The online racing simulator
Test Patch U25: Multiplayer Updates
(364 posts, started )
Quote from DGontarz :Replacing the suspension/engines will be fun for cruise servers ... I mean to add alternative versions of all cars, where you can choose the version of the suspension between a double wishbone and McPherson, etc ... change the engine capacity or the number of cylinders

This is "online racing simulator" and not the "online lego constructor" )))
If you were actually reading Scawen's posts, you should've noticed that this is supposed to be a MINOR update. What you are asking is way out of scope for this update.
I just asking and give ideas for next updates.
Quote from aanrus :This is "online racing simulator" and not the "online lego constructor" )))

What u mean? Its normal tuning
no.
Quote from DGontarz :What u mean? Its normal tuning

No. The original of lfs - true. No tuning, more racing.
That's why this game will die Frown looks the same like 10 years ago :/ 0 new cars, only 1 new track, 0 new options, 0 freshness and only small updates that change nothing
But i still waiting for Scirocco XD!
Quote from DGontarz :That's why this game will die Frown looks the same like 10 years ago :/ 0 new cars, only 1 new track, 0 new options, 0 freshness and only small updates that change nothing

If only the games` biggest update wasn't being worked on...

Also, this is a RACING simulator, not cruise or tuning simulator. If you want tuning, go play automation and beamng. If you want proper racing... you're in this games` forum
Since you're in mood for protocol changes, may I request a small addition:
I'd like the idea of knowing how many people are spectating a certain player Smile

Right now, the ViewPLID is only part of the IS_STA packet which is pointless on dedicate hosts since nobody is watching on the server. However, the clients already report their camera parameters with the IS_CCH packet upwards to the server, so it would only take an additional byte to also report the plid of the car they're currently viewing.


struct IS_STA // STAte
{
...
byte ViewPLID; // Unique ID of viewed player (0 = none)
...
}


struct IS_CCH // Camera CHange
{
byte Size; // 8
byte Type; // ISP_CCH
byte ReqI; // 0
byte PLID; // player's unique id

byte Camera; // view identifier (see below)
byte Sp1; <<< add ViewPLID here *********************
byte Sp2;
byte Sp3;
};

But the thing is, it is so sad that this game has the best/realistic driving physics all of the games what is now out there and live for speed dont offer the cool stuff like other shitty/nonrealistic games does. Why dont give players chance to do cars and racing series what they want and grow the game big like assetto corsa has done over the years?. More players, more money to make lfs better for all of us.
I'll try some hotlaps then for all 3 GTR cars in that mode on diffirent cars to compare atleast a bit, would be good if other fadt guys would do same i guess.
Quote from chucknorris :...

Yes, this very much needed for example for showing buttons with custom lap tracking info of a spectated car.

However, a little problem with CCH packet is that for some reason there is like a 4 seconds delay before the packet is reported, whereas for example IS_CIM packets are reported immediately. But I guess it's still better than nothing even with the delay.
Quote from Scawen :No, I was trying to achieve a compromise.

It may be my bad driving or the setup but I find the FZR about 1 second faster round Blackwood than the XRR, both using the alternate config. In the previous version the difference was more like 1.5 seconds.

I think I described all this already though. Maybe I didn't give enough detail.

Did some testing with XRR and FZR with street_super tires on three tracks KY2 WE2 SO6 (didnt know what track to choose Big grin BL1 has bumpy braking zone so nightmare for me Big grin)
I'm using mouse for steering. so my throttle control are not the best but I can make so good lap times.

XRR was quite unpredictible especially out of turns when boost comes ON and rear just looses grip easy on 3-4 gear. If it's slow U turn it's manageable. But long turn when you need fast exit uh hard, turbo lag and studden power doesnt help. Had to work hard to make some decent time.

FZR was fun to drive easy going straight out the pits lot of grip, easy in turns, felt nimble. It does some wheel spin out of turns but you can predict it because it has NA engine constant torque and easy to control with throttle.


Maybe +20mm tyre width added to XRR will solve problem and I think when official version be released players will start to organise events with GTR+Street tires and then we will see real difference and maybe latter Scawen could do minor changes to tires width or something.

Overall cars had 0,8-1sec difference and had to put more effort and more laps into XRR to reduce time gap and with FZR on a 2nd hot lap already faster than XRR.
Thanks for the testing and comments.

I have been thinking and before I say this I want to emphasise that this is not checked out or guaranteed. It is just some thoughts to discuss and I would appreciate if any comments would stay on topic.

What I was thinking is maybe we could remove the whole idea of the separate configuration and instead have a couple of adjusters, for the front and rear wheels.

Each pair of wheels could have the option to go down a few tyre sizes (in steps of 10mm) and another one to add spacing (in steps of 5mm to move the wheel out a bit as it goes narrower).

