Quote from Maelstrom :

No i mean
120 (2/3) (1eye) + 60 (1/3) (2eyes)

Im prety sure (not completely) that one eye sees more than 60, because then our vision would not mesh completely or properly in the center, or where the view of each eye meets(usually at the nose).

Quote from Gil07 :

Sorry, but that's absolute rubbish How can flying behind a car be realistic?

Carry on...

The answer below pretty much descibes it, I`m talking about the physics. You don`t gain any physics advatages by using a other camera angel.

Quote from zeugnimod :

He obviously wanted to say the realism of the physics.

Thanks for clearing it up

Quote from Californian :

I can't understand this topic

Seriously why can it bother someone so much?
Is disturbing someone that other people use different view?
I mean it's funny how some people think, really

I prefer cockpit view but seriously some of drivers prefer not to use cockpit view and how can it bother someone?
It doesn't give any advantages (I think it doesn't as you can feel your car much better while using cockpit view) and it's there and nobody is forced to use it so if you don't like to use it don't use it then, but really forced cockpit view is the last thing that you need in this game because with it you couldn't look at things like you can now and the game would be much more boring.

Realism you say but hey, think twice, it's a game and you can't get out of your car when you have to look at the back of your car etc. or look at the surroundings so you need different views. This kind of ideas are just funny because the owners of them don't think it all the way throught or they are thinking too black & white

BTW: Happy holidays to all!

Thanks for this post, someone should really pay attention to it and read it. Camrea angels are a matter of choise, I don`t see why people can moan about this.

And something to think about, when you limit the choises in a game, you shrinks and limits it`s community and drivers, sure, remove anything that ain`t cockpit. But then you in worst case may lose as much as 10-20% of the community. We are not that small group of players that use something else than cockpit veiw.

I like a sim mode whit only cockpit view. Like in GTR2

Quote from The Very End :

And something to think about, when you limit the choises in a game, you shrinks and limits it`s community and drivers, sure, remove anything that ain`t cockpit. But then you in worst case may lose as much as 10-20% of the community. We are not that small group of players that use something else than cockpit veiw.

I don't care if you choose to leave, you're gaining an unfair and unrealistic advantage by being able to see far far more than you should be able to and make Scawen's attempts to make the cockpit look more realistic a complete joke.

Quote from The Very End :

And something to think about, when you limit the choises in a game, you shrinks and limits it`s community and drivers, sure, remove anything that ain`t cockpit. But then you in worst case may lose as much as 10-20% of the community. We are not that small group of players that use something else than cockpit veiw.

If 80-90% of people are already using the cockpit view then how is it that hard for the rest of you to use it? The rest of us don't have any trouble seeing where we're going.

Yeah sure.
Like we`re gaining any advatages. We can see further ahead yes, but that isn`t anything drastically. What about those mirrows that you have?

Being able to see over the cars in front and down the next straight or around the next bend is a big advantage if you can avoid an obstruction rather than run into it.

And from a racers point of view - mirrors are handy but what is behind you don't matter, getting past you is their problem

Quote from Polyracer :

Being able to see over the cars in front and down the next straight or around the next bend is a big advantage if you can avoid an obstruction rather than run into it.

And from a racers point of view - mirrors are handy but what is behind you don't matter, getting past you is their problem

Do you have specific problems overtaking this drivers ?
How was it like when you didn't had the F12 key ?
I think you and others must have a mental block dealing with this.

Quote from fujiwara :

Do you have specific problems overtaking this drivers ?
How was it like when you didn't had the F12 key ?
I think you and others must have a mental block dealing with this.

Don't have a mental prob at all - if you want to drive your car whilst hanging from a glider that is fastened to your rear bumper - perhaps it someone else that has mental probs.

I don't give a toss how you drive your car, if you can't handle driving from the seat like most real cars are driven (really its true, honest), then that's up to you - but don't tell me that there is no advantage in driving with swingcam, you are kidding yourself - but not me.

As far as I'm concerned if you use swingcam you are playing a driving "game", like some newby ten year old, - get in the seat and sweat it out like the rest of us.

You think its harder - yeah sure it is, but at least you aint got a full face helmet restricting your view - as does your seat, and your movement aint restricted by umpteen layers of fireproof clothing, - and you aint a physical wreck after just a couple of laps of the extreme forces that a real driver is subject to.

Quote from Polyracer :

Don't have a mental prob at all - if you want to drive your car whilst hanging from a glider that is fastened to your rear bumper - perhaps it someone else that has mental probs.

I don't give a toss how you drive your car, if you can't handle driving from the seat like most real cars are driven (really its true, honest), then that's up to you - but don't tell me that there is no advantage in driving with swingcam, you are kidding yourself - but not me.

