Thanks for the replies.

Quote from lfsrm :

...but people think in our modern society happiness and success in life is getting a full time job and consuming as much as your money can afford, which is simply wrong.

But I do understand that some competencies are not compatible with self-employment environment, as many people are forced to find a full time just to survive, sometimes you don't have the luxury of choices.

The normal thing in England seems to be to get the highest paid job possible, even if it means travelling a very long way to work, then buying the most expensive house possible on your salary, at which point you are enslaved to your boss and cannot speak out or defend youself for fear of losing your job.

I believe people should get a job nearer home and allow themselves more time to spend doing the things they really like to do (I don't mean getting drunk). And try to get a home that is within their means, so there is some spare capacity and they can tell their boss to shove it if they are out of order.

I do realise that many people are just trying to survive. But I find it crazy when I see fairly well off people voluntarily enslaving themselves and working stupidly long hours, while other people can't even get a job.

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

Looks like Left-Green coming out, and I have nothing to say about the green movement, although there are a lot of their problems and frankly stupid things of individual activists, but I sincerely hope that socialism communism is not considered the best idea for society as the opposite of capitalism, but capitalism also has many problems,it is capitalist societies that offer the best economic growth, a better standard of living and a better level of happiness among the population of all societies in practice, and I live in Russia and believe me, I heard a lot of arguments from the left discourse, 99% of these people are idiots.
Please be prudent, almost all modern left-wing discourse is contradicted by Marx himself, Marx quote: Practice Is the Sole Criterion of Truth.

Yeah it's a tough one. I really care about the environment and feel it is a great tragedy to cut down every forest and eliminate the amazing animals and plants that live there. So terrible but this is the result of growth.

I really hate economic growth and believe we need 'stability' rather than growth. Growth is based on the idea that everyone's income needs to increase every year for them to be happy. But my income has decreased every year for the last decade and I've found out that is fine, because my happiness is not based on buying things. I do realise that I have been lucky and things would be a big problem if income decreased to the point where I could not pay the bills.

I'm sure that if we globally aimed for stability instead of growth, then we wouldn't deplete resources and increase pollution at an ever increasing rate. We also need to make sure everyone can control their own family sizes because our population is still rapidly increasing, which is crazy on an overpopulated planet.

I'm not entirely sure where I stand in the sense of socialism and so on but I think there is a serious problem with rampant capitalism where people are encouraged to be selfish and keep buying products to fuel the ever increasing economy. There must be regulation, but we need real freedom too, so there can be innovation and the ability to set up interesting businesses, like Live for Speed.

I'm so hyped by the South City screen shot! I can wait, plenty of other games (and of course current LFS) I can play to tide me over :-)

EDIT: Having a local job that I can cycle-commute to is amazing. It really delineates work and personal time better than working from home does, and no horrible trains or queues of cars to get stuck in...

To me, what you described Scawen is more 'consumer society' than simply 'capitalism'. And indeed you are right and free to live the life you choose. But in my opinion, and as Aleksandr_124rus is writting, it is somewhere because of of this economic growth that we, "people from rich countries", are able to choose our way to live our lives (i.e. : in some countries, people working 16h per day to 'survive' may have less opportunities than us to choose a "better life") ... Nothing is fully black and white
Anyway, enjoy developping LFS !

Quote from Scawen :

We also need to make sure everyone can control their own family sizes because our population is still rapidly increasing, which is crazy on an overpopulated planet.

This. I can't understand how irresponsible people become, many can't even manage their own but at the same time dreaming about wives and kids...

Quote from Flotch :

To me, what you described Scawen is more 'consumer society' than simply 'capitalism'. And indeed you are right and free to live the life you choose. But in my opinion, and as Aleksandr_124rus is writting, it is somewhere because of of this economic growth that we, "people from rich countries", are able to choose our way to live our lives (i.e. : in some countries, people working 16h per day to 'survive' may have less opportunities than us to choose a "better life") ... Nothing is fully black and white
Anyway, enjoy developping LFS !

