely reject the new engine regulation proposals. I'm betting Ferrari will win the tender and everyone else will shudder in disgust and walk away. Mercedes and Renault would surely never accept a Ferrari engine in their cars

That would make it a Ferrari engine on a mclaren ECU just to keep it simple of course

Quote from robt :

That would make it a Ferrari engine on a mclaren ECU just to keep it simple of course

The difference being that Ferrari make cars, and McLaren don't.

The part owners of McLaren do though.