I think it might be possible to do this in the same "set up car" area of code where I made the new configurations do their thing.

I would suggest this could be available on all cars except the single seaters.

When looking into this I noticed the UF1, XRG and FZR have some unrealistic tyre sizes and maybe this would be a good time to correct them. All road car tyre sizes have a section width that is a number of mm ending in the digit '5'. But with these cars I mentioned, that is not the case.

I thought to correct this, maybe:

- UF 1000 tyres could go up to 165 instead of 160
- XR GT rear could go down from 220 to 215
- FZ50 GTR tyres could be reduced by 5mm each (or maybe more - they are seriously wide)

I think the existing hotlaps could still work by avoiding this correction when loading an old replay. I hope that maybe the XR GT really doesn't need such fat rear tyres and maybe the FZ GTR doesn't need them so wide either.

If I would do the adjuster things described above, it would only be for *reducing* any tyre widths, which could help race organisers to make new categories (other than by using intake restriction and ballast) or also be useful for drifting, etc.

The extreme steering angle limit on RWD cars (for drifting) could be dynamically calculated depending on the wheel width and offset (spacing) to keep it realistic.
Quote from Scawen :...

Sounds nice to me. But regarding the hotlap tables, if the new tires for some of the cars are 5mm thinner, I suppose the times done previously by the faster guys won't be reached in this new version (if that matters).
NB: classic FZR being quicker than XRR is only due to people using autoclutch (or worse 😁), as if you want using the FZR with the clutch, good luck trying to catch a good/medium driver with an XRR 😉
Quote from Scawen :...

you mean FZ50 GTR rear tyres right?
and about having diffirent tyre size for all cars except single seaters.. i think its not necessary, because GTI/TBO/LRF/ UF GTR, XF GTR already have tyres at their tyre temperature limits in races, so more narrow tyres arent really suited for anything, i suggest just stick with changes forthose 3 GTR cars tyre change option, nothing else.
This is real size of tire is good. This will change the lap time anyway. Will maybe leave it for later? When will be released the new physics, and when all the results will be deleted. (google translate, sorry)
Quote from Flotch :...regarding the hotlap tables, if the new tires for some of the cars are 5mm thinner, I suppose the times done previously by the faster guys won't be reached in this new version (if that matters).

I suppose it does matter a bit. I was thinking maybe the XR GT and FZ GTR rear tyres are wider than they need to be and might even be faster with a thinner tyre due to lower wight and rolling resistance. But that might require a lot of testing that could be a waste of time.

Quote from Nadeo4441 :What about the h-shift pattern in XRR then?

Good point, didn't think of that.

Quote from Pathseeker :i suggest just stick with changes for those 3 GTR cars tyre change option, nothing else.

This might be the best idea, yes. But I remember race organisers use restricted UFR and XFR so maybe they would like some narrow tyres as a different type of restriction?

Quote from aanrus :Will maybe leave it for later? When will be released the new physics, and when all the results will be deleted.

That might be the best idea, yes.

One thing I am trying to do here is escape from the trouble of balancing these new categories for racing and also for drifting. If the users can adjust tyre size then there is no problem.

If we keep the configurations then it could be that the tyre size adjustment is only applied to the new configurations. So they can be balanced for racing and drifting by users after the release. But if the code is there (and I already coded a test version of tyre width reduction) then it could easily be applied to other cars too.

Thanks for the replies, I'm just trying to think this through with you.
Hmm, if it's used in this online, then that's good. But hide this possibility in this "hot lap" mod. And so, there should be a binding of the width of the tire to this mass of the car.
Quote from Scawen :...

This sounds like a fair compromise, thanks for taking the time to think things over, appreciate the updates thanks.
I like the idea. It keeps everyone happy, adds the realism of calculated steering lock, and lets servers balance new classes in the official patch instead of trying to get a bunch of people to race on a test patch server.

The FZR tryes are super wide. It looks like the race spec 911 runs 347mm rears. The widest slick I could find was 353mm for the Viper ACR. This might be better left for the "next" patch, as it re-opens the problem of balancing.

I think whatever you propose, there will be people who don't like it, or ask for more. (Where are the 115 mm tyres for drag racing, lol).
Even on restrictions UFR and XFR tyres are narrow enough, fwd eating tyres. So yeah my suggestion atleast for now work on 3 GTR cars, thats enough and nice change for us.
I had some RX fun time with this patch. What I miss is longer suspension motion range for rally setup.


Scawen, if you speak about tires. Please consider setting up different tire profile for hybrid and gravel tires. Current low profile gravel tires looks odd.

Test Patch U25: Multiplayer Updates
(364 posts, started )
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