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Test Patch U25: Multiplayer Updates
(364 posts, started )
I think the ideal thing would be if I could get this patch finished and get back to the development version where there is tyre physics to work on.

It's not possible to make a perfect drift car by changing a few values on a racing car in a flawed tyre physics model. It's not going to happen, because impossible things can't happen.

I don't think there's too much point arguing about 10mm which makes such a tiny difference. I believe people were saying (as I found myself) that the FZR was faster than the XRR. I hoped to improve that with this update, by making such a tiny change to the XRR's tyre width, doing the same at front and rear so as not to affect the car's balance.

I am aware that both of these cars have illegal rear tyre width compared with Formula D. But they aren't purpose built drift cars. This is an update to allow people to drift our racing cars, as requested.

But I described this all in a previous post so why am I going through it again?
Quote from ELDemon :Scawen please take a look online and possible make the tires more realistic compared to other real life builds.

Lets talk about feelings, maybe the tires did help with grip but they only made issues with the steering, it's possible to just turn out of drift with how much grip is in this thing and you can do that sitting at full power..... not realistic at all...

He is currently working on a new tire physic so just let him work on that for the development version. You are the only one who’s having this issue you need to test more your settings need to test more your set up. Everybody else who I spoke with was happy the tires are wider
Quote from Scawen :I think the ideal thing would be if I could get this patch finished and get back to the development version where there is tyre physics to work on.

It's not possible to make a perfect drift car by changing a few values on a racing car in a flawed tyre physics model. It's not going to happen, because impossible things can't happen.

I don't think there's too much point arguing about 10mm which makes such a tiny difference. I believe people were saying (as I found myself) that the FZR was faster than the XRR. I hoped to improve that with this update, by making such a tiny change to the XRR's tyre width, doing the same at front and rear so as not to affect the car's balance.

I am aware that both of these cars have illegal rear tyre width compared with Formula D. But they aren't purpose built drift cars. This is an update to allow people to drift our racing cars, as requested.

But I described this all in a previous post so why am I going through it again?

Thank you for your input I’ve been trying to back you up on everything you just said. When you decided to give us back that extra 10 mm in the Drift community and discord we were all saying hooray we made a change we got what we wanted no one is upset in the discord channels
i won't be the one to make car worse just for some extra tire performance i can wait for tire updates in future...
Quote from THE WIZARD DK :U22: can downshift gears in FZR/XRR/UFR but still not in XFR/FXR while having gas on. but its really nice on XRR to be able to . but still hoping for magic to happen with FXR/XFR. with FXR its like "it wants" to shift but it doesnt quite do it.

Hi Wizard, that is intentional as you can't do that in real life.

If you want to downshift or upshift without clutch then you need to come off the power. On some of the cars there is an ignition cut on upshift to help with that. You shouldn't downshift while on full throttle. This is an attempt to simulate reality. I think you need to adjust your driving style.
Quote from THE WIZARD DK :U22: can downshift gears in FZR/XRR/UFR but still not in XFR/FXR while having gas on. but its really nice on XRR to be able to . but still hoping for magic to happen with FXR/XFR. with FXR its like "it wants" to shift but it doesnt quite do it.

when in "default" mode and selecting a setup using R4´s(front+rear)
its almost as good a skating with a loved one on local lake on valentines day.
in Alternate mode this do not apply

It's just because of sequential gearbox, so intended to behave like this
Edit : too slow, fighting with phone correcting my text in french
Quote from Scawen :Hi Wizard, that is intentional as you can't do that in real life.

If you want to downshift or upshift without clutch then you need to come off the power. On some of the cars there is an ignition cut on upshift to help with that. You shouldn't downshift while on full throttle. This is an attempt to simulate reality. I think you need to adjust your driving style.

check replay previous page, + 5:20 take a look
Quote from martin18 :Thank you for your input I’ve been trying to back you up on everything you just said. When you decided to give us back that extra 10 mm in the Drift community and discord we were all saying hooray we made a change we got what we wanted no one is upset in the discord channels

Quote from ELDemon :i won't be the one to make car worse just for some extra tire performance i can wait for tire updates in future...

