Man, bloody well put James, I'm with you on every single point!

Quote from dawguk :

You didn't though.

Well observed

I fail to see why I'd need to use a term other than one that:

• a) adequately (if loosely) captures my meaning and;
  
• b) has 'artistic' use in the given context.
  

Quote :

Who were you directing it at then?

I did mention in my previous post, but evidently you didn't read it completely.

Quote :

You commented directly after referencing points that I made in a previous post. This, in conversational terms, is called a reply or a response.

Or, simply a misunderstanding of one's conversational intent.

Quote :

Nobody is disputing that, people are disputing the fact that Hamilton tried to gain an advantage by cutting the chicane.

They are, in fact, disputing both. Might pay to read some of the other posts in this thread, rather than the ones which are simply a direct response to your own opinions.

Quote :

This is obviously going nowhere, so let's just agree to disagree and move on, no?

I'm quite aware you're disagreeing with me, I fail to see why I need to take any further action regarding your opinion.

21 pages of debate, no general consenssus, thead stayed on topic, and now a flameware. Shame.

I see no flamewar... did I miss something?

no worries, it must have been an oxymoron

Quote from Becky Rose :

no worries, it must have been an oxymoron

Perhaps so :eek:

Sarcasm is the lowest common denominator.

I also didn't see any flame wars, just heated discussion. Forums are intended for discussion, after all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWNN5W_B-Zk

at 3.28.

Tell me when did lewis let go of the throttle to let kimi past, he had less grip thus momentum was never lost.

Quote from dawguk :

Sarcasm is the lowest common denominator.

I also didn't see any flame wars, just heated discussion. Forums are intended for discussion, after all.

But it's all I got given when born

Lewis would have probably had significant grip off the racing line. When rubber gets wet it gets EXTREMELY slippery hence why you willm see drviers take weird lines from time to time.

on slicks with a slightly damp surface the problem is x10. If Hamilton used anywhere near full throttle he would have been several car lengths ahead of Kimi byu the end of the straight.

Quote from dawguk :

Sarcasm is the lowest common denominator.

No, sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. But also the funniest.

Quote from Intrepid :

When rubber gets wet it gets EXTREMELY slippery hence why you willm see drviers take weird lines from time to time.

I would have thought you, of all people, would know why the racing line frequently differs in the wet. Guess I was wrong.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I would have thought you, of all people, would know why the racing line frequently differs in the wet. Guess I was wrong.

I could google, but I don't actually know why it changes, just that it does. I assume it has something to do with most turns having a slight inward camber meaning the water pools around the inside more than the outside, that's just a complete guess though and probably wrong. Colud you enlighten us non-racing drivers?

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

I could google, but I don't actually know why it changes, just that it does. I assume it has something to do with most turns having a slight inward camber meaning the water pools around the inside more than the outside, that's just a complete guess though and probably wrong. Colud you enlighten us non-racing drivers?

Tarmac is pourus. All the grit and gunk comes out of the cars and seeps into the tarmac. This grit is lighter than water, so when it rains the grit muck and oil all rises to the surface, hense areas of more heavily used track get more slippery than those which dont get so many cars driving on them. Unlike water which is mostly channelled away by the wet weather grooves on tyres, the oil isnt channelled, it gets squashed between the rubber and the tarmac.

It also means every bit of wet weather is unique, because it's a case of how much grit has bedded into the road.

That, and water itself isnt that grippy (although usually isnt a problem - you get as much contact with the road as you do in the dry as the tread cuts through it, but the water channels in the tyre change efficiency as you turn which can cause bubbling and lift the tyre), plus the ambient temperature is lower which caused the cars tyres to bottom out of their operating temperature range.

Just to top it off, in a single seater when you turn your front wheels you get a visor full of invibility cloak, and the impact of rain at very high speed makes a hell of a racket on your crash helmet.

Thanks for that, now I can bore my mates down the pub even more than I already do!

Back on-topic...

McLaren Spa appeal goes ahead
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70442

McLaren: FIA told us we were 'okay'
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70443

FIA steward denies McLaren conspiracy
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70440

Quote from ATC Quicksilver :

Thanks for that, now I can bore my mates down the pub even more than I already do!

I actually think it should be part of the driving test. People dont slow down when there is "only a little" rain, when really most of the grip is gone. People dont find that out because they dont normally drive near the limits of grip ... until they have to brake or swerve to avoid something that is.

Quote from Becky Rose :

I actually think it should be part of the driving test.

There are questions about it in the driving theory test.

Not in mine there weren't

I think they should make the advanced driving test's manditory if anything (skid pan etc). The majority of drivers on the road today have no idea how a car reacts over the limit, and how to control it.

Quote from DaveWS :

I think they should make the advanced driving test's manditory if anything (skid pan etc). The majority of drivers on the road today have no idea how a car reacts over the limit, and how to control it.

Actually, drivers need better observation and anticipation skills.

How many times does someone say "I didn't see you" or "but I thought you were going to do <insert action>", after a crash? Better observation and anticipation will reduce a HUGE number of crashes, far more than skid-control training.

You can avoid 99% skids by driving appropriately to road conditions, but that also requires common sense and a responsible attitude.

Quote from tristancliffe :

I can't be bothered to explain or argue, so I'm going to leave it now. But I am glad justice has been done (unless the penalty gets overturned).

I agree that a penalty of some kind was required, but I don't believe justice was done regarding the race outcome. These twenty odd pages are very interesting, a little obsessive, but ultimately of only scholastic interest.

The incident had no bearing on the final outcome of the race, since Kimi crashed out.

The official who made the decision had the choice of either giving a drive through penalty (which had to be converted to a 25 second penalty due the proximity of the chequered flag) or ten grid places in the next race. Its was a very hard decision to make, but IMHO choosing the former was an unfortunate misjudgement, skewing the race outcome in a rather absurd manner.


OFF TOPIC EDIT:

Quote :

Actually, drivers need better observation and anticipation skills.

I think that observation skills should be taught to everyone, regardless of transport choice. Its a simple thing, but transferable to all kinds of activities, and at school age, applicable to most aspects of the curriculum. In any case, I'm convinced that a populace who understood how to be aware would be able to slash accident rates dramatically.

Quote from Intrepid :

Lewis would have probably had significant grip off the racing line. When rubber gets wet it gets EXTREMELY slippery hence why you willm see drviers take weird lines from time to time.

on slicks with a slightly damp surface the problem is x10. If Hamilton used anywhere near full throttle he would have been several car lengths ahead of Kimi byu the end of the straight.

If he had full throttle at all he would end up in the wall.

Quote from DaveWS :

I think they should make the advanced driving test's manditory if anything (skid pan etc). The majority of drivers on the road today have no idea how a car reacts over the limit, and how to control it.

I'd say the driving skills are the least what to worry about when speaking of F1 drivers. I'd say that the cars are really awful on wet, not that the drivers

Quote from Hyperactive :

I'd say the driving skills are the least what to worry about when speaking of F1 drivers. I'd say that the cars are really awful on wet, not that the drivers

Yeah you'd be right, but I was a little off topic there and was referring to everyday road users.

Off-topic-ish.

If spacial awareness and observational skills were mandatory in the driving test, there would be very few women drivers. I'm not being sexist, but my god the majority of women (that I know at least) have very little awareness of their surroundings. They are more fun sometimes, but sitting in the passenger seat of their car while approaching a roundabout is not fun.