As far as I'm concerned if you use swingcam you are playing a driving "game", like some newby ten year old, - get in the seat and sweat it out like the rest of us.

You think its harder - yeah sure it is, but at least you aint got a full face helmet restricting your view - as does your seat, and your movement aint restricted by umpteen layers of fireproof clothing, - and you aint a physical wreck after just a couple of laps of the extreme forces that a real driver is subject to.

Still don't know what is your problem ... all you bring was the game vs sim child talk again.

Don't get upset...

Quote from The Very End :

The answer below pretty much descibes it, I`m talking about the physics. You don`t gain any physics advatages by using a other camera angel.

Rubbish. You obviously haven't driven from cockpit view a lot have you? Especially not the FBM.

Racing is so much about knowing where your opponents are so you don't cause a crash. The attachment should prove this and how the Jesus view can be a huge advantage. To pull on the left side of the road or not is the question?

And btw, it's angle. Angels have wings, fly and play harps.

Quote from The Very End :

Yeah sure.
Like we`re gaining any advatages. We can see further ahead yes, but that isn`t anything drastically. What about those mirrows that you have?

The advantage of the mirrors is debatable. If i recall correctly, the side mirrors are just the rear view mirror split in two parts (or the rear mirror is the side mirrors combined). So basically, all of us have the same mirror, yours is just floating in mid air.

Then, why don`t you use it then if you whining so much about it?
Edit - allright. No blind zone in chase veiw, thats a +.

Quote from Blackout :

Rubbish. You obviously haven't driven from cockpit view a lot have you? Especially not the FBM.

Racing is so much about knowing where your opponents are so you don't cause a crash. The attachment should prove this and how the Jesus view can be a huge advantage. To pull on the left side of the road or not is the question?

And btw, it's angle. Angels have wings, fly and play harps.



The advantage of the mirrors is debatable. If i recall correctly, the side mirrors are just the rear view mirror split in two parts (or the rear mirror is the side mirrors combined). So basically, all of us have the same mirror, yours is just floating in mid air.

I agree that all angels probly fly, but not all play harps and have wings.
At some point the car that you don't see, must have been in your MIRROR, if you can't see it no more and he's not in front of you, i'm pretty sure you know were it is.
That follow view angle is very good to make your proof, push it back, and you don't the other car too.

Well i brought the advantages into the discussion, but there are really some certain disadvantages with that view.

Well you have a better suround view, thats true.
But you only can guess whats going on behind you and only guess whether the car behind you will start an attack or not, i am often left in the situation where i prefer to open the door instead of closing it and might causing a crash, because i am not 100% sure whats going on behind me. Mirrors are definately a big advantage there.

The second disadvantage i can think of is, that you are not actually on the height of the car, thats obvious since you are flying behind the car. I actually always struggle on courses like South City because of the fact that i need to turn earlier then my actual position is and cant see round corners .

The third disadvantage which comes to my mind is a but hard to explain for me in english. But if you have driven this dynamic chase view you will know what i mean. When you are turning hard the direction of the camera is not the direction your car is actually heading to. Which combined with my second point makes it harder then in cockpit view to estimate how much you should steer and how much to use the throttle since you dont really have the actual position.
These points combined might also explain for me, why i alway have been good at Westhill and Kyoto National and always struggled to come up to pace on circuits like SO, BL and As Cadet, naming especially hairpins on other circuits where i seem to lose time...
This is no whining, just explaining that now people picking on the "huuuuuge" advantages but telling there are also these and maybe other disadvantages.

Quote from Polyracer :

and you aint a physical wreck after just a couple of laps of the extreme forces that a real driver is subject to.

You would be if you had the money for one of these?! (a light physical wreck then..but grinning from ear to ear!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYNPdjjSDrQ


Regards,

Frank

Quote from fujiwara :

At some point the car that you don't see, must have been in your MIRROR, if you can't see it no more and he's not in front of you, i'm pretty sure you know were it is.

Of course I do. Because I've learn to pay attention what is going on behind me. But if I hadn't, I could use chase view and constantly ignore what is going to happen, and what the car behind is going to do soon and stop guessing if the car is beside me because I can see it where in cockpit I had a blind spot. Going side by side to a corner I will probably going to play it safe and lift if I can't see the car I had in my mirrors moments ago.

Continuing from that. I can't help thinking if the view can actually have effect on how you overtake. At least I try to think if the car in front can see me. I take granted he is using cockpit view because I'm using that myself, and try to show myself according to that. But do chase view drivers think what it's like from the cockpit view? Or do they accidentally put themselfs to impossible places they can't be seen because they think from the chase view?