I agree, economic growth has brought many lifestyle benefits, along with the increasing pollution and depletion of natural resources and destruction of habitats.

The problem is we are no longer a small community of humans on a big planet. More growth means more pollution and more resource depletion. We are already far past the limits the planet can sustain, and further economic growth would mean that every year we will consume and pollute even more than the year before, which is indeed happening.

Infinite growth is simply not possible on a finite planet, so regardless of how beneficial economic growth has been in the past, there is a limit to the size of economy that our planet can sustain, and it does seem according to all the evidence that we are already well beyond that limit.

Quote from lfsrm :

This. I can't understand how irresponsible people become, many can't even manage their own but at the same time dreaming about wives and kids...

I do just want to emphasise that I just want it to be possible for all people to be able to manage their own families. It is to do with education, and also provision of family planning services that we already have the benefit of in richer countries.

Quote from Scawen :

I think it works nicely at South City.
The attached shot is of the OLD South City, which I have been using for testing purposes.
This is NOT the updated South City which Eric has been working on.

omg, this is not a dream!

i really loving this!


i know you dont like questions like this scawen, but one day lfs can have a "oficial" modding suport?

Yes, there will be at some point. Probably.

Quote from Scawen :

A lot of people seem to fall for this capitalist idea that the sole purpose of working (or even of life itself) is to make as much money as possible. Well, making money may excite some people and get them out of bed in the morning but for us, work is about trying to create something we like. The priorities aren't about maximising income or getting things done as quickly as possible.

I realise it's very hard to understand for some people, maybe because of the general brainwashing by our monster global civilisation. But there are many faults with the way we humans have organised ourselves. Make yourself aware, have a look around, we are causing an environmental crisis because of our endless quest for growth and profit. It's so bad it is leading to mass extinctions and may well result in our own extinction. So that's how great modern capitalism is. The world would really be a better place if people would calm down and stop trying to earn as much money as possible so they can buy the latest phone and a bigger car and all this ridiculous nonsense. Life is better when you slow down, take time to enjoy the world around you, take time and pride in your work. I don't say these things as a bunch of hollow words to ignore, I really mean that a calmer life is better for the individual and the whole world community.

This must be one of the best things i've read this year, and i must say i agree 100%, i've lost friends who were totally obsessed with money, which is in my opinion one of the dumbest ways to live your life.
Not to mention that most people like to judge others by the amount of money they have, or where they spend it on, the whole thing just causes unnecesary stress to everyone involved.

And it can come from unexpected sources too, i was sick for quite a long time and even now when i'm finally able to work again after many months my parents are still arguing that i should try to get a better paid job.
Eventhough i'm quite content with where i am atm, doing MOT's in a workshop closeby, especially considering my previous situation.

It's really no wonder that there are so many depressed people out there these days.

Capitalism is evil yeah yeah, of course. Capitalism have many problems yes, but Copitalism is always opposed to socialism.. When I know what's in my homeland in fact, not so long ago, government bodies could have shot you just because you have the wrong last name, or kill you (kulak) and take your farm and land from your family simply because you didn’t to give it to a public collective farm, or u can get 10 years of Gulag just for juke about Stalin, Denunciations, Сollectivization, Iron Curtain, State propaganda, 2 millions tortured and killed in Gulag, and etc. This is too long a list to all the great advantages of socialism.

I would just propose to not forget that at modern capitalism people have not yet lived better throughout the history of mankind since that they live now. And that in addition to the developed and the least Developed Countries (LDCs), there are developing and LDCs countries that only dream of living like Britain or America. Excuse me, just sometimes it's just funny to hear how capitalism is Evil because someone has depression, or something similar to conspiracy theories "general brainwashing by our monster global civilisation" wtf..

If you want details or a reasoned discussion just write to my pm, but i propose to close the political topic, otherwise it’s possible to get to the propaganda of socialism here, in my opinion this is not what you would like. And the more I do not want to breed political squabble here.
Peace to everyone.