Thank you guys for your feedback and I am taking note. I'm trying to listen to what everyone says and I'm waiting for more feedback from the racers in case they try a bit of hotlapping in the GTRs alternate config this weekend.

It's really supposed to be a minor update but I did a few things while we had the change as this whole update is incompatible for various reasons.
Quote from ELDemon :check replay previous page, + 5:20 take a look

I'm pretty sure drifting is too easy in LFS compared with real life. It's fun but the truth is it's easier than the real thing.

But 10mm less tyre width doesn't stop that being the case. Anyway I've said all I can say now.

EDIT: I hope to get it closer to the real thing in the new tyre physics. Actually in my current version of development tyre physics I think drifting is too hard compared with reality. But I'll be doing a lot of analysis to try to get things right.
Thank you Scawen I’ll do some hot laps as well with our teams this week end. The I’m also reading up on the other racing patch forums to see any additional info
Quote from Scawen :Thank you guys for your feedback and I am taking note. I'm trying to listen to what everyone says and I'm waiting for more feedback from the racers in case they try a bit of hotlapping in the GTRs alternate config this weekend.

It's really supposed to be a minor update but I did a few things while we had the change as this whole update is incompatible for various reasons.

honestly for me the 270 feel like race tires, good grip on turn exit in the gtr, but not too good for drift.

this car reminds me alot of the xrg, pretty poor until tires reach certain temps and it gets slightly better

here is a replay from the good patch...


timestamp 20 minutes
Attached files
smoothaf.mpr - 6.3 MB - 14 views
Quote from Scawen :I'm pretty sure drifting is too easy in LFS compared with real life. It's fun but the truth is it's easier than the real thing.

But 10mm less tyre width doesn't stop that being the case. Anyway I've said all I can say now.

EDIT: I hope to get it closer to the real thing in the new tyre physics. Actually, in my current version of development tyre physics, I think drifting is too hard compared with reality. But I'll be doing a lot of analysis to try to get things right.

well, let's just compare inputs here:

firstly view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vqRnGXPOwU

watch his steering inputs, very minimal, the car seems to be very predictable, and barely even any input to the wheel.

Xrr feels entirely different than the previous update, you say that it is meant to be a small update that affects very little, but surely you can see from our comments that in fact, it changes quite a lot, can we not give an option in the setup window that allows us to switch between the option of having the extra +10mm or not. I think this is a healthy medium.
Quote from Scawen :
It's not possible to make a perfect drift car by changing a few values on a racing car in a flawed tyre physics model. It's not going to happen, because impossible things can't happen.

I don't think there's too much point arguing about 10mm which makes such a tiny difference. I believe people were saying (as I found myself) that the FZR was faster than the XRR. I hoped to improve that with this update, by making such a tiny change to the XRR's tyre width, doing the same at front and rear so as not to affect the car's balance.

I do not see anything wrong with the FZR being faster in drifting than the XRR, this is the variety in cars that we asked for, including the variety of car behavior and car handling, at competitions in lfs you can always make it necessary to participate in intake restriction or ballast for balanced cars. So no problem here.

I have been a fan and a spectator of drift since of 2009, and for this I know about all the details that take place in the real competitions. Yes, there is a car for Formula D and wheels width with 300mm+, but usually they have 1000hp+ so I don't think this is relevant in our discussion. Imao 265 the width of the rear tire is better for XRR, this width is set to the maximum for example in RDS GP competitions who is the organizer and supporter of FIA IDC 2021. In DMEC you can participate too on 265 wheels and 285 max. And those with a 285 wheel usually have 600+ horsepower to effectively drive on it. So I don't see anything wrong with that. But 275 is ok for me too.