Quote :

That follow view angle is very good to make your proof, push it back, and you don't the other car too.

That should be the default chase view angle I think. I'm not sure though. But I don't understand what you mean by pushing it back more. Shouldn't you see even more like that? The other way I guess, but why would anyone use a view like that you can see more of your own car...

My main point was blind spots anyway, and I think it can be a major factor. And if you are not using the cockpit view, you are not having the LFS experience like it's meant to.

Quote from Blackout :

Of course I do. Because I've learn to pay attention what is going on behind me.



Continuing from that. I can't help thinking if the view can actually have effect on how you overtake. At least I try to think if the car in front can see me. I take granted he is using cockpit view because I'm using that myself, and try to show myself according to that. But do chase view drivers think what it's like from the cockpit view? Or do they accidentally put themselfs to impossible places they can't be seen because they think from the chase view?



That should be the default chase view angle I think. I'm not sure though. But I don't understand what you mean by pushing it back more. Shouldn't you see even more like that? The other way I guess, but why would anyone use a view like that you can see more of your own car...

My main point was blind spots anyway, and I think it can be a major factor. And if you are not using the cockpit view, you are not having the LFS experience like it's meant to.

Who said follow cam's don't pay attention ? You see, i ear.
Don't tell me when you got into an accident you press the F12 key, if he's using follow, burn him, if's not he's just a normal noob ...
There's is a lot of blind spots too, a lot, that's why i mention that stupid angle, where the car is so far ahead.
What you are doing is labeling people.



The talk about real experience is rubbish, i could say the same about people using, pads, joysticks, mouses, keyboards, wheels with 2 pedals, etc.

[quote=Frankestein01nl;648657]You would be if you had the money for one of these?! (a light physical wreck then..but grinning from ear to ear!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYNPdjjSDrQ

Nah not really, the concept just don't work for me - if I had a motion simulator, it would have to be the full deal with screen attached.

Cash is not a problem, this is my chassis -

Quote from fujiwara :

Who said follow cam's don't pay attention ? You see, i ear.
Don't tell me when you got into an accident you press the F12 key, if he's using follow, burn him, if's not he's just a normal noob ...
There's is a lot of blind spots too, a lot, that's why i mention that stupid angle, where the car is so far ahead.
What you are doing is labeling people.

No, I was wondering if the camera angle can affect how people drive. Thinking out loud, provoking some opinions. I did not say it does. Or that was I was trying to, reread my post and stress the question marks. :P

Quote :

The talk about real experience is rubbish, i could say the same about people using, pads, joysticks, mouses, keyboards, wheels with 2 pedals, etc.

Yes, and I would. Anything but a wheel is not a way of controlling a car.

Quote from Blackout :

And if you are not using the cockpit view, you are not having the LFS experience like it's meant to.

OMG. Best "argument" yet.

Just let people have fun with this game (oh, I said the bad word ) the way they want it. What's so hard about that?

Quote from zeugnimod :

OMG. Best "argument" yet.

Please, try proving me wrong with a sensible counter argument if it is that easy and my comment is such a lousy "argument".

Quote :

Just let people have fun with this game (oh, I said the bad word ) the way they want it. What's so hard about that?

No. Arcade fun for the "realism nazi club" is intolerable. The fun comes from the challenge and having equal playground. Blind spots are one of those challenges. I've seen very fast racers who cannot get their head around the concept, and fail with epic proportions.

Quote from Blackout :

....."realism nazi club"...

Where do I sign up?

Quote from Blackout :

Please, try proving me wrong with a sensible counter argument if it is that easy and my comment is such a lousy "argument".

If that's the only way LFS is meant to be played why is there an option for chase view? As long as there is an option to use chase view I will drive in that way.

Quote from Blackout :

No. Arcade fun for the "realism nazi club" is intolerable. The fun comes from the challenge and having equal playground. Blind spots are one of those challenges. I've seen very fast racers who cannot get their head around the concept, and fail with epic proportions.

If you have fun driving that way, then just do it. But don't tell others how they are supposed to play.

Quote from zeugnimod :

If that's the only way LFS is meant to be played why is there an option for chase view? As long as there is an option to use chase view I will drive in that way.



If you have fun driving that way, then just do it. But don't tell others how they are supposed to play.

+1

Quote from zeugnimod :

If you have fun driving that way, then just do it. But don't tell others how they are supposed to play.

Nobody is telling anybody how they are supposed to play - unless I missed something.

I think the discussion is more about whether or not there are advantages in chase view over cockpit view.

If you choose to take it personally, thats your problem