There's plenty of examples worldwide that show that socialism doesn't include mass imprisonment and torture of the population.

Quote from gu3st :

There's plenty of examples worldwide that show that socialism doesn't include mass imprisonment and torture of the population.

Exactly, that and just because some people have it worse doesn't mean you can't question your own system or problems. There's always room for improvement, everywhere.

We live in the best time to be alive. We are literally in the top .0001% of humans to have EVER lived with regard to living standards etc...

so I think I'll pass on socialism, I don't want to be turning my garden into a furnace anytime soon. Insanity is trying the same thing again and expecting a different result

We have slightly gone off-topic, haven't we?

The screenshot of SO in the dark looks cool. Looking forward to a sneak peak of the new SO.

So this topic switches from some nightmode development to an environmental discussion? Thats quite a twist. But OK I take the bait.. Growth is indeed a problem, human growth. I repeat this quite often by saying it out loud in public area's. Not that it helps anything but it doesnt do any harm to address the real problem once in a while. Too much fckin going around, too many children are being produced.. This is indeed a problem. Several individuals tried to do something about it in the past (and present) by doing mass murdering and even making ethnic selections. But is this a proper solution?

Its certainly controversial. Difficult topic this discussion about our planet health but ye humans is cancer (bad cells which multiply uncontrollably and destroying the good cells in the process). Is socialism the answer? Looking at China (1B -> 16.7%) I would say no. Didn't got any less during the one child policy period and now they even let that rule go since 2013, so start doing the math. This planet will be destroyed sooner or later this is a fact. No point to try to delay this with a couple of years. A human year is nothing in this enormous universe. We are just stardust and also just a tinylittlepinywinybit of stardust. [impressive video]. So; Not. Important. At. All. This planet is not important, nothing to worry about. If it gets totally consumed the whole cycle will start again, so much time. Endless time. Until the Sun blows itself up. Then what would we do? *starts panicking*.

Don't worry. There is only 0,000005 % chance I become a biological daddy.

Does not help much though

Live For Speed to me has always been developed inside William Morris' News From Nowhere. I had read it before helping Scawen and co and i always envisioned him like a character from that book. I love Scawen beyond his technical prowess with C++ and kitchen pipes. An example as a person.

what kind of shit is this?

Quote from F.C.Barcelona :

what kind of shit is this?

stuff you apparently never will understand since this comment.



heres a hint to you though. its called life.

Wizard, I've moved your post to its own thread: https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93706

The post is far too long, maybe 20 times too long or so, has huge unedited quotes, massive pictures and long text. You can't post that way. Have a look at the other people's posts, where they have stayed within reason, and their post does not occupy several pages. You need to keep a post to a few lines, even if you feel passionate about a subject.

Otherwise your posts are reported and we have to deal with them. You need to conform to social norms to some extent and keep the forum readable. I know the thread has gone off topic but there are certain limits we need to keep to. Like if you had something to say you can't walk into a party with a megaphone and just drown out all other noises for half an hour.

Quote from Scawen :

Wizard, I've moved your post to its own thread:
https://www.lfs.net/forum/thread/93706

ah okay. was wondering what went on there. i hear you no worries. i knew it didnt belong here but i felt like letting that out to reply to what you said aswell. thx for moving it instead deleting it.

Quote from Intrepid :

We live in the best time to be alive. We are literally in the top .0001% of humans to have EVER lived with regard to living standards etc...

To some extent (and this is an exaggeration) we are like a plague that is reaching the end of its food source. I agree we in rich countries have a very high living standard but this is certainly not the case worldwide. I think most people agree that there are billions of people who really need a better standard of living and any reasonable person would want that for them. But it is well known that if they all consumed as much as the rich countries, our problem would be many times worse. Something has to give. Our consumption of resources and production of pollution is going to have to be massively reduced here in the west. And it's not a matter of fitting some new light bulbs and buying an electric car.