But I am pleased with this reaction to the feedback that I see from the Sсawen, thanks for supporting the drift community!
Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :I do not see anything wrong with the FZR being faster in drifting than the XRR

In this case I was referring to the XRR vs FZR for hard track racing (not drift).

There is very little logic to trying make an ideal drift car with flawed tyre physics, based on a racing car with very few changes. It's not going to happen. But given that I'm only prepared to make one config (in this so-called minor update patch) there is some importance in making the XRR work well against the FZR for hard track racing.

That's why I'm waiting to hear from more people including some hard track hotlap or race results. I have to hear from more people.

I very much hope that I do not need to make another change. I want to release this update and get back to the development version.
Quote from Scawen :In this case I was referring to the XRR vs FZR for hard track racing (not drift).

There is very little logic to trying make an ideal drift car with flawed tyre physics, based on a racing car with very few changes. It's not going to happen. But given that I'm only prepared to make one config (in this so-called minor update patch) there is some importance in making the XRR work well against the FZR for hard track racing.

That's why I'm waiting to hear from more people including some hard track hotlap or race results. I have to hear from more people.

I very much hope that I do not need to make another change. I want to release this update and get back to the development version.

So in the current update you are expecting the xrr to match the current pace of fzr in terms of racing? I can try to arrange some races now to test.

although what I have experienced when racing AS4 with the alternative config ((XRR)), it requires a lot of fine tuning to feel right, sitting on previous race setup (r4 tire setup) but with that said, i have not been able to handle the understeer into corners and oversteer mid corner. Not sure if others have been able to tune out these problems but for me I have not felt a good feeling on track in terms of racing.

I used normal tires on XRR
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(Cpl.Anger) DELETED by Cpl.Anger
Quote from ELDemon :So in the current update you are expecting the xrr to match the current pace of fzr in terms of racing?

No, I was trying to achieve a compromise.

It may be my bad driving or the setup but I find the FZR about 1 second faster round Blackwood than the XRR, both using the alternate config. In the previous version the difference was more like 1.5 seconds.

I think I described all this already though. Maybe I didn't give enough detail.
Quote from Scawen :No, I was trying to achieve a compromise.

It may be my bad driving or the setup but I find the FZR about 1 second faster round Blackwood than the XRR, both using the alternate config. In the previous version the difference was more like 1.5 seconds.

I think I described all this already though. Maybe I didn't give enough detail.

Okay, I see, maybe I missed some of these specifics. Moving forward would it be too much trouble for you to consider another config, one for rallycross and circuit racing the other for us drifters, (with options in drift config for tire specs)

I am happy if you can consider this in future updates once you have the important work out of the way.

I will do some laps at the blackwood to see what I can manage on both cars and post results.
So I find the FZR is much easier to drive on the new config on r4 tires compared to the XRR, also I don't see anyone racing using normal tires, unless at the oval due to the way they perform.

Maybe it is just me but the XRR seems much more difficult to drive quickly. Anyways results:

https://i.imgur.com/DzEzrhf.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ITlvYVs.jpg

I could better the fzr lap very easily, but with the xrr not so easy for me.
Attached files
best.spr - 220.3 KB - 15 views
bbest13.spr - 57.9 KB - 14 views
The setup parameters are reset when the configuration is changed. For example: angle of rotation of wheels, type of rubber. (gtr car)
Quote from aanrus :The setup parameters are reset when the configuration is changed. For example: angle of rotation of wheels, type of rubber. (gtr car)

That is intentional, because the more extreme setup values are only valid with the alternative configuration.
is it possible to integrate Tweaker in game? can u do this?
Replacing the suspension/engines will be fun for cruise servers ... I mean to add alternative versions of all cars, where you can choose the version of the suspension between a double wishbone and McPherson, etc ... change the engine capacity or the number of cylinders

Test Patch U25: Multiplayer Updates
(364 posts, started )
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