By the way, to be clear, I am not suggesting heavy socialism or communism, in case anyone thought that. As far as I can see, capitalism and socialism are growthist ideologies and we need something new.

I really wish that everyone watched all the documentaries by David Attenborough in recent years. I think it would be impossible for people not to understand the challenges we face, if you watch these programs. They are absolutely not some kind of lefty propaganda, that would be a ridiculous suggestion. They are shows about wildlife but these days they always show some of the terrible effects humans are having on habitats. The level of the destruction will not only affect wildlife and is already affecting millions of people. The current trajectory is for it to get a lot worse. So the argument "life is good, we must be doing something right, let's carry on" is more a case of burying your head in the sand. It's not just about *us* - many of of us think it's worth leaving a habitable environment for our children, grandchildren and so on.

Quote from cargame.nl :

...too many children are being produced.. This is indeed a problem. Several individuals tried to do something about it in the past (and present) by doing mass murdering and even making ethnic selections. But is this a proper solution?

Well there is such a thing as 'family planning' and 'contraceptives' which allow people to have sex but not multiply their families.

It is quite obviously possible to reduce the rate of population growth (to zero preferably) by people voluntarily controlling their birth rate. Mass murder is a ridiculous suggestion and it's quite annoying that people bring that up, when we are simply calling for better education for people worldwide.

Quote from KiDCoDEa :

Live For Speed to me has always been developed inside William Morris' News From Nowhere. I had read it before helping Scawen and co and i always envisioned him like a character from that book. I love Scawen beyond his technical prowess with C++ and kitchen pipes. An example as a person.

Thanks for the kind words. I found that book is freely downloadable and I've started reading it and it is quite funny!

Can't wait, it's going to feel like a new game and it's going to be way more fun and way more intence!

This the most anticipated update in years, we are all looking forward to!

Quote from MKRYDR :

Can't wait, it's going to feel like a new game and it's going to be way more fun and way more intence!

This the most anticipated update in years, we are all looking forward to!

you are talking about vws, aren’t you

More seriously, have we specified that we are ready for any kind of test patch ? even demo content only related ?

I remember when the developers of Spintires released a tech (developer version) demo with a limited tracks and vehicles. I wish we could try XF or XR on Autocross (only) with the new physics and graphics system (fixed day time). If not, take your time - we already know that the result will be amazing.

We are really far from a test version yet!

On my side there is still work to do on the graphics. I'm working on a bloom effect right now. I still need to improve the baked lighting rendering system to reduce some ugly vertex lighting issues you don't see too much of in my well-placed screenshots.

Then I still need to work on the physics and improve the security of the master server protocol.

Meanwhile Eric is continuing with South City, and still needs to finish Kyoto and update Fern Bay.

Sounds all like music to my ears Scawen.

Just wish I could make u guys go faster

Quote from Scawen :

I'm working on a bloom effect right now.

Nice, I hope we could see some of it sooner rather than later

Quote from Scawen :

I still need to improve the baked lighting rendering system to reduce some ugly vertex lighting issues you don't see too much of in my well-placed screenshots.

Vertex lighting can be really cheap but also so hard to have perfect everywhere (unless you have a really high and constant vertex density (which never happens sadly ).

Do you have a way to manually tweak some spots for you or Eric to fix if needed ?


BTW, I just had a that rare case of weird automatic gearbox glitch, your fix worked properly

Quote from Scawen :

We are really far from a test version yet!

On my side there is still work to do on the graphics. I'm working on a bloom effect right now. I still need to improve the baked lighting rendering system to reduce some ugly vertex lighting issues you don't see too much of in my well-placed screenshots.

at this rate, the test version to come will be called LFS 2.0 ... even if the 1.0 has not yet been used

Quote from Scawen :

Then I still need to work on the physics and improve the security of the master server protocol.

Meanwhile Eric is continuing with South City, and still needs to finish Kyoto and update Fern Bay.

Amen